Thrall and orc blood-lust.

[Dreknar20]

Well they dont normally go to war for no reason, which is why they left the Dranaei alone for so many years, though they do love a good fight and a chance to show their strength.

The only reason you need for conquest is ambition and /or greed

This whole "well they didn't do anything" is such idealistic nativity

[Nathreim]

Totally the same thing:

They invaded their lands and desecrated a sacred site what do you expect?

The Dwarves destroyed a Troll Empire and they and the Gnomes have hunted the local Trolls for hundreds of years.

[Dreknar20]

They are warmongers, not good guys.

you say that if those are polar opposites

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Your version of bad is so hilarious. Orcs: Invasion of Azeroth, destruction of Stormwind, destruction of Stromgarde, destruction of Tol Barad, destruction of Dalaran, destruction of Stratholme, destruction of Nethergarde, enslavement of Alexstrasza, attacking Quel'thalas borderlands, perversion of Human knights to create Death Knights, destruction of Karabor, destruction of Shattrath and the list goes on and on and on. Remember that time the Humans put the Orcs into PRISON camps, yeah thats totally on the level.

I feel like he wrote death camps to somehow make it seem worse... what else would you do with them? I don;t think they could have used the portal to return the orcs to Draenor...

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They invaded their lands and desecrated a sacred site what do you expect?

The Dwarves destroyed a Troll Empire and they and the Gnomes have hunted the local Trolls for hundreds of years.

'Invaded" as in.. set up camp after being exiled and then immediately attacked? Oh!!! THE POOR MISUNDERSTOOD TROLLS!

[Shaqthefat]

Your version of bad is so hilarious. Orcs: Invasion of Azeroth, destruction of Stormwind, destruction of Stromgarde, destruction of Tol Barad, destruction of Dalaran, destruction of Stratholme, destruction of Nethergarde, enslavement of Alexstrasza, attacking Quel'thalas borderlands, perversion of Human knights to create Death Knights, destruction of Karabor, destruction of Shattrath and the list goes on and on and on. Remember that time the Humans put the Orcs into PRISON camps, yeah thats totally on the level.

Lol. Everything you just listed was while being slaves to the Burning Legion. Total counts to the race acting on its own will. If we were to take a look at Jaina and what she has done it would be a different story considering she wasn't enslaved by the Burning Legion, so lets do that.

She was going to drown Orgimmar wanting the orphans to be their so they couldn't grow up to take up arms.

Purged Dalaran

She also refused to work with the horde to defeat the Burning Legion after the Alliance proves how stupid it is in the Broken Shore

[Dreknar20]

Garrosh was told of his legacy and believed the hype. He was raised in a culture that valued strength, and was presented with an enemy in the alliance.

you can throw in anger at the Horde losing to them in the Second War on top of that

[Nathreim]

I feel like he wrote death camps to somehow make it seem worse... what else would you do with them? I don;t think they could have used the portal to return the orcs to Draenor...

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'Invaded" as in.. set up camp after being exiled and then immediately attacked? Oh!!! THE POOR MISUNDERSTOOD TROLLS!

They set up camp first in Tirisfal and went unmolested its only when they went east into Troll lands that they were attacked. They Elves were not out on a weekend camping trip they marched in force on the Trolls with the intent of conquering territory.

[TheDestinatus]

Lol. Everything you just listed was while being slaves to the Burning Legion. Total counts to the race acting on its own will. If we were to take a look at Jaina and what she has done it would be a different story considering she wasn't enslaved by the Burning Legion, so lets do that.

She was going to drown Orgimmar wanting the orphans to be their so they couldn't grow up to take up arms.

Purged Dalaran

She also refused to work with the horde to defeat the Burning Legion after the Alliance proves how stupid it is in the Broken Shore

Had the Orcs never invaded Azeroth their would be thousands upon thousand more soldiers, they didn't need the Orcs to fight the Burning Legion, the shear numbers the Orcs have killed during the first and second war, killing off nearly 6 entire nations worth of Humans, not to mention Dwarf, Elf and Gnome casualties. Azeroth had already dealt with the Legion once and could have done so again. The Nightelves took the brunt of the fight the first time around, the Humans would have made up the difference.

Had the Orcs not invaded their would have been no Lich King, no scourge, and therefore no forsaken. Literally everything bad that is happening right now is because of their membership in the burning legion, and when given the chance to be seperate from that group THEY CONTINUED KILLING THE DENIZENS OF AZEROTH. They have been killing people, elves etc etc from the moment they got here and they haven't stopped.

[Dreknar20]

conquering territory.

these day in age conquest is generally considered "old-fashioned" or "immoral", even if its what best for your nation.

You can thank America for that.

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They have been killing people, elves etc etc from the moment they got here and they haven't stopped.

everyones been killing everyone. Whats the big deal?

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Had the Orcs never invaded Azeroth their would be thousands upon thousand more soldiers

not according to the bronze dragons

[Durgtok]

Had the Orcs never invaded Azeroth their would be thousands upon thousand more soldiers, they didn't need the Orcs to fight the Burning Legion, the shear numbers the Orcs have killed during the first and second war, killing off nearly 6 entire nations worth of Humans, not to mention Dwarf, Elf and Gnome casualties. Azeroth had already dealt with the Legion once and could have done so again. The Nightelves took the brunt of the fight the first time around, the Humans would have made up the difference.

Had the Orcs not invaded their would have been no Lich King, no scourge, and therefore no forsaken. Literally everything bad that is happening right now is because of their membership in the burning legion, and when given the chance to be seperate from that group THEY CONTINUED KILLING THE DENIZENS OF AZEROTH. They have been killing people, elves etc etc from the moment they got here and they haven't stopped.

If we're playing THAT game, then it was the Burning Legion's fault all of those things happened, not the orcs. They were the masterminds behind all of that, the orcish race was just another one of their many disposable manipulated pawns.

[TheDestinatus]

these day in age conquest is generally considered "old-fashioned" or "immoral", even if its what best for your nation.

You can thank America for that.

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everyones been killing everyone. Whats the big deal?

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not according to the bronze dragons

So if the Orcs never invaded, there would be less people than right now.... alright mate.

[Melsiren]

I don't, the Blood Elves/High Elves are just as bad as the Orcs. The highborne as just as accountable for working with the Burning Legion as the Orcs are.

You're aware the playable Blood Elves and "High" Elves are decedents of Highborne that fought against the Burning Legion right?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

They set up camp first in Tirisfal and went unmolested its only when they went east into Troll lands that they were attacked. They Elves were not out on a weekend camping trip they marched in force on the Trolls with the intent of conquering territory.

Strangely not how I've read that part of the story...

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If we're playing THAT game, then it was the Burning Legion's fault all of those things happened, not the orcs. They were the masterminds behind all of that, the orcish race was just another one of their many disposable manipulated pawns.

Orcs choice, bruh.

[Dreknar20]

So if the Orcs never invaded, there would be less people than right now.... alright mate.

cause everyone would be living all lovey dovey like an episode from Cartoon Network?

Bronzies stated how in an alternate timelines without the Dark Portal the human nations would be fighting various wars against each other and becoming worse off.

[Shaqthefat]

Had the Orcs never invaded Azeroth their would be thousands upon thousand more soldiers, they didn't need the Orcs to fight the Burning Legion, the shear numbers the Orcs have killed during the first and second war, killing off nearly 6 entire nations worth of Humans, not to mention Dwarf, Elf and Gnome casualties. Azeroth had already dealt with the Legion once and could have done so again. The Nightelves took the brunt of the fight the first time around, the Humans would have made up the difference.

Had the Orcs not invaded their would have been no Lich King, no scourge, and therefore no forsaken. Literally everything bad that is happening right now is because of their membership in the burning legion, and when given the chance to be seperate from that group THEY CONTINUED KILLING THE DENIZENS OF AZEROTH. They have been killing people, elves etc etc from the moment they got here and they haven't stopped.

LOL. If the orcs never would have gone to Azeroth the planet would have been destroyed by the Silithid and Qiraj. Even if they did somehow manage to push into Ahn'Qiraj and kill C'thun without the dragon flights, Alliance, and Horde at the gate, there would be no world shaman to use the dragon soul to kill death wing.

[Dreknar20]

Strangely not how I've read that part of the story...

Conquest is what made the human and elven kingdoms into major power

For a nation to gain, they have to take

[TheDestinatus]

You're aware the playable Blood Elves and "High" Elves are decedents of Highborne that fought against the Burning Legion right?

They are the reason the Burning Legion was drawn to Azeroth in the first place. They may have fought against them in their own way once they realised what they had did but they are responsible for the Legion coming. They refused to give up Arcane power, the magic users amongst their ranks were the ones that helped summon the greater demons in the first place. They are no different to the Orcs, granted none of the Blood/High Elves were alive when this all went down, but there are still Highborne alive that were around during that time.

Just watch the latest Illidan in game story where he starts killing his own mages to use their power against the demons.

[Melsiren]

They are the reason the Burning Legion was drawn to Azeroth in the first place. They may have fought against them in their own way once they realised what they had did but they are responsible for the Legion coming. They refused to give up Arcane power, the magic users amongst their ranks were the ones that helped summon the greater demons in the first place. They are no different to the Orcs, granted none of the Blood/High Elves were alive when this all went down, but there are still Highborne alive that were around during that time.

Just watch the latest Illidan in game story where he starts killing his own mages to use their power against the demons.

And I believe Illidan is wrong for one, but to hold the living Elves accountable for their ancestors actions -who redeemed themselves- is absurd.


I think you forget the power that Sargeras has to make you believe he will make your people great for going along with it. The surviving Elves today should be viewed more as the Draenei than the Orcs.

[TheDestinatus]

And I believe Illidan is wrong for one, but to hold the living Elves accountable for their ancestors actions -who redeemed themselves- is absurd.


I think you forget the power that Sargeras has to make you believe he will make your people great for going along with it. The surviving Elves today should be viewed more as the Draenei than the Orcs.

Well you can put them to the side if you like, this conversation was about the Orcs anyway. Only drifted that direction because people were trying to use other races actions to justify the Orcs.

[Nathreim]

these day in age conquest is generally considered "old-fashioned" or "immoral", even if its what best for your nation.

You can thank America for that.

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everyones been killing everyone. Whats the big deal?

I think WWII did more to form the negative opinions of conquest than what the US did to the natives.

Its only a big deal because the Alliance act holier than thou despite being guilty of the same crimes Orcs are.