Why do people...?

[Al Gorefiend]

Garithos was the voice of the alliance and should have been punished for his actions.

Innocent people regardless of race or where they come from should not be punished for the actions of others. A Sunreaver going about his life is not guilty for the actions or inactions of the divine bell Sunreaver or Aethas. Who did the right thing of shutting up because the other action would have caused needless Sin'dorei deaths. Unless you come up with a plan that Aethas could have done which lead to 0 (not even 1) Sin'dorei death at the hands of either Jaina or Garrosh then you have no leg to stand on.

Don't claim neutrality and claim membership of the Horde at the same time? Horde is a collective, the blood of every Alliance killed by Horde is on the hands of every single one of it's members. Blood Elves are no less Horde than Orc, and plenty of innocent Orcs died to Alliance because of the actions of 1. Innocent dwarves only interested in digging up treasure died to the reliquary. Where is their justice? Maybe Belloc Brightblade needs to become a raid boss.

[Zulkhan]

Silver Covenant and Sunreavers were both wrong to swear their loyalties to two factions at war then at the same time proclaim neutrality within the Kirin Tor, very counterproductive. Y'know Night Elves, Worgen, Tauren and Trolls have no problem coexisting within neutral factions like Cenarion Circle regardless of their allegiances to their race. I guess High/Blood Elves just aren't blessed with the same kind of civility?

The people within the Cenarion Circle or the Earthen Ring are still loyal to their factions. No one can ignore from where people come from and to which faction they're aligned to. But in Dalaran this caused nothing but trouble because:

-Vereesa and her Silver Covenant shown nothing but hostility towards the Sunreavers, from the very moment they joined the city;
-The Kirin Tor thrown their "neutrality" into a very muddy field the moment they began to interfere with faction conflicts, even more with Jaina in charge;
-This muddy, Alliance-leaning position motivated Garrosh to infiltrate spies within the Horde-aligned Sunreavers, in order to be a step ahead of the Kirin Tor. It worked when Theramore got obliterated as it worked with the Divine Bell.

Well, I certainly don't feel like the Sunreavers didn't deserve it.

They should have been exiled at most. Not during the 5.1, the very moment Jaina came to power. Not because they deserved it but because there was no point for the Sunreavers to stay the moment the Kirin Tor began to mark Garrosh (and the Horde he commanded, inevitably) as their enemy. The risk of infiltrations was high, Thalen Songweaver proved it, and it could have only got higher as the Kirin Tor's stance against Garrosh became more decisive. Of course the Sunreavers would have had an hard time in agreeing with such reasoning because most of them had nothing to do with Garrosh and had no reason to mess with the Kirin Tor. But the council should have made clear the logic behind such a reasoning and make them see their point. They could have even guaranteed a "welcome back" once Garrosh wasn't a problem anymore.

Instead, they did nothing and just hoped the same shit wouldn't happen again. Foolish to say the least.

The real problem though is that Jaina acted without proper evidence to condemn the whole of the Sunreavers as "traitors". And is not like she asked anyone's opinion on that (like the head of the Council is supposed to do with her fellow members). Evidence about the traitor should have been found, the traitor in question punished and the Sunreavers invited to leave with the reasoning I mentioned above, not labeling them all as traitors and treat them as such because you're too emotionally unstable to think straight and follow a more reasonable approach.

Innocent dwarves only interested in digging up treasure died to the reliquary.

As much as I like Dwarves they're not deserving of any pity either. When it comes to digging shit around they don't care about invade other people's lands, as their incursions in Mulgore, Barrens and Alterac Valley proved.

[Al Gorefiend]

The real problem though is that Jaina acted without proper evidence to condemn the whole of the Sunreavers as "traitors". And is not like she asked anyone's opinion on that (like the head of the Council is supposed to do with her fellow members). Evidence about the traitor should have been found, the traitor in question punished and the Sunreavers invited to leave with the reasoning I mentioned above, not labeling them all as traitors and treat them as such because you're too emotionally unstable to think straight and follow a more reasonable approach.

The Sunreavers should have renounced faction ties if they chose to continue operating in a neutral city and even more so in a city leaning more towards the Alliance. There wouldn't have been a mass slaughter if they weren't sleeping with the enemy and the enemy's enemies. If the Sunreavers chose to refer to themselves as Kirin Tor, they'd be within jurisdiction to help both Alliance and Horde, but show no interest in helping Alliance at all but rather only themselves. After the Nexus War ended and the Lich King defeated the Sunreavers had no reason to continue existing as an entity separate of the Kirin Tor or as a foil to the Silver Covenant. Truth is, Sunreavers had no interest in bettering Dalaran - they just wanted eyes and ears in the city of mages to snoop around and continue living in a place they feel entitled to.

[Kallisto]

The people within the Cenarion Circle or the Earthen Ring are still loyal to their factions. No one can ignore from where people come from and to which faction they're aligned to. But in Dalaran this caused nothing but trouble because:

-Vereesa and her Silver Covenant shown nothing but hostility towards the Sunreavers, from the very moment they joined the city;
-The Kirin Tor thrown their "neutrality" into a very muddy field the moment they began to interfere with faction conflicts, even more with Jaina in charge;
-This muddy, Alliance-leaning position motivated Garrosh to infiltrate spies within the Horde-aligned Sunreavers, in order to be a step ahead of the Kirin Tor. It worked when Theramore got obliterated as it worked with the Divine Bell.



They should have been exiled at most. Not during the 5.1, the very moment Jaina came to power. Not because they deserved it but because there was no point for the Sunreavers to stay the moment the Kirin Tor began to mark Garrosh (and the Horde he commanded, inevitably) as their enemy. The risk of infiltrations was high, Thalen Songweaver proved it, and it could have only got higher as the Kirin Tor's stance against Garrosh became more decisive. Of course the Sunreavers would have had an hard time in agreeing with such reasoning because most of them had nothing to do with Garrosh and had no reason to mess with the Kirin Tor. But the council should have made clear the logic behind such a reasoning and make them see their point. They could have even guaranteed a "welcome back" once Garrosh wasn't a problem anymore.

Instead, they did nothing and just hoped the same shit wouldn't happen again. Foolish to say the least.

The real problem though is that Jaina acted without proper evidence to condemn the whole of the Sunreavers as "traitors". And is not like she asked anyone's opinion on that (like the head of the Council is supposed to do with her fellow members). Evidence about the traitor should have been found, the traitor in question punished and the Sunreavers invited to leave with the reasoning I mentioned above, not labeling them all as traitors and treat them as such because you're too emotionally unstable to think straight and follow a more reasonable approach.

No the elves shouldn't have been asked to leave. They should have been left alone. Even in a war you don't say to someone who is likely hundreds of years older than you living in a city they could have been in since before your grandfather was conceived "Fuck off out of this city." you let them live their lives as they have done.

It's innocent till proven guilty.

[Zulkhan]

The Sunreavers should have renounced faction ties if they chose to continue operating in a neutral city and even more so in a city leaning more towards the Alliance.

This proposal is literally absurd. The Sunreavers could never renounce their faction ties because they come from Silvermoon, from Quel'Thalas, a kingdom aligned with the Horde. They have friends and family there. No matter how much they tried to paint themselves neutral, they would have remained inevitably in contact with those people, making infiltrations an inevitable possibility. The Silver Covenant too would have kept their distrustful and hostile views, no matter how much "Horde" or not they claimed to be.

If the Sunreavers chose to refer to themselves as Kirin Tor, they'd be within jurisdiction to help both Alliance and Horde, but show no interest in helping Alliance at all but rather only themselves.

Except the Sunreavers were Kirin Tor. Aethas Sunreaver was even member of the Council of Six. His vote guaranteed Jaina her place at the top of Dalaran, irony of all ironies.

If they never fully integrated as a whole is because of the Silver Covenant's stance against them, stance that caused the "division" of the city back in WotLK. Aethas's fanboying over the Kirin Tor was nauseating at times.

After the Nexus War ended and the Lich King defeated the Sunreavers had no reason to continue existing as an entity separate of the Kirin Tor or as a foil to the Silver Covenant.

Problem is, the Silver Covenant are the ones that served as foil for the Sunreavers, not the other way around. That was their whole purpose. The Sunreavers, on the other hand, merely wanted to rejoin Dalaran.

Truth is, Sunreavers had no interest in bettering Dalaran - they just wanted eyes and ears in the city of mages to snoop around and continue living in a place they feel entitled to.

Considering who their leader was (Aethas) this claim is much improbable and unsubstantiated as you could get. While is true that Blood Elves feel somewhat entitled to it (and not without reason) those who followed Aethas did because they indeed wanted to be part of the Kirin Tor again. Those who didn't like the Kirin Tor (like Rommath) stayed at home. And none of their actions as a whole proved the contrary. Unless you want me to believe that they loved the Horde over the Kirin Tor, definitely not the case of elves like Aethas.

No the elves shouldn't have been asked to leave. They should have been left alone. Even in a war you don't say to someone who is likely hundreds of years older than you living in a city they could have been in since before your grandfather was conceived "Fuck off out of this city." you let them live their lives as they have done.

It's innocent till proven guilty.

Except the Sunreavers re-joined Dalaran only recently. Their amount of entitlement can't change the fact that Dalaran is a city almost entirely ruled by humans and certain politics are up to them. Fact is, the Sunreaver group was inevitably going to be extremely vulnerable to infiltrations with Dalaran taking a stronger stance against Garrosh. When you have a glaring example like Thalen Songweaver thrown on your face, you can't ignore the issue.

[Kallisto]

This proposal is literally absurd. The Sunreavers could never renounce their faction ties because they come from Silvermoon, from Quel'Thalas, a kingdom aligned with the Horde. They have friends and family there. No matter how much they tried to paint themselves neutral, they would have remained inevitably in contact with those people, making infiltrations an inevitable possibility. The Silver Covenant too would have kept their distrustful and hostile views, no matter how much "Horde" or not they claimed to be.



Except the Sunreavers were Kirin Tor. If they never fully integrated is because of the Silver Covenant's stance against them, stance that caused the "division" of the city back in WotLK. Aethas's fanboying over the Kirin Tor was nauseating at times.

After the Nexus War ended and the Lich King defeated the Sunreavers had no reason to continue existing as an entity separate of the Kirin Tor or as a foil to the Silver Covenant.



Considering who their leader was (Aethas) this claim is much improbable and unsubstantiated as you could get. While is true that Blood Elves feel somewhat entitled to it (and not without reason) those who followed Aethas did because they indeed wanted to be part of the Kirin Tor again. And none of their actions as a whole proved the contrary. Unless you want me to believe that they loved the Horde over the Kirin Tor, definitely not the case of elves like Aethas.



Except the Sunreavers re-joined Dalaran only recently. Their amount of entitlement can't change the fact that Dalaran is a city almost entirely ruled by humans and certain politics are up to them. Fact is, the Sunreaver group was inevitably going to be extremely vulnerable to infiltrations with Dalaran taking a stronger stance against Garrosh. When you have a glaring example like Thalen Songweaver thrown on your face, you can't ignore the issue.

While yes the Sunrevers were as a faction recent additions I doubt those that joined were Elves with no prior affiliation to the city. Also Thalen was just one elf. At no point should anyone suffer for his crime. Even exile is saying that the others are guilty when they are not.

The only acceptable thing would be to punish the guilty, leave the innocent.

[Felixon]

People will always bitch about something,so why would you care about it? If she's your favourite lore character,so be it,it's your right. When she tried to be neutral, people were blaming her for holding hands with Thrall. When orcs destroyed her home and she started to hate them, people start whining about the fact,that she is racist,bitch and bla bla bla. Why would you care?

[Mehrunes]

Blood Elf fans who think their race din do nuffin' to deserve anything.

Weirdly enough that sounds a lot like Jaina fans when discussing the mana bomb.

Silver Covenant and Sunreavers were both wrong to swear their loyalties to two factions at war then at the same time proclaim neutrality within the Kirin Tor, very counterproductive. Y'know Night Elves, Worgen, Tauren and Trolls have no problem coexisting within neutral factions like Cenarion Circle regardless of their allegiances to their race. I guess High/Blood Elves just aren't blessed with the same kind of civility?

Except the same can be said about Jaina. And that happened before ONE Sunreaver did so. Apparently following the footsteps of the leader of the Kirin Tor is also wrong. Jaina, so very consistent.

Don't claim neutrality and claim membership of the Horde at the same time? Horde is a collective, the blood of every Alliance killed by Horde is on the hands of every single one of it's members. Blood Elves are no less Horde than Orc, and plenty of innocent Orcs died to Alliance because of the actions of 1. Innocent dwarves only interested in digging up treasure died to the reliquary. Where is their justice? Maybe Belloc Brightblade needs to become a raid boss.

The hell is this collective responsibility nonsense? How are the actions of the Reliquary relevant to the Sunreavers? Then the actions of Alliance are on Jaina's hands too, so she should stop acting surprised that Theramore got nuked. Especially since the Alliance actions that led to this are specifically her actions.

The Sunreavers should have renounced faction ties if they chose to continue operating in a neutral city and even more so in a city leaning more towards the Alliance. There wouldn't have been a mass slaughter if they weren't sleeping with the enemy and the enemy's enemies. If the Sunreavers chose to refer to themselves as Kirin Tor, they'd be within jurisdiction to help both Alliance and Horde, but show no interest in helping Alliance at all but rather only themselves. After the Nexus War ended and the Lich King defeated the Sunreavers had no reason to continue existing as an entity separate of the Kirin Tor or as a foil to the Silver Covenant. Truth is, Sunreavers had no interest in bettering Dalaran - they just wanted eyes and ears in the city of mages to snoop around and continue living in a place they feel entitled to.

Once again, the Alliance's definition of "neutral" strikes to kick them in the balls. And Sunreavers chose to refer to them as Sunreavers. Dalaran did not object. And that didn't stop them from being a part of the Kirin Tor. And what jurisdiction can there be to help the playable factions if Dalaran is neutral? Why should the Sunreavers show interest in helping the faction that's at war with their homeland? When did Dalaran show any interest whatsoever in helping the Horde? Why should have Sunreavers stopped existing as a group when Dalaran allowed them to? Since when are Sunreavers a "foil to the Silver Covenant" when it's exactly the other way around? And I wonder what betterment of Dalaran was involved when Rhonin or Jaina picked the side of the Alliance during the Alliance-Horde war.

And in what language and/or using what kind of broken logic was this post supposed to be a counterargument to the point that Jaina acted without evidence and authority?

Except the Sunreavers re-joined Dalaran only recently. Their amount of entitlement can't change the fact that Dalaran is a city almost entirely ruled by humans and certain politics are up to them. Fact is, the Sunreaver group was inevitably going to be extremely vulnerable to infiltrations with Dalaran taking a stronger stance against Garrosh. When you have a glaring example like Thalen Songweaver thrown on your face, you can't ignore the issue.

Well, once she became leader of the Kirin Tor she should have done something about it instead of "no can do" attitude that led to the next Sunreaver agent.

[Al Gorefiend]

Weirdly enough that sounds a lot like Jaina fans when discussing the mana bomb.




Except the same can be said about Jaina. And that happened before ONE Sunreaver did so. Apparently following the footsteps of the leader of the Kirin Tor is also wrong. Jaina, so very consistent.




The hell is this collective responsibility nonsense? How are the actions of the Reliquary relevant to the Sunreavers? Then the actions of Alliance are on Jaina's hands too, so she should stop acting surprised that Theramore got nuked. Especially since the Alliance actions that led to this are specifically her actions.




Once again, the Alliance's definition of "neutral" strikes to kick them in the balls. And Sunreavers chose to refer to them as Sunreavers. Dalaran did not object. And that didn't stop them from being a part of the Kirin Tor. And what jurisdiction can there be to help the playable factions if Dalaran is neutral? Why should the Sunreavers show interest in helping the faction that's at war with their homeland? When did Dalaran show any interest whatsoever in helping the Horde? Why should have Sunreavers stopped existing as a group when Dalaran allowed them to? Since when are Sunreavers a "foil to the Silver Covenant" when it's exactly the other way around? And I wonder what betterment of Dalaran was involved when Rhonin or Jaina picked the side of the Alliance during the Alliance-Horde war.

And in what language and/or using what kind of broken logic was this post supposed to be a counterargument to the point that Jaina acted without evidence and authority?




Well, once she became leader of the Kirin Tor she should have done something about it instead of "no can do" attitude that led to the next Sunreaver agent.

You're assuming my post is trying to show Jaina's actions in a justified and positive light. I'm not saying she should have, but the Sunreavers weren't so innocent that they didn't have this coming. Only a matter of time until the war spilled over into their neighborhood - a war THEY have been contributing to with every passing day. It's like Blood Elves want to call themselves Horde when the Horde is doing good things then say "oh, we're neutral man you can't blame us for Garrosh" when the Horde is doing bad things. Which is it, Sunreavers?

Collective responsibility. If Jaina claims she is a member of the Alliance, then she has indirectly supported every action the Alliance has performed. I don't see how this is a hard thing to grasp. If the Horde wasn't a collective, why would the Horde ever bother to enforce code of conduct? Why not just let Sylvanas do her thing, then when she does something terrible just say "not us bro, she's only Horde on Tuesdays"

[Zulkhan]

While yes the Sunrevers were as a faction recent additions I doubt those that joined were Elves with no prior affiliation to the city. Also Thalen was just one elf. At no point should anyone suffer for his crime. Even exile is saying that the others are guilty when they are not.

Their "prior affiliation" matters relatively. There was a growing conflict of interests and while 99% of the Sunreavers had no intention to mess with the Kirin Tor, the 1% who had such intentions was going to hide behind the 99% to further their plots undisturbed.

This is not about accusations or justice, is about take reasonable actions towards a problem. And the Sunreavers, due to their affiliations and the delicate situation going on, were a problem.

The only acceptable thing would be to punish the guilty, leave the innocent.

Or you prevent such situations to happen in the first place, rather than punish "the guilty". Punishing people achieves little when the damage is already done.

Well, once she became leader of the Kirin Tor she should have done something about it instead of "no can do" attitude that led to the next Sunreaver agent.

"No can do" is Jaina's battle cry.

You're assuming my post is trying to show Jaina's actions in a justified and positive light. I'm not saying she should have, but the Sunreavers weren't so innocent that they didn't have this coming. Only a matter of time until the war spilled over into their neighborhood - a war THEY have been contributing to with every passing day. It's like Blood Elves want to call themselves Horde when the Horde is doing good things then say "oh, we're neutral man you can't blame us for Garrosh" when the Horde is doing bad things. Which is it, Sunreavers?

Collective responsibility. If Jaina claims she is a member of the Alliance, then she has indirectly supported every action the Alliance has performed. I don't see how this is a hard thing to grasp. If the Horde wasn't a collective, why would the Horde ever bother to enforce code of conduct? Why not just let Sylvanas do her thing, then when she does something terrible just say "not us bro, she's only Horde on Tuesdays"

I understand you don't like Blood Elves but you're grasping on dubious logic here. "Collective responsibility" is applicable when the collective is aware and complicit of their leader's decisions. You can't deem them responsible of the actions of betrayers though. Hell, they're not even responsible of Aethas' own decision of turning a blind eye to the theft of the Divine Bell because they had zero awareness of that. Treating them all as "enemies" and "traitors" when they absolutely did nothing as a whole to be treated as such is simply idiotic and unfair. The Sunreavers may have been affiliated with the Horde but they did nothing as an organization to favor the Horde over the Kirin Tor, they merely granted sanctuary to Horde representatives in Dalaran, not much differently from how the Silver Covenant did with the Alliance.

I don't see why the Sunreavers have to be persecuted as a whole because of that while is O.K.A.Y when the Alliance treat Dalaran as their personal playground.

[Mehrunes]

Or you prevent such situations to happen in the first place, rather than punish "the guilty". Punishing people achieves little when the damage is already done.

The funny part (in relation to Jaina's tantrum) is the only party that suffered any real damage from the Horde's theft of the Divine Bell was the Horde.

"No can do" is Jaina's battle cry.

That reminds me of when Blizzard couldn't think of Alliance battle cry during a Blizzcon. A missed opportunity here. Two-folds even, since it could refer to making the battle cry in general too.

[Mirishka]

Why do people always hate on Jaina Proudmoore so much she's my favorite lore character alliance-neutral side people keep saying she's gonna be a dreadlord or turn evil i really hope this is not the case cause i don't ever wanna have to relive that nightmare of killing her again even though the echo of her in end time wasn't really her it felt like it tore me apart.. so yeah i kinda hope we never have to kill her or any of my favorite other lore characters.

I'll answer your question with a question, why do people make annoying "Why do people..." topics instead of just asking the damn question?

[Mehrunes]

You're assuming my post is trying to show Jaina's actions in a justified and positive light. I'm not saying she should have, but the Sunreavers weren't so innocent that they didn't have this coming. Only a matter of time until the war spilled over into their neighborhood - a war THEY have been contributing to with every passing day. It's like Blood Elves want to call themselves Horde when the Horde is doing good things then say "oh, we're neutral man you can't blame us for Garrosh" when the Horde is doing bad things. Which is it, Sunreavers?

Collective responsibility. If Jaina claims she is a member of the Alliance, then she has indirectly supported every action the Alliance has performed. I don't see how this is a hard thing to grasp. If the Horde wasn't a collective, why would the Horde ever bother to enforce code of conduct? Why not just let Sylvanas do her thing, then when she does something terrible just say "not us bro, she's only Horde on Tuesdays"

How did Sunreavers contribute to the war "with every passing day" when all they did was sit on their asses in Dalaran? Only Aethas went to Silvermoon once to help them with a magic experiment on the Sha. Until the traitor during the Divine Bell that was it. Is Malfurion to be executed on sight by the Horde for his actions as a Cenarion Circle member during the Cataclysm, because he's also a member on the Alliance? Did he contribute to the war by focusing on Ragnaros and his minions?

And how do you indirectly support something just by being a member? Is there some membership fee for Horde members? If so, it's not reflected in the game. And the Horde is not a collective. The Horde is a dictatorship where every single member is a tool of their Warchief, as per the Blood Oath of the Horde. The very way it is constructed automatically puts most of the blame on the Warchief. And while sure, individuals are still responsible for their actions and for example Sylvanas even did things Garrosh was not OK and prohibited her from doing, the Sunreavers were unused tools.

And as Zulkhan said, it's not collective responsibility if the collective doesn't know what's going on. How can they support something under such circumstances? The comparison to Jaina here is off, since Jaina, at least as far as the Cata-MoP conflict is concerned, supported the Alliance very directly and was one of the leading forces against the Horde despite her cries about neutrality (or even when she was officially neutral as the leader of the Kirin Tor). Hell, she even used Stormwind troops to deal with the Sunreavers. Let's cut her head off!

[Dartz1979]

How did Sunreavers contribute to the war "with every passing day" when all they did was sit on their asses in Dalaran? Only Aethas went to Silvermoon once to help them with a magic experiment on the Sha. Until the traitor during the Divine Bell that was it. Is Malfurion to be executed on sight by the Horde for his actions as a Cenarion Circle member during the Cataclysm, because he's also a member on the Alliance? Did he contribute to the war by focusing on Ragnaros and his minions?

And how do you indirectly support something just by being a member? Is there some membership fee for Horde members? If so, it's not reflected in the game. And the Horde is not a collective. The Horde is a dictatorship where every single member is a tool of their Warchief, as per the Blood Oath of the Horde. The very way it is constructed automatically puts most of the blame on the Warchief. And while sure, individuals are still responsible for their actions and for example Sylvanas even did things Garrosh was not OK and prohibited her from doing, the Sunreavers were unused tools.

And as Zulkhan said, it's not collective responsibility if the collective doesn't know what's going on. How can they support something under such circumstances? The comparison to Jaina here is off, since Jaina, at least as far as the Cata-MoP conflict is concerned, supported the Alliance very directly and was one of the leading forces against the Horde despite her cries about neutrality (or even when she was officially neutral as the leader of the Kirin Tor). Hell, she even used Stormwind troops to deal with the Sunreavers. Let's cut her head off!

but she's the only female lore character left on alliance that's got that hot sexy look and what not who else is there?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I keep seeing references to Jaina "invading the Barrens". If I remember right, from reading the Shattering, the conflict in the Barrens was an Alliance response to the Horde invasion of Ashenvale. The Night Elves called on the Alliance for aide, and Varian sends reinforcements through Theramore.

If the Horde doesn't invade Ashenvale, Jaina would have kept the truce and any action in the Barrens would have been the low-key, grunt level stuff like Thrall's days as War Chief.

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but she's the only female lore character left on alliance that's got that hot sexy look and what not who else is there?

And that's about as good an argument as the Horde has for supporting Sylvanas. Honestly - do you guys refuse to kill sucubi and those 4-armed 12' tall demon women because they're hot and sexy?

[TyrannicalPuppy]

Better question: why do people make clickbait titles?

[Kallisto]

I keep seeing references to Jaina "invading the Barrens". If I remember right, from reading the Shattering, the conflict in the Barrens was an Alliance response to the Horde invasion of Ashenvale. The Night Elves called on the Alliance for aide, and Varian sends reinforcements through Theramore.

If the Horde doesn't invade Ashenvale, Jaina would have kept the truce and any action in the Barrens would have been the low-key, grunt level stuff like Thrall's days as War Chief.

- - - Updated - - -



And that's about as good an argument as the Horde has for supporting Sylvanas. Honestly - do you guys refuse to kill sucubi and those 4-armed 12' tall demon women because they're hot and sexy?

Jaina's forces were at crossroads before Horde in Ashenvale. Even then it's a non issue. She chose a side. That made Theramore a target. Would the US not attack Canada if Canada chose to host, supply, create roads for US enemies as well as using their own forces. All the while the Canadian pm screams about how she is totally peaceful and neutral. Because I'm warcraft the Canada situation I described IS Theramore.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Jaina's forces were at crossroads before Horde in Ashenvale. Even then it's a non issue. She chose a side. That made Theramore a target. Would the US not attack Canada if Canada chose to host, supply, create roads for US enemies as well as using their own forces. All the while the Canadian pm screams about how she is totally peaceful and neutral. Because I'm warcraft the Canada situation I described IS Theramore.

Jaina was always on a side. She was Alliance before there was a Theramore. Jaina was an advocate for peace and had a truce with Thrall. She offered shelter to Baine after his father's death and gave him gold from her personal funds to help defeat the Grimtotem. When Garrosh invaded Ashenvale, she had an obligation to support the Night Elves. Of course she allowed Stormwind's troops to use Theramore.

- - - Updated - - -

Theramore being a target - and any non-Orc community was a target for Garrosh, including inns at the Crossroads - is a lot different from "Theramore should be nuked." Killing combatants on the field of battle may be honorable, but killing every civilian in Theramore was even less justified than Jaina would have been by wiping out Orgrimmar in retribution.

[Kallisto]

Theramore being a target - and any non-Orc community was a target for Garrosh, including inns at the Crossroads - is a lot different from "Theramore should be nuked." Killing combatants on the field of battle may be honorable, but killing every civilian in Theramore was even less justified than Jaina would have been by wiping out Orgrimmar in retribution.

There were no civilians in Theramore when it was bombed.

[Lelkowski]

No, there weren't. But Garrosh captured them all, and sent them to Orgrimmar. Taking their children and forcing them to fight to the death against each other.. And then just executing them anyway.