[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Alanar]

Maybe people find Evelle easier to pronouce than my 'Y-va Elle'

Anyway I think you deserve it! Now I hope they listen more to you and theed in the beta!

[Wickedsick]

Do people here realize that Shadow and Void are closely related and are even more associated with the Old Gods or do they not read the lore?

[wholol]

thanks for the logs. Skillwise do you know about the others in your group
- Are we talking butter eaters/average/raider/top 5%?

From a warlock perspective there was only 1 log that had locks, and they are both not playing the specs optimally, especially that demo lock,I don't think he knows what he's doing.

Both of the locks in that log could've done more, but if i should estimate how it will compare to an actual mythic raid group with people who know what they're doing, no idea

[eScar95]

Voidform with a cast time really urks me.

[Malico]

It is so uncomfortable to cast voidform and it feels pain.

[l33t]

I dunno guys... how about giving feedback to developers? We all hate having to cast to enter VF... well, maybe except Kretan, he automatically loves anything

[grizzlysaurusrex]

So as someone who didn't like shadow earlier on in the beta, I found myself playing it a lot this weekend and having a lot of fun. The level 100 talents don't feel well balanced though. I think it would be interesting if they were designed to be more play-style defining: more void form cycling (Legacy of the Void), more insanity generated overall (Fortress of the Mind swapped with Mind Spike), and pseudo-permanent void form (Surrender to Madness). It would require altering Legacy of the Void a bit. Here's my suggestion:

Legacy of the Void: Insanity generation out of void form increased by X%. Insanity depletion inside of void form increased by Y%. You enter void form with Z stacks. Void Eruption is now instant cast.

And to make Mind Spike more competitive, I was imagining something like this:

Mind Spike: Each stack of Mind Spike detonated has a 10% chance to make your next Mind Spike instant and generate double the insanity.

Finally, I like the idea and animation of Shadow Crash but found it really awkward to use in a high void form stack spam fest. I didn't like needing to manually place it and would have preferred it just shot at my current target.

[Ifritx]

Is it just me, or does anyone else on this board feel like a lot of confusion and pointless arguments happen here because one person is talking about pve and one is talking about pvp and they each think the other is referring to the opposite play mode?

[RsinRC]

Is it just me, or does anyone else on this board feel like a lot of confusion and pointless arguments happen here because one person is talking about pve and one is talking about pvp and they each think the other is referring to the opposite play mode?

There are some who are speak of pve to counter about pvp and vice versa. I've noticed it and it's type annoying. Both playstyles are drastically different.

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[Deja Thoris]

Is it just me, or does anyone else on this board feel like a lot of confusion and pointless arguments happen here because one person is talking about pve and one is talking about pvp and they each think the other is referring to the opposite play mode?

Not really. The back and forth here is because theres some people that will hate anything and everything and then others that will defend any decision Blizz makes. It's when these 2 camps start bickering that we get 3-4 pages of bullshit posts in a day.

It's pretty clear to me when people are talking pvp vs. pve.

[Gnarilex]

Not really. The back and forth here is because theres some people that will hate anything and everything and then others that will defend any decision Blizz makes. It's when these 2 camps start bickering that we get 3-4 pages of bullshit posts in a day.

It's pretty clear to me when people are talking pvp vs. pve.

Those are two very black and white sides you outlined there. I wouldn't say it's that stark of a difference. There's plenty of back and forth and mixed opinions on Blizzard's decisions. Most of it boils down to "x sucks but would be better if y was done to it" or in the case of mindspike, void ray, etc. removed. I usually gloss over the pvp discussions. Pretty easy to identify with the unfamiliar talent names and pvp-related acronyms and they always come in a chain of quotes.

[Aeriel]

My general rule of thumb: if there is a complaint about melee, then it is PvP. If no mention of melee, except Enhance, then it's PvE.

[Biomega]

Well, I've wanted the PvP and PvE parts separated like 200 pages ago, but apparently people decided it's fine and not confusing. Just keep it in mind for the next time, I suppose.

Also the White Knights vs. Black Knights thing is not really out of hand, there's surges every now and then but usually only between two people. We can live with that, I think.

[Yvaelle]

Well, I've wanted the PvP and PvE parts separated like 200 pages ago, but apparently people decided it's fine and not confusing. Just keep it in mind for the next time, I suppose.

I prefer keeping the community together. When the PvE and PvP communities are separated, both communities blame the others for nerfs to the class. Ex.
"Oh, they nerfed ______ because Pv_"

The few of us who overlap like myself are then left fielding these issues from both sides - which makes it harder for both (isolated) communities to come to the root of issues, and therefore harder to offer constructive feedback to the devs.

Class balancing doesn't occur in a PvE / PvP vacuum: discussion and feedback cannot either.

When we get into the expansion - when class balancing is ~complete - it's much easier to split the discussions based on topics. Right now, it's a discussion of something we both share (Shadow spec), both are affected by, based on both experiences in tandem.

[Sxq]

With the additional capability of balancing pvp and pve separately through stat templates and pvp talents, I'd also much prefer to separate the discussion (and said so hundreds of pages ago as well).

[BobAwesome]

Do people here realize that Shadow and Void are closely related and are even more associated with the Old Gods or do they not read the lore?

You realize shadow priests are being hamfisted into Void/Old God stuff right, or have you never noticed that shadow priest abilities were straight up copies of Dreadlord ones?

[davesignal]

I prefer keeping the community together. When the PvE and PvP communities are separated, both communities blame the others for nerfs to the class. Ex.
"Oh, they nerfed ______ because Pv_"

The few of us who overlap like myself are then left fielding these issues from both sides - which makes it harder for both (isolated) communities to come to the root of issues, and therefore harder to offer constructive feedback to the devs.

Class balancing doesn't occur in a PvE / PvP vacuum: discussion and feedback cannot either.

When we get into the expansion - when class balancing is ~complete - it's much easier to split the discussions based on topics. Right now, it's a discussion of something we both share (Shadow spec), both are affected by, based on both experiences in tandem.

I feel like this would hold more weight if PvE ever got anything in PvP nerfed, ever.

[Kretan]

I feel like this would hold more weight if PvE ever got anything in PvP nerfed, ever.

Both get each other nerfed regularly. Those on PVE only really see one side of the coin while the pvp people only see the other.

[Biomega]

Honestly, we should just emphasize then that the PvP/PvE separation needs to be more stringent. Already they're putting in separate trees, if there really is overlap in terms of nerfs then that should be brought to attention and addressed, not turned into a blame game.

There are just too many people imo that don't care for one of the two sides whatsoever; more at least than there are that REALLY care about both equally. I'm not talking about people who dabble here and there, they don't need in-depth analyses. I'm talking people who are actually invested one way or the other, and there's just not that many who go deep into both sides.

[Yvaelle]

I feel like this would hold more weight if PvE ever got anything in PvP nerfed, ever.

PvE-intended damage nerfs regularly impact competitive Shadow PvP accidentally.

The More You Know! .--*