Crafting useless if you raid normal or hc?

[Deleted]

Yes crafting will be plain useless right from the start because every prof is entweint with others:
Hey you wanna buy that recipe sure bring me some lw mats and some enchanter mats - wth?
you wanna buy that recipe? sure gimme some lw mats and ores - ok?
you wanna buy that recipe over there too? sure just hand me some leathers and some gems - ok, fuck up and keep them. Im a fucking lw/skinner and there blizzard claims you dont need alts with all professions.

apart from the fact that it takes to then also open the forge - you better invest your time in getting gear from everywhere else.
Its just not worth the time, at ALL.

WoD did it right with upgradeable gear.

[CrossNgen]

The whole point of MMO or any rpg is to progress your character and make it more powerful.

Yes, to tackle bigger challenges, not to show off your power.

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Yes crafting will be plain useless right from the start because every prof is entweint with others:
Hey you wanna buy that recipe sure bring me some lw mats and some enchanter mats - wth?
you wanna buy that recipe? sure gimme some lw mats and ores - ok?
you wanna buy that recipe over there too? sure just hand me some leathers and some gems - ok, fuck up and keep them. Im a fucking lw/skinner and there blizzard claims you dont need alts with all professions.

apart from the fact that it takes to then also open the forge - you better invest your time in getting gear from everywhere else.
Its just not worth the time, at ALL.

WoD did it right with upgradeable gear.

Sounds like the perfect system for the economy and the trade scene to grow.

[Deleted]

Yes, to tackle bigger challenges, not to show off your power.

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Sounds like the perfect system for the economy and the trade scene to grow.

No, I should be able to do all by myself. What is this, a multiplayer game?

[Maudib]

No, I should be able to do all by myself. What is this, a multiplayer game?

WoW has not been a multi player game for a few years now.

[Sylvaeres]

WoW has not been a multi player game for a few years now.

Wow, I can't believe I solo'd M Arch. Why did I not get an MMO-Champ front page story for this? I can't wait till Legion comes around to solo that also

[Maudib]

Wow, I can't believe I solo'd M Arch. Why did I not get an MMO-Champ front page story for this? I can't wait till Legion comes around to solo that also

No. You AFK'd LFR Archi. Gratz.

Speaking in general terms, the guilds, community, organized raiding have been on a downward spiral for some time. If you are in a healthy, active guild... count yourself among the very lucky.

Servers being "linked" are still dead, guilds breaking up or going dormant, people just logging in for Garrison missions, or to LFD/LFR. You may consider that "mmo"... but it's not much different than a single player scenario anymore.

We look to Blizzard to create the environment to nurture guilds and community... but we get multi tag mobs/rares that remove any need for social interaction.

[Golden]

There is enough room in WoW to accommodate both socializers and solo players. If you don't believe so, you need to get over yourself. There is nothing wrong with Blizzard providing content for both types of players.

[watatsuya]

MMOs in general have been destroyed by shithead players who just want to get the best gear and are willing to step on others for it. It's built up distrust in the community, and the result is you have wars between people who just want to be left alone (a vast majority) to get their gear and those who feel the best should come from the actual point of the game, which is to GO TO WAR against those who would destroy the WORLD (a vast minority, either because of skill or desire to be the best). In order to balance the fact that Blizzard wants to get paid and they want to create epic experiences in raiding, they have to cater to both.

Blizzard has tried to force camaraderie in many circumstances, even giving great benefits for joining guilds and participating with others, but they've also seen sub numbers dwindle as they do this.

[Hexxidecimal]

No. You AFK'd LFR Archi. Gratz.

Speaking in general terms, the guilds, community, organized raiding have been on a downward spiral for some time. If you are in a healthy, active guild... count yourself among the very lucky.

Servers being "linked" are still dead, guilds breaking up or going dormant, people just logging in for Garrison missions, or to LFD/LFR. You may consider that "mmo"... but it's not much different than a single player scenario anymore.

We look to Blizzard to create the environment to nurture guilds and community... but we get multi tag mobs/rares that remove any need for social interaction.

To be fair multi-tag mobs is really just a boon. Leveling in WoW, outside of running instances, has never really been a group activity. That being said I somewhat agree with rares and in general world bosses and such. Assuming you are speaking to the difficulty, or the lack thereof, of the rares then that can actually be a bit of a double edged sword.

I feel like if you were to release a game now that is "difficult" then it would be a financial failure. Even though ramped up difficulty means you have to work together and build a community in order to progress, it also means a much much smaller number of customers. I will now make some conjecture in regards to another game. Wildstar. I felt this game "failed" because it was damn difficult. It required well communicated groups, strict attention to mechanics and cooperation, this unfortunately was too much for the general populace and the game, financially, was dud. Obviously there are probably a lot of other reasons, I am simply posturing that this was the main one.

BUUUUUT if I am assuming wrong and you weren't speaking to the difficulty of the rare mobs the please ignore me.

[ThunderTaco]

Can crafted items get an upgrade like dungeons or raid items ? Roll titanforged or something.

[Alvito]

Take in mind it will probably have a resriction on them like WOD, with only 3 or so equippable.

They have said they are moving away from that. It wasn't just in reference to the WoD crafting gear changing.

[Multibocks]

Yes, to tackle bigger challenges, not to show off your power.




.

You don't need higher ilvl either, you WANT to kill that raid boss. See I can turn it around too. No one NEEDS anything in this game, it's all want. That's all there is. You like raiding? Well then you want better gear to kill that boss. You don't have time for raiding? Then I guess you don't want enough.

[Maudib]

Can crafted items get an upgrade like dungeons or raid items ? Roll titanforged or something.

Yes. One of my crafted items rolled epic.

[zeropeorth]

Playing devil advocate on this though -- you are confusing NEED with WANT. You may WANT to kill faster if you don't raid but you don't NEED to kill faster. There is a difference. With raids it can be things like enrage timers you are against and just the common sense of its a raid -- its a much more difficult content therefore the enhanced gear is required to be successful.

In the world as long as you aren't being stupid - like at level 70 trying to kill things that are for level 100....OR trying to hit up a world boss AT LEVEL by yourself...you probably aren't going to be in too bad of danger, where high end "raid quality gear" isn't going to save your life it will just make it more convenient for you. In raids -- outfit an entire raid in craptastic gear....have fun with that.

They literally said -want-.

And, why do you care if non raiders have a progression system for gear, especially one that doesn't have raid set bonuses? Seems perfect really; progression for everyone. Hell, I'd be for set bonuses that aren't raiding types for world content; maybe mount speed bonuses or stun dismount resistance, faster gathering or crafting, increased loot rewards etc. while combat bonuses and group benefit bonuses for raids; though I'd say dungeon sets should be a thing too.

Such a system would give reason to do lots of varied content for some, longevity. The game isn't about any solitary aspect, but all aspects of itself ... Raids, pvp, lore, world, everything. No reason not to make systems to drive desire for all aspects of the game. This breathes life and gives reason to the game, while keeping each section with unique rewards and bonuses appropriate to those who pursue those paths.

The only key to all this is making sure 'bis' for each thing comes nearly exclusively from that thing. I'd add vendor offset pieces back as well, allowing for alternate stat priorities at maybe the cost of set bonuses. More choice, more freedom, more purpose, more fun.

[Maudib]

You don't need higher ilvl either, you WANT to kill that raid boss. See I can turn it around too. No one NEEDS anything in this game, it's all want. That's all there is. You like raiding? Well then you want better gear to kill that boss. You don't have time for raiding? Then I guess you don't want enough.

Exactly... the trick is for Blizzard to make thigns in game we WANT to do or accomplish... and make us want it enough to do stuff that is less exciting. "Back int he day" if you really wanted to raid you farmed consumables, weapon stones/oils, enchants, gems... You completed attunements, farmed heroic dungeon sets, crafted gear, ground out reputations, flew (or rode) to the dungeons/raids, farmed soul shards, the list went on and on.

Now? Just lol.

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To be fair multi-tag mobs is really just a boon. Leveling in WoW, outside of running instances, has never really been a group activity. That being said I somewhat agree with rares and in general world bosses and such. Assuming you are speaking to the difficulty, or the lack thereof, of the rares then that can actually be a bit of a double edged sword.

I feel like if you were to release a game now that is "difficult" then it would be a financial failure. Even though ramped up difficulty means you have to work together and build a community in order to progress, it also means a much much smaller number of customers. I will now make some conjecture in regards to another game. Wildstar. I felt this game "failed" because it was damn difficult. It required well communicated groups, strict attention to mechanics and cooperation, this unfortunately was too much for the general populace and the game, financially, was dud. Obviously there are probably a lot of other reasons, I am simply posturing that this was the main one.

BUUUUUT if I am assuming wrong and you weren't speaking to the difficulty of the rare mobs the please ignore me.

It was just one of the examples that Blizzard has made that cut out the need for other people in an MMO. Dungeon finder and crossrealm crap removed the need to be in a guild to experience the content... same with LFR. People can be antisocial asshats and get forced upon random groups... carried by others who are trying to enjoy the game.

Before... you made friends, joined guilds, advertised "LF2M DPS and Healer for H. Shattered Halls then GTG"... when you ran with unknown people you either added them to your friends list or not. A good tank logged in? You whispered him that you were up for heroics whenever he was.

You treated people with respect because your reputation followed you.
Now it's a bunch of anonymous interaction with people that might as well be bots. And some actually are...

The more they tried to cater to the people who didn't want to bother with the social aspect of the game, the more they made it less sociable.. until now you really don't need anyone to play the game. You might not see mythinc.. but who cares... LFR will get you pretty close to watching the free show and seeing content without ANY investment at all in the game or your character.

[ejpaints]

The "casuals don't need gear" sentiment is brewing a bit too hot already. It's a silly mindset that is unhealthy for the game. Why people can't see that is beyond me. Raids give better gear. That's just how it's gonna be. But, casuals do deserve the opportunity for character progression. If they don't have that then there's no reason to play. Luckily Legion offers several options for that so the issue is somewhat abated.

As for the crafted gear, we'll see how the upgrades at the forge goes. Obliteratum is where the gold will be, but all that means is price gouging on the crafted gear won't happen as much. The gold will be spent on the upgrades. But, you could definitely gear yourself up for raids via crafting if you have the gold which is pretty much how it always was excluding WoD's 3 piece restriction. I see plenty of opportunities to make gold with crafting. You just won't be able to log in and stand in front of the AH all day if you want to be effective at it. I personally like that change. Rewards are effort driven right down to the professions in this expansion. It'll be interesting to see if people take advantage of the incentive to go out & actually play the game or just go whine on the forums to take away content. Because that's what this is even if it's not the content you personally want to play.

[Sylvaeres]

No. You AFK'd LFR Archi. Gratz.

Speaking in general terms, the guilds, community, organized raiding have been on a downward spiral for some time. If you are in a healthy, active guild... count yourself among the very lucky.

Servers being "linked" are still dead, guilds breaking up or going dormant, people just logging in for Garrison missions, or to LFD/LFR. You may consider that "mmo"... but it's not much different than a single player scenario anymore.

We look to Blizzard to create the environment to nurture guilds and community... but we get multi tag mobs/rares that remove any need for social interaction.

I'm not sure if you're actuslly serious about that lfr thing. But no shit the subs are down. WoD didn't have much replayability. My guild is perfectly fine, but I've see plenty of guilds fall apart. But then again, most people expect millions of players to be coming back to the game for Legion.

And you're complaining about multi tag? That's one of the best changes they've ever made. You're confusing giant time sinks with content. There's a huge difference. A leveling mob isn't supposed to be something you sit around waiting for

[Mifuyne]

Boohoo I want to get the best gear by picking flowers and pressing a mining node.
Every time I start picking flowers the monsters around them kill me so I'm getting really pissed off.
Please give me the best gear possible so I can kill monsters that guard the flowers please Blizz.

[Maudib]

I'm not sure if you're actuslly serious about that lfr thing. But no shit the subs are down. WoD didn't have much replayability. My guild is perfectly fine, but I've see plenty of guilds fall apart. But then again, most people expect millions of players to be coming back to the game for Legion.

And you're complaining about multi tag? That's one of the best changes they've ever made. You're confusing giant time sinks with content. There's a huge difference. A leveling mob isn't supposed to be something you sit around waiting for

No actually I like the multitag thing... but I recall when Elites were elite.. and you had to get a friend or two to farm them. Now you can pass by a person killing something.. tag it.. and keep on rolling to leech other peoples kills.

[Sylvaeres]

No actually I like the multitag thing... but I recall when Elites were elite.. and you had to get a friend or two to farm them. Now you can pass by a person killing something.. tag it.. and keep on rolling to leech other peoples kills.

I too remember Elites being tough to kill. Problem is, most players want more streamlined content. If you're looking for a challenge, there's Mythic content galore. But when I'm leveling 100-110, the last thing I want is some mob that takes up 20 minutes of my life