BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Tinch]

Yeah, working hard instead of whinging tends to have that effect...

Having more than half of your debt written off certainly helps as well.

[Daljo]

Yeah, working hard instead of whinging tends to have that effect...

Also having your government toppled, cities obliterated and having no to little regulations also helps. There were tons of job options post-nazi Germany had. Most importantly they had no military anymore.

Britain was bogged down with government regulations, a massive amount of money was spent in warfare manufacturing and research, employment was in a chaotic state because of the returning soldiers. Germany had the freedom to rebuild where as Britain had to repair.

France even vetoed Britain's application into the EEC twice. If there was any whinging it was certainly justified, you tosser.

[Repefe]

It's becoming more clear why nobody has a plan how to leave EU. Johnson quit out of the blue, Farage has just done the same. The brexit vote was apparently their goal, not starting point for actual brexit.

[Deleted]

Also having your government toppled, cities obliterated and having no to little regulations also helps. There were tons of job options post-nazi Germany had. Most importantly they had no military anymore.

Britain was bogged down with government regulations, a massive amount of money was spent in warfare manufacturing and research, employment was in a chaotic state because of the returning soldiers. Germany had the freedom to rebuild where as Britain had to repair.

France even vetoed Britain's application into the EEC twice. If there was any whinging it was certainly justified, you tosser.

Yeah, get over it. If half of Hungary did you could as well. And the UK did get all the special treatment it wanted, it just wasn't enough apperently.

[Draco-Onis]

It's nice to see the leaders of the leave campaign stepping up and taking responsibility in guiding their country into this bold new choice they convinced them to make /sarcasm.

[Cosmic Janitor]

[...] Germany had the freedom to rebuild where as Britain had to repair. [...]

France even vetoed Britain's application into the EEC twice. If there was any whinging it was certainly justified, you tosser.

What? Ah yes of course, the great benefit of having the working male population decimated, the infrastructure bombed into pieces, no stable or working economy, biggest economic boom one could imagine. The whole middle east will be ruled by Afghanistan and Syria in 20-30 years I'm sure.

- - - Updated - - -

UKIP leader Nigel Farage stands down
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36702468

Also lol. I hope someone deals out a bit of street justice to that cowardly rat.

[zealo]

UKIP leader Nigel Farage stands down
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36702468

They really didn't plan on winning did they? Did they even want to?

[Deleted]

They really didn't plan on winning did they? Did they even want to?

Winning means he won't get the MEP salary for another 17 years. Of course he didn't want to win.

[ati87]

Also having your government toppled, cities obliterated and having no to little regulations also helps. There were tons of job options post-nazi Germany had. Most importantly they had no military anymore.

Britain was bogged down with government regulations, a massive amount of money was spent in warfare manufacturing and research, employment was in a chaotic state because of the returning soldiers. Germany had the freedom to rebuild where as Britain had to repair.

France even vetoed Britain's application into the EEC twice. If there was any whinging it was certainly justified, you tosser.

Germany has been doing well the last few years, nothing related about post war recovery.

It's attitude, it wanting to fix your problems without blaming the ''others'', it wanting to work within the EU instead of out of the EU.

[Tinch]

I really think some people overestimate the influence that Nigel Farage has in the UK. His party has 1 MP and he and Nigel hate each other, whether he remained as leader or not he would have had next to zero influence on the brexit negotiations. Yes he has a lot of air time but he really only appeals to a marginal section of the British people.

This will be a good move for UKIP if they can elect a more respectable leader though. If they can re-brand the party they'll certainly eat into the Labour working class vote, and some of the Tory right too.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They really didn't plan on winning did they? Did they even want to?

Fairly certain they either banked on Cameron taking the fall for it and making it somehow work or not winning and just getting more publicity for their shit-show party. But since the pig fucker just dropped the mic and said "Have fun" and they now have too much attention, to the point where some action is expected of them, yet they have nothing to show for it and their propaganda has been denied by themselves. I guess in Derange's case it doesn't matter, he is getting the fat checks in Brussels still and once he is done there he can surely get by with speeches on right-wing gatherings in between immigrant clobbering show acts.

[Deleted]

France even vetoed Britain's application into the EEC twice. If there was any whinging it was certainly justified, you tosser.

There were three reasons for France vetoing you - One, You weren't interested in actually being a member of the club, Two, You were going to be a problem, And three, you were just a US puppet - He was definitively right on 2/3. (and pretty much right on the third too).
So, no your whinging was not justified.

[Slant]

Also having your government toppled, cities obliterated and having no to little regulations also helps. There were tons of job options post-nazi Germany had. Most importantly they had no military anymore.

Britain was bogged down with government regulations, a massive amount of money was spent in warfare manufacturing and research, employment was in a chaotic state because of the returning soldiers. Germany had the freedom to rebuild where as Britain had to repair.

France even vetoed Britain's application into the EEC twice. If there was any whinging it was certainly justified, you tosser.

There's this myth going around in Germany that says we're lucky to have lost the war, because it enabled us to rebuild modern factories instead of the old manufacturing buildings that are unsafe, too confined and filled with old machinery and stuff. However, we are fortunate with this giant socio-economical experiment in that we actually had a control group in East Germany. Both regions were severely damaged (compare Hamburg to Dresden hit by air raids), so we can assume the starting conditions are the same. The differences start with the Soviet Union carrying away basically all heavy industry and not reinvesting.

So yeah, part of what you say is correct. Except it's not what you think it is. It's not so much a lack of Government or regulation because Germany barely scraped by until the mid 50s, when an actual Government was formed. Until then, it was basically just removing rubble and rebuilding essential infrastructure. The German economic boom started in the late 50s and went on through the 60s. This is a time when we had a well established Government, de-nazification of legislation was largely concluded at the time and Germany could focus on progressing forward properly for the first time. This is a country not only under full steam politically, as it was transforming/has transformed into a proper democracy with all the baggage that brought with it. It's also a country that has to diplomatically handle three occupying countries, their demands, a historical guilt of what happened just 10 years earlier, amends to make, still large amounts of trials to punish nazis (under the German system now) and so on and so forth. Take the student riots of the 60s and you have a huge country in political instability and turmoil. Saying it had no Government nor regulation is glossing over what actually happened.

Germany didn't just have full regulations, it also was in the process of reviewing EVERY PIECE OF IT in the de-nazification process. We've actually kept a good chunk of nazi legislation, did you know that? Simply based on the fact that if you ignore the obvious anti-semitic motivation to legislation something, it does make sense that a lawyer is required some sort of certification that he's able to properly give legal council (a law that was originally specifically aimed at pushing Jews out of the law business), for example.

We started rebuilding our Military in '59 by the way, so part of what you say is untrue in that our boom coincides with our rebuilding a military. About the jobs, we've actually had too few people for the jobs we had. So that's true. It was so bad that we went to Italy and Greece to hire guest workers. This is the beginning of the German stance on immigration policy. Still carrying on until today.

The GDR, however, did not fare so well. They basically copied every of our moves but due to some peculiarities never achieved our efficiency. Socialism didn't encourage entrepeneurship nor hard labour. You get paid the same amount as the laziest guy in your factory, no matter how hard you put your back into it. It's just a small scale example, but this is part of a problem that continued all the way up in business. And obliterated cities or even carrying all the old machinery off to the Soviet Union did not help them at all. It had zero effect after they rebuild shit like West Germany did.

By the way, the Soviets didn't have any reparations by East Germany as far as I know. So there goes your reparation being dropped argument.

So yeah, I'm sorry, but you're painting a wrong picture here.

Edit:

Re the quitters... nice opinion piece: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7118806.html

Was the British press always against the Brexit or is this a new thing?

[dribbles]

More like the club we're part of and pay membership fee too should expect continuation of our knocked down fee for at least 2 years until we say otherwise.

Not at all, at least one of the candidates for PM has indicated that an Act of Parliament would be sufficient to exit the EU and article 50 is then, like the rest of the EU irrelevant.

All this crying by the Eurocrats over Britains so called dismantling of the European superstate, ask yourself why would we care about trading with 8% of the worlds population at such cost when 92% of it is available free.

[Deleted]

It's becoming more clear why nobody has a plan how to leave EU. Johnson quit out of the blue, Farage has just done the same. The brexit vote was apparently their goal, not starting point for actual brexit.

This is really quite disgusting. They lied with their "promises", waited until people made the decision and now flee before the consequences hit. >.<

[Azadina]

This is really quite disgusting. They lied with their "promises", waited until people made the decision and now flee before the consequences hit. >.<

Sounds pretty typical for politicians, really... :/

[Deleted]

Sounds pretty typical for politicians, really... :/

It does. But it's still disgusting - he says that he wants his life back now...well, thanks for screwing over so many people before.

[Shadowferal]

There were three reasons for France vetoing you - One, You weren't interested in actually being a member of the club, Two, You were going to be a problem, And three, you were just a US puppet - He was definitively right on 2/3. (and pretty much right on the third too).
So, no your whinging was not justified.

*nods*
Have to agree there.
British and US interests tend to be aligned..for better or worse.

[Azadina]

It does. But it's still disgusting - he says that he wants his life back now...well, thanks for screwing over so many people before.

It is. There should be legal consequences for actions politicians make. It's ridiculous how they wield power with no responsibility for their actions.

[fled]

Amusing. You have zero clue on what you are talking about and decide to criticize me on economics the subject under discussion. Tell me what do you understand about household share of GDP, trade imbalances, capital flows, saving rates, and how they all interact? I'm willing to bet absolutely nothing.

M.Sc. in international trade policy, PhD in Environmental and Transport policy you fucking peasant. The minute I saw you spouting out of your anus about Germany dominating EU policy, I knew you didn't have a fucking clue.