Should the EU dissolve?

[Noradin]

The vast majority of the entertainment and pop culture being consumed by the world these days is produced in the United States, a country where nationalism has never been anything more than a fringe movement. The absence of a cohesive national identity has never prevented Americans from expressing ourselves culturally.

Uh, is that supposed to be ironic?

- - - Updated - - -

Well, for 1, the person I was originally talking to was saying we should do away with culture so the world can be united.

Efficiency isn't really something that's subjective. It's about rate of productivity and entertainment directly reduces productivity.

And I disagree with that person.

And yes, efficiency isn't subjective, but you are still free to (personally, "subjectively") choose differents metrics to define it (objectively).
What you are speaking about is not "efficiency" as a concept but a special form of "efficiency", kind of like the difference between the concept of "a house" in general and a specific house that has been built somewhere.

[Macaquerie]

What? Nationalism is like America's thing. Like the rest of the world mocks us for all the "MURICA! FUCK YEAH!" nonsense we pull.

And no, not all art and entertainment is created in the US.

That kind of stuff isn't really the same as the kind of nationalism you'd find elsewhere though, since it's all based on a modern and civic identity rather than a historical or ethnic one. And honestly at this point it's something that I'd wager the majority of Americans don't take seriously and will express ironically if at all. I don't think too many other countries are capable of using patriotism for self-deprecating humor the way we can, too many jimmies would be rustled in the process.

[Ravenblade]

No, the EU should not dissolve, it needs to be reformed. That's the gist of it.

Dissolution will end in another Europe dictated by a complex network of ententes and we know where this will eventually lead to. The idea that many people have is even worse, they imagine some romanticized version of an völkisch-plebeian ochlocracy running each country where vigilante militias roam the street looking out for people doing "suspicious" things because they belong to a certain group of people. First people from non-European countries will be driven off, then foreigners in general, then whoever doesn't conform with inward traditionalist social-conservative principles gets the target cross. Soon countries want stripes of land back and then we will be where everything begun. What freedom did people get? None whatsoever. Even better, since we are living in an age of globalisation the big players will laugh at Europe and start meddling in the affairs of each country...and all this because Europe refused to outgrow their petty old principles and refused to develop its own conscience. No sane pro-European citizen will say the EU is the epitome of perfection but it's similar with democracy, it's the worst kind of government...except all those other ones we have tried. In the same vein the only kind of European governments which succeeded were certain Roman Empires including the Holy one, and the ones which used combined arms in order to rush half of Europe.

[nonameelf]

That kind of stuff isn't really the same as the kind of nationalism you'd find elsewhere though, since it's all based on a modern and civic identity rather than a historical or ethnic one. And honestly at this point it's something that I'd wager the majority of Americans don't take seriously and will express ironically if at all. I don't think too many other countries are capable of using patriotism for self-deprecating humor the way we can, too many jimmies would be rustled in the process.

If that was the case Trump wouldn't be getting so far with "Make America Great Again."

[Macaquerie]

If that was the case Trump wouldn't be getting so far with "Make America Great Again."

The thing is though, the Trump campaign can't actually identify when America was actually great, nor can it properly define what a "real American" is, since that would mean alienating even more voters than it already has. This is the same brick wall that every would-be nationalist movement in the US has always run into and why this sort of thing will never really catch on.

[Noradin]

That kind of stuff isn't really the same as the kind of nationalism you'd find elsewhere though, since it's all based on a modern and civic identity rather than a historical or ethnic one. And honestly at this point it's something that I'd wager the majority of Americans don't take seriously and will express ironically if at all. I don't think too many other countries are capable of using patriotism for self-deprecating humor the way we can, too many jimmies would be rustled in the process.

You are trying very hard to find an excuse why your nationalism should be exceptional.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing is though, the Trump campaign can't actually identify when America was actually great, nor can it properly define what a "real American" is, since that would mean alienating even more voters than it already has. This is the same brick wall that every would-be nationalist movement in the US has always run into and why this sort of thing will never really catch on.

The same is generally true for every other nationalist movement everywhere.
In fact, it is basically one of the main features by which you can identify nationalism.

[Keosen]

Should? No
Will? Yes

[Deleted]

no EU is the future.


not being part of it shows you are racist.

[nonameelf]

no EU is the future.


not being part of it shows you are racist.

Switzerland is racist?

[Noradin]

Switzerland is racist?

50.3% of them voted in favour of legislation with a racist agenda in a referendum.

[Deleted]

Switzerland is racist?

Don't forget about Norway! They're all a bunch of racists! /s

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Sounds like a recipe for ww3

I doubt it. Odds are these days most powerful nations on the earth would just circle around the two warring European countries like guys would around to chicks fighting in the high school cafeteria and be laughing and joking and randoms in the crowd yelled things like "cat fight". Then everyone would make side bets on really ignorant things to come like "who is going to run out of ammo first" and "who will get lost in their own contury first" laugh lines that sadly wouldn't take long to realize with the state most of your nations forces are in. After it was all done we could watch the war crimes trail showing millions of faces that felt like their internet speeds were reduced or some shit.

[Deleted]

No, it really shouldn't.

It's far from perfect, but what other (better) choice do we have?

Run around like a headless chicken, in the way Great Britain, who you list as an example, is demonstrating as we speak?

[Deleted]

Don't forget about Norway! They're all a bunch of racists! /s

I will not conform to the opinion that Switzerland is racist because they don't want to join the EU. However, Switzerland certainly has elements of racism ingrained in its society (more so than some other states in the EU, at least), displayed by the referendum mentioned. Note that women weren't allowed to vote in Switzerland until the latter half of the 20th century. That demonstrates the socially conservative culture that Switzerland possesses.

As for Norway (and Iceland) their reasons for not joining the EU are more understandable. The fishing policies of the EU focuses a lot more on enviromental awareness than economy, thus Norway/Iceland would not benefit from joining. They're also too small population-wise to create a bloc within the European Parliament and have therefore very limited options even if they were to join.

Lastly, most EU-subsidies go to the agricultural sector, and that sector is essentially non-existant in Norway/Iceland, which further strengthens the case that they shouldn't join the EU.

[Deleted]

@OP
NO!
EU will be even stronger, Brexit show only that every EU citizen should be better educated about what EU is, some informative campaigns etc.

Also brexit dont even prove that EU is collapsing, it prove only brits stupidity:
http://fortune.com/2016/06/24/brexit-google-trends/

Lets see how many change minds in second referendum if this ever happen.

[nonameelf]

I do have to say, it's quite funny watching people who talk about how nationalism is bad then go on to say bad things about nations that didn't join the EU(or left) as if members of the EU are better. Kind of reeks of the type of nationalism that leads to war.

[Tinch]

I do have to say, it's quite funny watching people who talk about how nationalism is bad then go on to say bad things about nations that didn't join the EU(or left) as if members of the EU are better. Kind of reeks of the type of nationalism that leads to war.

The same kind of hubris was prevalent throughout the referendum campaign too, some just can't contemplate that other people may have criticisms of the EU.

[Rafoel]

I doubt it. Odds are these days most powerful nations on the earth would just circle around the two warring European countries like guys would around to chicks fighting in the high school cafeteria and be laughing and joking and randoms in the crowd yelled things like "cat fight". Then everyone would make side bets on really ignorant things to come like "who is going to run out of ammo first" and "who will get lost in their own contury first" laugh lines that sadly wouldn't take long to realize with the state most of your nations forces are in. After it was all done we could watch the war crimes trail showing millions of faces that felt like their internet speeds were reduced or some shit.

Like... who exactly?

[Queen of Hamsters]

No, I'd say reformation and addressing the issues countries are having would be the first step.

Don't sweat it, Judge. Eventually, we'll have to save Europe from themselves yet again. As @Skroe has said elsewhere, it's a US hobby.

Acting as if America "saved" Europe...how original!

[Cizr]

EU needs to die before it lets whole Europe to war like in AH. EU is already a prison of nations like AH was. We survived before EU and we will survive after EU is gone.