Valve seems to be making a carbon copy of Overwatch and its systems

[DeadmanWalking]

Not trying to nitpick, especially since it's been years since I played Warcraft 3. Didn't one of the campaign missions basically have a lane type system with mobs constantly spawning in them and you had to work your way through that Act (or whatever it was called)? For some reason I remember one with Arthas moving through Stratholme and you'd defeat a wave and as you moved more spawned.

Was that the one where you destroyed a building and then the undead tumbled out? The point I was making was that the concept of the dota moba was the innovation, regardless if its engine is from another game. If I invented a coffee machine that made single cups of coffee with K cups it is an innovation even though it's based on the model that makes an entire pot of coffee.

[Tenris]

Not trying to nitpick, especially since it's been years since I played Warcraft 3. Didn't one of the campaign missions basically have a lane type system with mobs constantly spawning in them and you had to work your way through that Act (or whatever it was called)? For some reason I remember one with Arthas moving through Stratholme and you'd defeat a wave and as you moved more spawned.

One of the Blood elf levels you only control heroes and minions spawn in from both sides and your objective is to capture Illidan from Maiev. Its blood elf missiom number 4, its basically a 1 lane moba.

[Lucetia]

Was that the one where you destroyed a building and then the undead tumbled out? The point I was making was that the concept of the dota moba was the innovation, regardless if its engine is from another game. If I invented a coffee machine that made single cups of coffee with K cups it is an innovation even though it's based on the model that makes an entire pot of coffee.

I think so as it sounds vaguely familiar (geez now I'm feeling old =( ). I know what your point was, that's why I was saying I wasn't nitpicking :P Just showing that lanes and minion waves had a similar idea in WC3 which I'm sure helped gave birth to the whole Dota thing. I wasn't saying because it is in there Blizzard came up with it.

[TheWindWalker]

The story is basically from wow as well.

DotA 1 is yes. DotA 2 is about two conflicting Cosmic Entities sending mortal heroes, ancient monsters, literal gods, even sentient forms of universal constants and a living black hole.

[blehmeh]

This is how things work. You can try to use this as a way to "prove" that Blizzard is somehow the best ever and everyone else is shit, or you can realize that every company does this. It fuels competition between companies, which is only good for the consumer. Blizzard has taken a lot from Valve before, and really its clear that most of Blizzards recent decisions and games are fueled by the desire to be more like Valve. Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch would literally not exist without Valve. Also, I'd say that the competitive mode Blizzard just put in is the first time they've gotten a MMR system actually right. They've been prone to dropping the ball up til recently, just look at WoW's PvP scene.

Basically, it goes both ways (or multiple ways) so to try and pick a side only makes you a blind fanboy.

[Deleted]

Oh, it's always lovely to see the Cult of Blizzard worshippers vomiting out their delusions...... Alright then, time for some actual facts, instead of rampant delusions;

- DOTA was originally a Warcraft 3 Mod, created by a non-Blizzard employee person, who made it at a time when the WC3 World Editor didn't yet contain a "we own everything you do with this" clause. Blizzard tried to contest that exact thing in court, & totally, epically, utterly failed, which is exactly why DOTA 2 is called DOTA 2 today, instead of something else entirely.

Eul based the original DOTA Mod on a Starcraft Scenario, but it wasn't originally a Starcraft Mod, to be clear, it was just inspired by Starcraft. It's also worth noting that while IceFrog is the most infamous of the various WC3 DOTA developers, he's only responsible for the.... 4th? major iteration of the Mod itself, not the original idea, concept, or execution, of which he had absolutely nothing to do with at all. Granted, he is the only one who really managed the DOTA Mod for any length of time beyond a few months or so, so he is more-or-less the one responsible for its pre-DOTA 2 levels of popularity, no matter what.

IceFrog is also the one Valve hired to work on DOTA 2, which is what made it the "official" successor to the WC3 DOTA Mod, another fact that aggravated Blizzard, which was at the time working on their own DOTA game, known as Blizzard All Stars (formerly Blizzard DOTA) which eventually got canned in favour of Heroes of the Storm, which in turn is a combination of League of Legends & WC3 DOTA.

- Diablo wasn't created by Blizzard, it was created by Condor, the studio which came to be known as Blizzard North. Blizzard only bought Condor 9 months before Diablo originally launched however, so it's really not fair to say that Blizzard "created" Diablo. They may have contributed to it slightly, & they definitely published it, but they are not the "creators" of Diablo, no matter how much they want to be, & how much they portray themselves as such. If there's anyone who should be credited for actually creating Diablo, that would be the Schaefer brothers.
- Overwatch is nothing more than Blizzard doing what Blizzard does best; copy/pasting popular IP's & refining certain aspects of them.

Just as World of Warcraft was initially nothing more than a combination of the best aspects of LineAge, EverQuest & Diablo, Overwatch is in turn nothing more than a Team Fortress 2 clone (or carbon copy, if you'd rather) with some refinements, no matter what they call their classes - heroes, villains, classes, bosses, gods, emperors, brainfarts, or whatever. "Team-based Hero FPS" is just fancy marketing code for "class-based FPS with teams", no matter what people may believe, or try to make you believe.

The only thing Valve's taken from Overwatch (so far) is the Matchmaking & Ranking thing, which the TF2 community has been asking for ever since the near-beginning anyway, so it's not like people just up & saw it in Overwatch, & started demanding it in TF2 suddenly.

We could technically get into a long & tedious conversation about how most of Valve's IPs are technically based on Mods themselves in the first place, but I'd rather just recommend anyone curious about this to google it, because it's a very, very long-winded thing to get into, & most importantly has very little to do with this thread, anyway.

[Better]

Blizzard has taken a lot from Valve before, and really its clear that most of Blizzards recent decisions and games are fueled by the desire to be more like Valve. Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch would literally not exist without Valve.

I'd argue that maybe Overwatch wouldn't (even though it's basically from a scapped MMO known as "Project Titan"), but HotS would be around just based on how popular league is, didn't Blizzard even fight Valve on the naming rights for DotA?

[Deleted]

I'd argue that maybe Overwatch wouldn't (even though it's basically from a scapped MMO known as "Project Titan"), but HotS would be around just based on how popular league is, didn't Blizzard even fight Valve on the naming rights for DotA?

Yep, way back when they were still working on "Blizzard DOTA" they complained about the naming rights & how people would misunderstand how DOTA 2 wasn't associated with them or some bullshit argument like that. Regardless, HotS would exist in one form or another even without DOTA 2.

On the first part; it's difficult to tell with Overwatch overall, I agree. They definitely would have tried for an FPS of some kind after their failed "Project Titan" MMO, no doubt about that, but without Team Fortress 2 they'd most likely have gone into a completely different direction. Maybe something more akin to a Titanfall clone?

[NFA]

Overwatch straight up copied TF2 in many ways too by your own logic then OP.

[Gib Lover]

Nah. Valve can do everything what they want. Blizzard will be always better.
Better heroes. Better story. Better feeling. People will always love Blizzard characters ...

You can try to love the ugly TF2 characters but Sexy Mercy or Widowmaker is just better.

The only thing that is truly unique and best from Valve is Half-Life. And they were gave up with Half-Life......

You tried Valve. You lost. Again.

The fuck are you talking about? Half-Life 3 is coming out in 2018

[Jingoism]

Nah. Valve can do everything what they want. Blizzard will be always better.
Better heroes. Better story. Better feeling. People will always love Blizzard characters ...

You can try to love the ugly TF2 characters but Sexy Mercy or Widowmaker is just better.

The only thing that is truly unique and best from Valve is Half-Life. And they were gave up with Half-Life......

You tried Valve. You lost. Again.

TF2 is 11 years old and people still play it. Overwatch hasn't proved it's staying power quite yet and Blizzards recent track records with murdering their own IPs ala SC2/diablo/wow.

[Deleted]

While WoW =Eqverquest, Star Craft = Warcraft in space, Overwatch=TF2, Hots=Dota & Hearthstone=Mtg I believe Diablo is the first of its kind and was quite innovative which others have sought to emulate.

I am still waiting for a sci-fy diablo-esque game that is good.

Warhammer 40k: Martyr
No idea if it will be any good though, GamesWorkshop has been shelling out their licenses to anyone since THQ had to close shop.

BTW:
Warcraft=Warhammer
StarCraft=Warhammer 40k

[Deleted]

Warhammer 40k: Martyr
No idea if it will be any good though, GamesWorkshop has been shelling out their licenses to anyone since THQ had to close shop.

BTW:
Warcraft=Warhammer
StarCraft=Warhammer 40k

That too; Warcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer 40K game, but they couldn't secure a license from Games Workshop, so instead they retooled it into a Medieval Fantasy game.

The only reason they managed to take off with Warcraft 1 & 2 was the gameplay, since the story was basically converted into a series of asspulls at first, until they started to shape it up properly later in.

[Miyagie]

While WoW =Eqverquest, Star Craft = Warcraft in space, Overwatch=TF2, Hots=Dota & Hearthstone=Mtg I believe Diablo is the first of its kind and was quite innovative which others have sought to emulate.

I am still waiting for a sci-fy diablo-esque game that is good.

But lost vikings and rock and roll racing.

[Deleted]

I just read this article on tomshardware and I think its extremely funny that since Blizzard broke into the FPS scene and most importantly the competitive Hero FPS scene (no other real games like Overwatch), Valve is now changing their Team Fortress 2 game to be almost a carbon copy of overwatch and its systems.

- They will be having a matchmaking system to pair players 6 on 6 (copied from Overwatch, check)
- Gold, Silver and Bronze metals for how you did in categories like, most kills, damage, healing (carbon copy of Overwatch, check)
- Competitive ranks (carbon copy of Overwatch, check)

It really looks like Blizzard is always at the forefront of innovation and imagination when it comes to any game they make. I love overwatch and cant wait to see what they add in the future, but it already looks like many developers are trying to copy the genius of the Blizzard developers.

Source Article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/tea...ode,32213.html

Good post Jaylock. I agree, Blizzard make the most original games to date. Overwatch has no real competitor, games like Team Fortress 2 will strive to become like Overwatch after their amazing success!

[Better]

TF2 is 11 years old and people still play it. Overwatch hasn't proved it's staying power quite yet and Blizzards recent track records with murdering their own IPs ala SC2/diablo/wow.

You can't make an argument about the staying power of a game, then complain Blizzard murdered WoW, the MMO that dominated the market for 12 years now.

Also D3 isn't really a bad game anymore, it just had a REALLY bad launch. Sadly most people that quit due to the launch never went back to see that it's improved now.

[Deleted]

Good post Jaylock. I agree, Blizzard make the most original games to date. Overwatch has no real competitor, games like Team Fortress 2 will strive to become like Overwatch after their amazing success!

Don't you just love it when some random bloke skips over the entire thread & instead directly posts something as hilarious as this?

No seriously, scroll up a bit mate.

[Deleted]

You can't make an argument about the staying power of a game, then complain Blizzard murdered WoW, the MMO that dominated the market for 12 years now.

Also D3 isn't really a bad game anymore, it just had a REALLY bad launch. Sadly most people that quit due to the launch never went back to see that it's improved now.

Excuse me? Diablo 3 2.0 was a good game, Diablo 3 2016 is a fucking joke.

As for WoW - it's been in decline for years. No matter what they once (somehow) managed to achieve, they've also managed to successfully counter over & over with their own idiocy.

- - - Updated - - -

You lost me with this bit, sadly. You clearly don't know what a carbon copy, or even a clone, is. Same as pretty much everyone calling OW a clone or exact copy of TF2.

Here's a hint, if it were a carbon copy, it would be 100% identical to TF2 in looks, mechanics, everything.

"Carbon copy" was in reference to the OP who claimed TF2 was trying to become a carbon copy of OW, or whatever.

Poor choice of words though, agreed.

[Deleted]

You lost me with this bit, sadly. You clearly don't know what a carbon copy, or even a clone, is. Same as pretty much everyone calling OW a clone or exact copy of TF2.

Here's a hint, if it were a carbon copy, it would be 100% identical to TF2 in looks, mechanics, everything.

Every FPS after Doom was considered a clone at first. We have come a long way in not calling games of the same genre clones till then.

[Boogums]

Blizzard are not really innovators. They're refiners.

And it's not exactly shocking for any developer to see a successful game and want to try get in on that success. Blizzard did it themselves with HoTS.

They are absolutely innovators. That's all World of Warcraft does is innovate. Sure, some of the story elements and features may be stuff that other games have done before, but the systems and philosophies and how mechanics are implemented are innovative and stuff other games (not just mmos) utilize (or in some cases, completely fail to take advantage of) every day.