Why can't the father choose not to pay the child support if he wants abortion?

[luc54]

The purpose of sex is to reproduce. Having sex is consent to being pregnant, according to current precedent in terms of the law.

That being said, child support is totally fucked right now and biased. But this solution is terrible.

I don't think having sex is consent to being pregnant. We should not be tied down by biological factors at this time anymore just like getting some disease shouldn't mean death sentence if we have technology to overcome it.

[lonely zergling]

This. While we can play the game of "if he didn't want a kid, he should've used protection" until this thread gets closed, but the truth is, protection isn't 100%, as well there are plenty of opportunities where it isn't available, isn't mentioned, isn't even thought of, woman says her tubes are tied, etc, and at SOME point, some poor unlucky guy is going to win that lotto. If the woman refuses to abort (which is certainly her right), then the man should be allowed to refuse to pay child support because he doesn't want the child. Financial abortion certainly sounds like a good term for it.

Feminists screaming for equality, but men have absolutely no say-so in this matter. Go figure.

Yeah just make the time frame where the guy can do a "financial abortion" the same as for regular abortions. So that no one could leave at the last moment where a abortion isnt allowed anymore. Equality. We shouldnt treat woman like children all the time...

[Jonnusthegreat]

I don't understand why this discussion keeps coming up...

If you don't wanna pay wrap up, it's simple

It's more complex than using protection - most forms of birth control are about 95% effective during certain times.

[Lord Havik]

The father should have chose to use a condom.

They're not expensive in the slightest and prevent pregnancy with a 99% rate of success.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I don't think having sex is consent to being pregnant. We should not be tied down by biological factors at this time anymore just like getting some disease shouldn't mean death sentence if we have technology to overcome it.

Unfortunately, it is. And "having technology" doesn't mean it has to be used. You simply have no right to alter anyone's body other than your own. It's very simple.

PS. Great "unwanted pregnancy = death sentence" comparison.

[Powerogue]

Wouldn't that make the playing field equal?

Logically, absolutely 100% yes. Practically though, we don't need even more unsupported children. And so we deal with this blatant inequality, that at the end of the day no matter what solution we pick will not be 100% equal since the biological roles of childbirth itself aren't equal.

[Azadina]

Don't fuck women / get the snip if you're that worried

Men have to pay
Women have to squeeze it out and raise it

Men get the better deal

Women still end up paying more. Child support payments are not that high, compared to what it costs to raise a child.

[Dezerte]

He made his decision when he impregnated her. He can't own her body. If the father could opt out of child support who do you think would pick up the tab(the child shouldn't be punished because of their father)? We do.

It's really that simple.

[Cheze]

This. While we can play the game of "if he didn't want a kid, he should've used protection" until this thread gets closed, but the truth is, protection isn't 100%, as well there are plenty of opportunities where it isn't available, isn't mentioned, isn't even thought of, woman says her tubes are tied, etc, and at SOME point, some poor unlucky guy is going to win that lotto. If the woman refuses to abort (which is certainly her right), then the man should be allowed to refuse to pay child support because he doesn't want the child. Financial abortion certainly sounds like a good term for it.

Feminists screaming for equality, but men have absolutely no say-so in this matter. Go figure.

you're not the one carrying the pregnancy and attendant medical issues, having the procedure, dealing with the ridiculous public shaming that goes on, etc. So no, you don't get a say. If you're pregnant, you get a say.

[luc54]

Unfortunately, it is. And "having technology" doesn't mean it has to be used. You simply have no right to alter anyone's body other than your own. It's very simple.

PS. Great "unwanted pregnancy = death sentence" comparison.

Well it's true that it's complicated in that sense, but I would say child birth is far risker than abortion. Maybe someone could say what risks does abortion posses over child birth.

[Cheze]

Unfortunately, it is. And "having technology" doesn't mean it has to be used. You simply have no right to alter anyone's body other than your own. It's very simple.

PS. Great "unwanted pregnancy = death sentence" comparison.

I would be curious to see a citation for this 'consent to being pregnant' line of argument

[Deleted]

Don't fuck women / get the snip if you're that worried

Men have to pay
Women have to squeeze it out and raise it

Men get the better deal

Right, "men get the better deal", they have no choice in the matter, they have to pay for something that they do not want and on top of that they can't really start their own family being financially tied to another family already.
And that is not even mentioning the sexism that you bring to the table here. Really, get a clue or something.

[lonely zergling]

He made his decision when he impregnated her. He can't own her body. If the father could opt out of child support who do you think would pick up the tab(the child shouldn't be punished because of their father)? We do.

It's really that simple.

Wouldnt the child get punished because of their mother? It was her choice to get the kid while she knew that she gets no support, her choice her consequences.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Well it's true that it's complicated in that sense, but I would say child birth is far risker than abortion. Maybe someone could say what risks does abortion posses over child birth.

Child birth is definitely riskier, but that has nothing to do with the debate. It sounds like your argument wants nothing to do with the woman, but then you start talking about risks to the woman? Why care?

[Mayhem]

Yeah, finally, a thread discussing this was needed for a long time!

[Crispin]

I agree that the father should be able to some kind of legal abortian within the timeframe of an actual abortian, and ofcourse loose any rights etc. over the child, its obviously not a planned pregnancy in such a case, and the girl will be aware of the circumstances while still having the option to abort. Obviously forcing a physical abort is out of the question.

[s_bushido]

If a woman can choose (not) to abort without father's consent, why can't father choose not to pay child support if he wants her to do an abortion but she refuses? Either that or he should be able to stop the abortion but take full responsibility for the child once it's born.

Wouldn't that make the playing field equal?

Because biology isn't equal. And until there's a way for it not to involve removing the woman's choice of what happens to her body, men are going to have to deal with the shitty reality of the situation.

[the game]

It's a double standard. simple as that.

[Dezerte]

Wouldnt the child get punished because of their mother? It was her choice to get the kid while she knew that she gets no support, her choice her consequences.

Having a child is not something you can do alone, it requires by definition that both consent to it (unprotected sex). At best, the mother is equally at fault - but since it's her body (bodily autonomy) the mother's decision trumps the father's.

[Deleted]

He made his decision when he impregnated her. He can't own her body. If the father could opt out of child support who do you think would pick up the tab(the child shouldn't be punished because of their father)? We do.

It's really that simple.

Right, right, she made her decision when she got pregnant....
The child should not be punished because of their mother being a awful woman that can't find a man willing to impregnate her.
Its so easy to turn this around, and they even make more sense that way. If you are really that concerned about who picks up the tab make adoption mandatory, you will see a really sudden decline in single mothers then...