Did Poland and Romania destroy the EU?

[Deleted]

It's no secret that immigration has become a big issue these days and uncontrolled movement of people from different cultures is probably the biggest barrier against European unity.
I'm sure countries like Sweden or the UK would be ok with free movement if it were only from Northern/Western EU countries because they come from similar social/economic backgrounds.

SO I have to ask, would the EU be more unified if large, poorer countries like Poland and Romania were to be kicked out?

[Cyberowl]

It's no secret that immigration has become a big issue these days and uncontrolled movement of people from different cultures is probably the biggest barrier against European unity.
I'm sure countries like Sweden or the UK would be ok with free movement if it were only from Northern/Western EU countries because they come from similar social/economic backgrounds.

SO I have to ask, would the EU be more unified if large, poorer countries like Poland and Romania were to be kicked out?

The problem is people like you like an easy answer to complex problems. I don't know about Romania, but look at the statistics about Polish workers in the UK. More hard-working, lesser unemployment than the British worker, net contributors, contributing more to NHS than taking. The list goes on and on; there is no problem besides some prejudice.

[RH92]

What? Who would clean toilets and your dishes in UK then?

[Kuntantee]

EU is a trade union. You need markets to sell your products. Western and Central Europeans exchange cheap and easy access to markets with the job/immigration opportunities for the poor people of Eastern Europe. I would say it's a double win for the countries with industry and high production potential.

The answer is NO if EU is to stay as a trade union with superficial political power over its members.

[Deleted]

The problem is people like you like an easy answer to complex problems. I don't know about Romania, but look at the statistics about Polish workers in the UK. More hard-working, lesser unemployment than the British worker, net contributors, contributing more to NHS than taking. The list goes on and on; there is no problem besides some prejudice.

Yes, but they also take away housing options, healthcare, childcare and places in schools. They don't speak the official language in public, increase crime rates are loud and don't fully integrate into the culture.
Have you ever heard a lower class polish plumber try and speak english? It literally rakes your ears.

Not to mention the fact that EE are probably the ones that move around Europe the most.
This isn't about prejudice or xenophobia, it is about the possibility that the EU would be better off without those countries in it.
Just think about it for a second: lower immigration numbers along with better quality immigrants who come from the western world, more job opportunities, less crime, less cultural tensions. The EU would become what it should have been in the first place, it would function optimally.
There would be more willingness to cooperate across the EU knowing that millions of people won't move from half a continent away in a couple of years if you're a bit more opened to federalisation.

If the Poles and Romanians can crowd out your workers back home, the problem is not freedom of movement, the problem is your spineless government not protecting local workers by setting up a better minimum wage and enforcing contributions and severe fines for unregistered workers because it is sucking on the companies' tits.

You can't force companies to do that. All businesses have the same primary goal: make more and more profits.
Having no other option but to hire natives is the only way they will ever listen.

[Cyberowl]

Yes, but they also take away housing options, healthcare, childcare and places in schools. They don't speak the official language in public, increase crime rates are loud and don't fully integrate into the culture.
Have you ever heard a lower class polish plumber try and speak english? It literally rakes your ears.

Not to mention the fact that EE are probably the ones that move around Europe the most.
This isn't about prejudice or xenophobia, it is about the possibility that the EU would be better off without those countries in it.
Just think about it for a second: lower immigration numbers along with better quality immigrants who come from the western world, more job opportunities, less crime, less cultural tensions. The EU would become what it should have been in the first place, it would function optimally.
There would be more willingness to cooperate across the EU knowing that millions of people won't move from half a continent away in a couple of years if you're a bit more opened to federalisation.

Well, they are a net benefit to you; so any lack of housing, healthcare, childcare etc. is your government having their priorities wrong and not expanding there. Integration is a two-sided knife. Do you honestly expect them to fully integrate when many British only make fun of Polish plumbers and harass them? Just look at what happened after the referendum.

[Mihalik]

Aaaaaaaaaaaah. More of the dumb, ignorant xenophobia that reared its ugly head up after the Brits and their shitty Xenophobic Referendum.

Yes...add some more fuel to the fire!

[Independent voter]

Putin did. Putin was mad at the EU for the sanctions the EU placed on him for Ukraine and Crimea. He got Russia's long term buddy Assad the Shiite president of Syria to terrorize the Sunni Syrians and drive them fleeing into the EU like cattle. Over a million people, this was enough to destabilize an already shaky EU.

The EU was on shaky ground because of Greece and its debt crisis and yes Romania and Poland and all the other less advantaged countries who were flooding Britain and other EU more advantaged nations with cheap labor.

[Deleted]

Eh I don't understand how forcing them to hire natives is better than making certain there is an even ground between natives and foreigners. They hire Poles now because Poles are willing to work for worse salaries and are willing to work illegally. Excluding factory jobs where you are screwed by globalization,not the EU (force a minimum wage there and they will just leave) you can completely bridge the divide by taking punitive measures against anyone working with unregistered workers or anyone registering workers with payment below the minimum wage. As soon as you do that there will be no advantage to hire a Pole over a British worker (unless ofc he is more skilled and has a better work ethic, but then he is fairly getting the job, isn't he?). Business should make a profit, but not at the expense of the state; right now it is making a profit at the expense of tax payers and the blame is conveniently placed on the cheaper workers instead of the business itself and the government that monumentally fails to regulate them whatsoever.

The British government has a duty to their people first and foremost. The problem is, that so many polish people come to the UK that even if there are qualified natives applying for the job, their chances at finding employment are substantially lower.

[Deleted]

No but they bring shitty food and unnatractive men

[Cyberowl]

Its this false analysis and lack of understanding is why vote leave won.

Let me explain the economics of this.....

You say Polish workers are a benefit. But you fail to mention to WHOM they are a benefit.

Employers. Yes.
Government and Economy. Yes.
Customers. Yes.

The existing private sector worker, which makes up the MAJORITY electorate. NO.

That last sentence is why vote leave won.

Ill leave you go join up the dots if you can. But until that last sentenced is properly addresses, the EU and free movement of labour is destined to fail.

Employers, governments, the economy and the customers benefit from it. How does this contradict my claim of a net benefit and money that could be funneled into NHS, childcare and housing?

Maybe the private sector needs to aim for higher qualifications then? Or just work for the same wages. Won't do either? Your shortcoming; you aren't entitled to anything.

[Deleted]

No but they bring shitty food and unnatractive men

So more of the same then? I'm confused...

[Aggrophobic]

It's no secret that immigration has become a big issue these days and uncontrolled movement of people from different cultures is probably the biggest barrier against European unity.
I'm sure countries like Sweden or the UK would be ok with free movement if it were only from Northern/Western EU countries because they come from similar social/economic backgrounds.

SO I have to ask, would the EU be more unified if large, poorer countries like Poland and Romania were to be kicked out?

You mean people from Poland and Romania actually work while you want the option to sit at home doing nothing and still get payed?
Get an education and stop being lazy.

[Fadeslol]

No but they bring shitty food and unnatractive men

Shitty Food? I was in RO in January. They have better food than America (Unless you eat 100% organic, then it's mostly the same) and Bucharest is a beautiful city. Also if i remember correctly, they are swapping to the Euro pretty soon.

[socialmaker]

From different cultures OP really ? I would understand if you were comparing EU citizens with subsaharian illiterate black people that drink goat blood but are offended if you ask them from eating fish but the above comparison is literally RETARDED (like you). I swear to god all the Romanians and Polish people should have jut let the Huns and Ottomans pillage your "privileged" asses some 5 to 8 centuries ago and we wouldn't have had this conversation.

What really saddens me is that you will see this as as an "attack" or "offensive" while YOU really don't know how this world works, what drives it, what is good and right and how you are being manipulated for someone's agenda.

And let me remind you of this:

[Deleted]

Another xenophobic thread

You do realize that many western European hospitals have to import Eastern European nurses and doctors because they can't find enough of native ones?


I'm so tired of the "hurdur they tuk our jawbs" anti immigration argument.

If you can't find a freakin job, then its your fucking problem, its really not because of immigrants taking away all the oportunities, its because you are to lazy to find a job. If you think you are to good to do a certain job because it doesn't pay enough or something, then don't freakin complain that you can't find a job and certainly don't lay the blame immigrants, because those immigrants work for their money instead of being freakin lazy hypocrites.

/rant

[Deleted]

The problem is people like you like an easy answer to complex problems. I don't know about Romania, but look at the statistics about Polish workers in the UK. More hard-working, lesser unemployment than the British worker, net contributors, contributing more to NHS than taking. The list goes on and on; there is no problem besides some prejudice.

I hate to be that person, but are there facts for that? I honestly don't care too much about the topic just when I used to work for the government, I only got the tail end of those you just knew were after benefits. Leaves a sour taste when that is the only end you see.

[Deleted]

From different cultures OP really ? I would understand if you were comparing EU citizens with subsaharian illiterate black people that drink goat blood but are offended if you ask them from eating fish but the above comparison is literally RETARDED (like you). I swear to god all the Romanians and Polish people should have jut let the Huns and Ottomans pillage your "privileged" asses some 5 to 8 centuries ago and we wouldn't have had this conversation.

What really saddens me is that you will see this as as an "attack" or "offensive" while YOU really don't know how this world works, what drives it, what is good and right and how you are being manipulated for someone's agenda.

And let me remind you of this:

Thank you at least some people on this site aren't xenophobic teenagers that haven't worked a day in their life.

[Deleted]

You mean people from Poland and Romania actually work while you want the option to sit at home doing nothing and still get payed?
Get an education and stop being lazy.

FYI, I graduated two universities and have a stable job. Working towards an MBA.
This has nothing to do with me, I don't care either way anymore.
However, I won't deny that a problem exists and that most of the negative sentiment against the EU stems from EE countries. There is a link between these two.

I swear to god all the Romanians and Polish people should have jut let the Huns and Ottomans pillage your "privileged" asses

Just because they're white and christian doesn't mean we have anything else in common.

[Rehok]

The problem is people like you like an easy answer to complex problems. I don't know about Romania, but look at the statistics about Polish workers in the UK. More hard-working, lesser unemployment than the British worker, net contributors, contributing more to NHS than taking. The list goes on and on; there is no problem besides some prejudice.

+1, People blame immigrants for problems when some are actually caused by the people who have lived here their entire lives. It's also rather sad to see immigrants getting racist stuff shouted at them or beaten up.