[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[Nemesquish]

Is remorseless winter supposed to be multitarget only? It does like literally 0 damage.

I would just try and find someone on here with the Major Arifact trait and ask them what it does with the explosion total.

As of right now I dont think I will use it for anything other than 3+ mobs.

[Coldvibes]

Even with the Major Artifact Trait AND the 3 points for it leading into SF?

That's rough.

[Maxweii]

Is remorseless winter supposed to be multitarget only? It does like literally 0 damage.

Fairly sure it's still one of the best damage for rune cost abilities we have. Looking at my 841 dk (37% mastery and 23,174 str) it does 87,714 damage compared to Obliterates 114,921. Does fairly close to it's damage for half the cost.
That being said it doesn't necessarily mean you should use it in your rotation as you might not be able to fit it in, but damage wise right now it "should" be worth it.

Blizzard said a while ago however that it should be only used in aoe though, so likely it needs to be tuned some.

[Coldvibes]

@Nemesquish

How big of a DPS bonus was the Legendary Bracers? Feels like I'm doing a shell of the DPS you're doing....

[Deleted]

HP Self Sustain while soloing (legion solo content) is still bad imho. Permafrost does help a little and if you have constant easy targets you can abuse dark succor on, but realy on any target that takes longer to kill i see my HP dip way too much for a class that it's fantasy suposed to be "low movement but hardy". Death Strike is realy realy realy bad for its high cost and lowwww heal.

Unholy is even worse, but at least wasting runic power on death coil feels less of a gigantic dps loss than on frost strike...


Been reading about this situation on this forums for over 2 months now and it only got worse with time with slight nerfs, any hope for a tuning pass upwards still ?! /angry

[Maxweii]

HP Self Sustain while soloing (legion solo content) is still bad imho. Permafrost does help a little and if you have constant easy targets you can abuse dark succor on, but realy on any target that takes longer to kill i see my HP dip way too much for a class that it's fantasy suposed to be "low movement but hardy". Death Strike is realy realy realy bad for its high cost and lowwww heal.

Unholy is even worse, but at least wasting runic power on death coil feels less of a gigantic dps loss than on frost strike...


Been reading about this situation on this forums for over 2 months now and it only got worse with time with slight nerfs, any hope for a tuning pass upwards still ?! /angry

Frost has higher survivability than Unholy considering it has access to it's trait which gives 300% increased healing on DS when IBF is active, which works with Dark Succor as well so it's basically a 100% heal and then a ~60% heal after that. If you aren't dieing, then there's no issue with you dipping low. DPS classes as a whole have had their survivability lowered because having them be able to solo huge elite mobs out in the world is silly (and in an expan like Legion where there's huge threats everywhere we shouldn't be able to realistically). If you die to something, you pulled something too powerful/pulled vastly too much (as Frost).

With Unholy it relies heavily on taking stuff down before it even gets to you, doing large amounts of damage at range so the time it's on you is lowered before it's dead and thus makes you take less damage.

[Fenrkyr]

Logs from Xavius tests:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=20

Oh crap, please lets not repeat HFC day 3 again.

[Coldvibes]

I hope that doesn't happen because as Frost DKs we're arguably the slowest DPS class in the game, second only maybe to retard rets who don't spec into Steed.

[Darkhallows]

So quick question for y'all. I didn't play much past getting the Artifact on the Beta, though I'm having a literal blast with the new playstyle. A little confused though, Frostscythe seems powerful, but am I supposed to use it as a replacement for Obliterate, or at points where it can do the most AoE damage? The single-target seems nearly comparable, and they share KM procs, so I felt like it was a one or the other scenario?

Also, is Glacial Advance looking viable? Because that talent looks awesome visually.

[Nemesquish]

@Nemesquish

How big of a DPS bonus was the Legendary Bracers? Feels like I'm doing a shell of the DPS you're doing....

It really depends on the fight, Pure ST I'm going to start testing with the Legendary Oblit belt(15% chance for Oblit to return 2 runes, Yes, RNG god blessed me in Beta and I have both lol)

But for fights with plenty of stacked cleave, Like Dragons...Those bracers put in work with Avalanche .

[Saracens]

It really depends on the fight, Pure ST I'm going to start testing with the Legendary Oblit belt(15% chance for Oblit to return 2 runes, Yes, RNG god blessed me in Beta and I have both lol)

But for fights with plenty of stacked cleave, Like Dragons...Those bracers put in work with Avalanche .

Do you think having RI on both weapons would have helped more or no?

[Maxweii]

So quick question for y'all. I didn't play much past getting the Artifact on the Beta, though I'm having a literal blast with the new playstyle. A little confused though, Frostscythe seems powerful, but am I supposed to use it as a replacement for Obliterate, or at points where it can do the most AoE damage? The single-target seems nearly comparable, and they share KM procs, so I felt like it was a one or the other scenario?

Also, is Glacial Advance looking viable? Because that talent looks awesome visually.

Frostscythe on single target is worth it at (I think it was) 40~% mastery. Two+ targets it obviously wins in damage (with a KM crit) so you basically use Frostscythe on 2+ on the crits with OB on non crits. That being said, if you take Avalanche, using it on non crits is generally the idea as long as Pillar is up.

Glacial Advance is really great for aoe, it was just fixed so that it doesn't only have a 5% crit chance so it should look even better now. However with that said there's no sims out yet so we don't know where it falls.

It really depends on the fight, Pure ST I'm going to start testing with the Legendary Oblit belt(15% chance for Oblit to return 2 runes, Yes, RNG god blessed me in Beta and I have both lol)

But for fights with plenty of stacked cleave, Like Dragons...Those bracers put in work with Avalanche .

Those bracers are likely much much better with Icecap compared to Avalanche, considering Avalanche was nerfed so much as well as Icecap giving you much more use out of the bracers.

Do you think having RI on both weapons would have helped more or no?

Oh god don't start this shitshow of a discussion again, please Terran think of the ghouls.

[FinestHour]

so is it safe to say sf is the first gold dragon talent to take now over hypothermia

[Maxweii]

so is it safe to say sf is the first gold dragon talent to take now over hypothermia

SF is bugged and does ~3x+ more damage than it should on non single target, Hypothermia is generally still the way to go

[Nemesquish]

Frostscythe on single target is worth it at (I think it was) 40~% mastery. Two+ targets it obviously wins in damage (with a KM crit) so you basically use Frostscythe on 2+ on the crits with OB on non crits. That being said, if you take Avalanche, using it on non crits is generally the idea as long as Pillar is up.

Glacial Advance is really great for aoe, it was just fixed so that it doesn't only have a 5% crit chance so it should look even better now. However with that said there's no sims out yet so we don't know where it falls.



Those bracers are likely much much better with Icecap compared to Avalanche, considering Avalanche was nerfed so much as well as Icecap giving you much more use out of the bracers.



Oh god don't start this shitshow of a discussion again, please Terran think of the ghouls.

Yea, I wont touch the RI thing, Irrelevant, But I dislike Icecap due to Horn Desync, Horn is far too strong and with that insane amount of AP from it and Pillar, Avalanche still trucks.

Need more people to post logs with other talents, Everyone else in other Top 20 guilds can barely break 200k on the same fights I'm doing 260-280.

[Coldvibes]

I'm in that boat as well, Xavius was hard to break 210+.

I'm beginning to really question how much the legendaries help with what you're showing in logs though.

[Maxweii]

Personal feeling on how Icecap works doesn't denote that Avalanche had a hefty nerf and thus doesn't work as well as Icecap does (especially with a 25% mastery boost every time you use pillar). You can essentially double your Pillar uptime, which is 20% STR and 35% Frost damage increase. Highly highly doubt Avalanche with its current tuning beats that.

[Nemesquish]

I'm in that boat as well, Xavius was hard to break 210+.

I'm beginning to really question how much the legendaries help with what you're showing in logs though.

While the bracers are good, theres no chance they're that large of a dps increase.

Do you have any logs from said night?

[Coldvibes]

We had wipes mostly in p1/p2 due to people not understanding blades, so that's about the extent of the information I have, is there intense AoE towards the end?

[FinestHour]

what we did was just move xavius to the largest clump of tentacles and just burned him fast with passive cleave