Fury Legion Discussion

[Archimtiros]

Which is why I said it is a work in progress, but I'll stay away from this in the future. Sorry. Just wanted to try and help get something started to help as much as I can.

You're cool, I'm just offering advice seeing this same project attempted many times before. I'd suggest starting out incrementally, leave fields that we don't know blank, rather than filling in everything with the same template (to stop people from automatically thinking Carnage is better than Massacre for every fight, or asking why Carnage is better than Massacre for fights with extended Execute/burn phases), and research mechanics. For example, Chom Anomaly will probably favor Shockwave over Double Time due to the series of add spawns which need to be locked down.

[Creatinebrah]

does anyone the spell ID for Enrage? I'm trying to add it to WeakAuras but it's not recognizing it.

[Archimtiros]

does anyone the spell ID for Enrage? I'm trying to add it to WeakAuras but it's not recognizing it.

You can find it on wowhead. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=13046/enrage

Though you shouldn't need the spell id, it should pick up by buff name all on it's own. Make sure it's set to player/buff.

[Recom]

does anyone the spell ID for Enrage? I'm trying to add it to WeakAuras but it's not recognizing it.

184362

/10c

[Creatinebrah]

thanks guys, got it!

- - - Updated - - -

I'll give my 2 cents until Archi can come in with a concrete answer.

1.) ER/DT/Av/FC or Warpaint/Carn/IR/DR. War Machine is extremely good when you can keep high uptime on it, such as dungeons. Its usefulness in raids will be determined on how much uptime you can have on it. Frenzy is probably about equal to Inner Rage now for single target since the RB nerf, but I'll need to see official numbers first.

2.) WM or ER/DT/WB/FC or Warpaint/Carn/IR/BS or DR. Once again, War Machine is extremely good when you can keep high uptime on it, so you will use it any time you can do that. The main choice here comes down to Dragon Roar vs Bladestorm, where Dragon Roar will probably be stronger for frequent burst Aoe and Bladestorm being stronger for infrequent burst AoE without too much delaying Bladestorm usage.

3.) http://legion.wowhead.com/artifact-c...PhAz4wM-QDVNAQ is the most optimal path getting you to your major traits the quickest. I believe Rage of the valarjar is the highest DPS increase so get that first then work toward Odyn's Champion.

4.) Sarri has some for Arms, and I believe Archi is working on some for Fury, or will in the future if not already.

any updates to this?

[Warriorsarri]

As that's a 4part question/answer, which part are you looking for an update on?

[Khelon]

This post is mostly towards the current fury topic in the arms thread, so if you want to talk about it please continue it here. Also keep in mind that my post is mostly about PVE. Whatever you guys are having issues with in PvP does not interest me when your survivability there heavily depend on how good class balance is (which isnt good at all atm).

Taking 30% damage increased while enraged is a big weakness, its not something that is countered enough by the baseline skills of fury. Having like 30% more hp than everyone else will help for moments of burst or moments when massive aoe healing cooldowns are used as it most likely will overheal anyway. Warpaint will be the default choice as fury does not need to use heroic leap charge for rage gen and as long as you dont need heroic leap every 30 sec rather than 30. So by default you should look at it as 20% extra damage taken rather than 30%.

Regardless Blizzard is going with a design where tier sets and legendaries is mandatory to eliminate some of the downsides of certain specs. This also counts towards your survivability, but we are less likely to give up a DPS legendary in the first two raid tiers if we had the option to pick our best 2.


There are 3 legendaries that count towards survivability for Fury.

• Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus - This is probably the worst one and everyone can obtain it. Regardless it is a little stronger for fury than the rest as it will count your max hp

• Mannoroth's Bloodletting Manacles - This is the only legendary I think will have a nerf on launch once Fury warriors obtain it. You gain rage really fast and you spend a lot of rage compared to live. The more haste you have, the stronger this will become & if this isnt designed with future difficult content in mind, I cant see it surviving without a nerf. Arms can use this one, but as long as you arent using a deadly calm build where you spam focused rage and hamstring, fury will probably gain a lot more from this than arms.

• Kazzalax, Fujieda's Fury - Not much to say on this one. It was already powerful before the increased healing taken effect was added. With this item alone and warpaint the difference between fury and arms should not be that big.

In the other thread the examples of showing that fury is a healing spongle was used without legendary cloak and the talent. But the example did not count towards the fact that fury will gain some health back by just using bloodthirst (again this is from a pve stand point).

This is how it will look like when you pick warpaint and have the legendary cloak:

Action 1 - 800 damage.

• Arms is reduced to 200/1000, or 20%.
• Fury is reduced to 340/1300, or 26%

Action 2 - 800 healing.

• Arms is healed up to 1000/1000, or 100%.
• Fury is healed up to 1240/1300, or 95.3%. (Fury would have at least used one bloodthirst by now, so you gain another 4%)

So you can see here that if the heal both players obtained was exactly 800, fury would still end up at higher health pool than arms (not going by %). If it was an overheal fury would probably end up at max hp.

Action 3 - 800 damage.

• Arms is reduced to 200/1000, or 20%.
• Fury is reduced to 280/1300, or 21.5%

Once you obtain this item the difference is really minimal. There is no point adding in defensive stance (as fury can choose not to use bloodthirst and take normal damage similar to how arms lose dps sitting in defensive stance) & both specs have a baseline cooldown that would help a lot in this situation. You are probably not going to take 80% of your hp twice within 3 actions in pve anyway and if you are you would have used your cooldown for it. In that situation fury's cooldown would be stronger.

I hope this wall of text clears up some of the issues most people have with enrage increased damage taken.

[Archimtiros]

There are 3 legendaries that count towards survivability for Fury.

• Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus - This is probably the worst one and everyone can obtain it. Regardless it is a little stronger for fury than the rest as it will count your max hp

• Mannoroth's Bloodletting Manacles - This is the only legendary I think will have a nerf on launch once Fury warriors obtain it. You gain rage really fast and you spend a lot of rage compared to live. The more haste you have, the stronger this will become & if this isnt designed with future difficult content in mind, I cant see it surviving without a nerf. Arms can use this one, but as long as you arent using a deadly calm build where you spam focused rage and hamstring, fury will probably gain a lot more from this than arms.

• Kazzalax, Fujieda's Fury - Not much to say on this one. It was already powerful before the increased healing taken effect was added. With this item alone and warpaint the difference between fury and arms should not be that big.

It's easy to underestimate how strong these legendaries are as well.

The Manacles at least double your healing. I recently obtained them on beta and despite my initial derision, I can say that they're pretty freaking awesome when it comes to dealing with PvP quests, where healing is halved, and soloing the "Danger" world quests, which is all but otherwise impossible for most other non-tank specs (depending on the mob in question).

Also worth consideration, and as I've brought up before, is Fighter Chow. While something you're not likely to have in large supply early on in the leveling process, it's a godsend when you start dealing with more difficult solo content, such as Suramar as a fresh 110, or previously noted PvP/World Quests. While this doesn't do anything for your in-combat healing, Fury largely has that covered anyway. This stuff is cheap to make and renders Second Wind trivial for both specs.

[HordeFanboy]

I guess fury will have next nerfs in upcoming build.

[Ultramad]

It's easy to underestimate how strong these legendaries are as well.

The Manacles at least double your healing. I recently obtained them on beta and despite my initial derision, I can say that they're pretty freaking awesome when it comes to dealing with PvP quests, where healing is halved, and soloing the "Danger" world quests, which is all but otherwise impossible for most other non-tank specs (depending on the mob in question).

Also worth consideration, and as I've brought up before, is Fighter Chow. While something you're not likely to have in large supply early on in the leveling process, it's a godsend when you start dealing with more difficult solo content, such as Suramar as a fresh 110, or previously noted PvP/World Quests. While this doesn't do anything for your in-combat healing, Fury largely has that covered anyway. This stuff is cheap to make and renders Second Wind trivial for both specs.

I'll chime in on the Neck piece as I've obtained that on my Warrior(much to my dismay). The neck is seemingly great because you wouldn't think 5 seconds is a very long time right? Well once you enter combat attempting to get this thing to trigger takes an eternity. I've had good and bad times with this neck. It's almost impossible to get it to work for anything but the initial pull in open world combat. Even in instances I don't seem to see it come up much just because incidental damage is almost always going on. Sure 25% of your health though if you can engage something when the shield goes up initially, it's fantastic.

The last part of the neck that I dislike is the buff timer. It's a 30 second shield. Most times pulls aren't happening around your silly little personal shield and if you go into combat with 5 seconds left, you're probably going to not be seeing this for a while. Overall I'd say it's a pretty lackluster legendary and if it wasn't for the ilvl I really wouldn't use it.

[Archimtiros]

I'll chime in on the Neck piece as I've obtained that on my Warrior(much to my dismay). The neck is seemingly great because you wouldn't think 5 seconds is a very long time right? Well once you enter combat attempting to get this thing to trigger takes an eternity. I've had good and bad times with this neck. It's almost impossible to get it to work for anything but the initial pull in open world combat. Even in instances I don't seem to see it come up much just because incidental damage is almost always going on. Sure 25% of your health though if you can engage something when the shield goes up initially, it's fantastic.

The last part of the neck that I dislike is the buff timer. It's a 30 second shield. Most times pulls aren't happening around your silly little personal shield and if you go into combat with 5 seconds left, you're probably going to not be seeing this for a while. Overall I'd say it's a pretty lackluster legendary and if it wasn't for the ilvl I really wouldn't use it.

Well it's not meant to trigger in combat. It's meant to trigger out of combat, and give you a 25% health shield. It's basically an absorption based Second Wind, and similar to Second Wind, it's simply not going to trigger in content where you're frequently taking damage.

The whole idea of these legendaries is that you use them as appropriate to the content - they're basically equippable talents. Granted, that doesn't mean much early in when you only have one, none, or maybe two if you're extremely lucky, but over time you'll be gaining more - not unlike gaining new talents over the course of leveling a character or gaining new PvP talents over the course of raising your honor level. They're trying to make character customization go beyond the first week of the expansion, which... while different, is not the worst idea in the world.

That said, I agree that the 30s timer on the shield is really annoying. If you haven't already, you should give that feedback directly (and I'd suggest trying to make it a little more productive than "most times pulls aren't happening around your silly little personal shield"). It's definitely not the worst problem in the world, as you don't always need to have the full 30s duration to make use of the full shield, but it can definitely be problematic even in solo/world content.

[Meanshield]

It's easy to underestimate how strong these legendaries are as well.

The Manacles at least double your healing. I recently obtained them on beta and despite my initial derision, I can say that they're pretty freaking awesome when it comes to dealing with PvP quests, where healing is halved, and soloing the "Danger" world quests, which is all but otherwise impossible for most other non-tank specs (depending on the mob in question).

Also worth consideration, and as I've brought up before, is Fighter Chow. While something you're not likely to have in large supply early on in the leveling process, it's a godsend when you start dealing with more difficult solo content, such as Suramar as a fresh 110, or previously noted PvP/World Quests. While this doesn't do anything for your in-combat healing, Fury largely has that covered anyway. This stuff is cheap to make and renders Second Wind trivial for both specs.

I feel its a major issue that we need legendary items to make up for the fact that we have so much damage taken due to bad class design. Especially when our damage done doesnt reflect damage taken.

[Soulg]

I feel its a major issue that we need legendary items to make up for the fact that we have so much damage taken due to bad class design. Especially when our damage done doesnt reflect damage taken.

Not true in the slightest.

[Roiids]

Well it's not meant to trigger in combat. It's meant to trigger out of combat, and give you a 25% health shield. It's basically an absorption based Second Wind, and similar to Second Wind, it's simply not going to trigger in content where you're frequently taking damage.

The whole idea of these legendaries is that you use them as appropriate to the content - they're basically equippable talents. Granted, that doesn't mean much early in when you only have one, none, or maybe two if you're extremely lucky, but over time you'll be gaining more - not unlike gaining new talents over the course of leveling a character or gaining new PvP talents over the course of raising your honor level. They're trying to make character customization go beyond the first week of the expansion, which... while different, is not the worst idea in the world.

That said, I agree that the 30s timer on the shield is really annoying. If you haven't already, you should give that feedback directly (and I'd suggest trying to make it a little more productive than "most times pulls aren't happening around your silly little personal shield"). It's definitely not the worst problem in the world, as you don't always need to have the full 30s duration to make use of the full shield, but it can definitely be problematic even in solo/world content.

I originally thought this legendary was for PVP but then they said none of them work in PVP so I was like uhhhhhhhhhhh?...

[Deleted]

How come Odyn's Champion only procs off Rampage, while Rage of the Valajar procs off Execute in addition to Rampage? Sort of bad design, no?

[MORGATH99]

when was frenzy nerfed ? its only giving 4 % haste per stack now

and why was it nerfed ?

[Sinnthetic]

When does gaining Artifact Power really really slow down? I was wondering, because I noticed you can get a majority of the important Fury Traits around 25ish? Wondering when it would be a good time to start investing into Arms artifact traits as well.

[infinitemeridian]

I feel its a major issue that we need legendary items to make up for the fact that we have so much damage taken due to bad class design. Especially when our damage done doesnt reflect damage taken.

I really don't think the damage taken matters at all. We have great self-healing and more health than other dps classes. Having played around with fury on the PTR, I don't really see a big spike in survivability issues.

[VaevictusVII]

Looking at the tier Bloodbath is on now, and it's 30 second cooldown, is that not a very competitive talent now? From what I can tell it could be on par if not better then frenzy for single target depending on our haste levels?

[Hoodzilla]

Looking at the tier Bloodbath is on now, and it's 30 second cooldown, is that not a very competitive talent now? From what I can tell it could be on par if not better then frenzy for single target depending on our haste levels?

Last I knew inner rage was still top of that tier.