[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[striderZA]

well it depends on what you prefer, im inclined to take cataclysm over reverse entropy for lvling coz popping life tap between mobs shouldnt cause too big of a downtime and then sup for a big ass infernal to aoe tank shit for me but it might change ofc, i can see the reason why taking the others for lvl, serv for the extra burst on elite, sac for extra aoe on multi mobs and infernal(assuming it still has the threatening presence stance) to tank multiple mobs, when it comes to which grimoire to take for lvling it comes down to preference.

I don't know, it doesn't feel like the Infernal can tank as much damage as the Voidwalker can. That's mainly why I prefer Service for leveling.

[Deleted]

I don't know, it doesn't feel like the Infernal can tank as much damage as the Voidwalker can. That's mainly why I prefer Service for leveling.

my main concern is that the old void lord had the void shield that allowed your pet to build aggro while focusing on 1 target at a time, dunno if the normal void walker has been giving that, maybe im just overly concerned with pulling aggro from mobs.

[Gaidax]

@Gaidax: you like sac for leveling? I honestly hadn't messed with it too much, found I preferred serv over sup and just generally liked having the tank pet as it let me get through a lot of situations where I'd otherwise have died (pulling ludicrous amounts of mobs, or elites that hit like trucks etc).

It does not really matter. leveling even with alpha basic gear of ilvl 680 was a breeze anyway, I simply prefer not to have pet around and sacrifice cleaves - the only way you ever will have trouble if you overpull and sacrifice is best for exactly that situation with it's AoE and on top of it - it massively buffs Dark Pact - it's like twice powerful with Sacrifice. I currently have like 1.7 million HP and my Dark Pact is 1.5 million shield, half that amount with pet. In my experience, you are basically unkillable by mobs for 20 seconds with that shield.

But honestly, if you do it right - regular mobs will be dead before they get through you Soul Leech anyway.

As I previously mentioned, the only cases where I used pet ever was Voidwalker anyway for elites not intended to be soloed.

[Dastey]

So I'm thinking of two builds. First for leveling: backdraft, reverse entropy, shadowfury, eradication, dark pact, service and soul conduit. And then Build 2 for dungeons: shadowburn, mana tap, demon skin, soul harvest, demonic circle, service and soul conduit.

I can highly recommend Shadowburn and Wreak Havoc for leveling. I tried on beta and just marked the first mob I say with havoc. Then I would conflagrate and shadowburn pull more mobs.
I could tank 15 mobs and never lose my Soul Leech shield (with improved Soul Leech talent).

[Turturin the Warlock]

well it depends on what you prefer, im inclined to take cataclysm over reverse entropy for lvling coz popping life tap between mobs shouldnt cause too big of a downtime and then sup for a big ass infernal to aoe tank shit for me but it might change ofc, i can see the reason why taking the others for lvl, serv for the extra burst on elite, sac for extra aoe on multi mobs and infernal(assuming it still has the threatening presence stance) to tank multiple mobs, when it comes to which grimoire to take for lvling it comes down to preference.

Life tap is almost never necessary. You end up casting ember spenders so much that you just don't need it. Take reverse entropy if you like the cast time reduction on chaos bolts. Taking it for mana management is solving a nonexistent issue

[Deleted]

Life tap is almost never necessary. You end up casting ember spenders so much that you just don't need it. Take reverse entropy if you like the cast time reduction on chaos bolts. Taking it for mana management is solving a nonexistent issue

yeah, which was why i was inclined to take cataclysm over reverse entropy just for the extra aoe burst which is always nice for when you pull multiple targets.

[Zerach8]

wreak havoc seem the perfect talent for leveling, kill fast and never pull too much, not sure what is better looking at cata vs reverse entropy and shadowburn vs backdraft.
Wreak havoc with shadowburn looks really good, but alas i dont have beta to test it out

[Count Zero]

yeah, which was why i was inclined to take cataclysm over reverse entropy just for the extra aoe burst which is always nice for when you pull multiple targets.

Stuff like that never lines up for me. I hate any cooldowns for leveling/questing.

[Baconeggcheese]

But honestly, if you do it right - regular mobs will be dead before they get through you Soul Leech anyway.

You must do some small pulls xD

I'm probably going to be leveling in a group anyway, so it won't really matter. I was just surprised as sac doesn't seem as advantageous this time around.

[Gaidax]

Well, your mileageay vary, I leveled 4 warlocks to 110 in Alpha/Beta and I can do the whole process in two-three days no hasselino without spending unreal time behind the monitor. If you feel morally obliged to pull 10 mobs at a time - pick Supremacy, your game your rules.


Point is, the only really mandatory talent for leveling is Shadowburn, anything else - your call.

[krittical]

in pre patch what talents would you go with for destro for raiding and is there a basic rotation i can follow at the moment for ptr ty.

[Slashkill]

I'm seriously just tearing apart on what to play in Legion. Affliction is what I was hyped for after I first saw the artifact and then after the movie, but it's probably the most boring spec I've played and it also feels like it deals a lot less damage than Destruction (my Scepter is lvl 16 though, compared to lvl 14 Ulthalesh).

Destruction is fun and it feels kinda smooth, but it has no AoE whatsoever, have to spec quite some talents to be more efficient in AoE situations (the new FnB is killing me, good on AoE and nonexistent in ST fights).

Demo gameplay wise feels awesome, but I'm fcked if I move and it also deals pretty poor damage even with Implosion talent, which feels like a mandatory one for any situation (which is bad).

[Gaidax]

Destruction is fun and it feels kinda smooth, but it has no AoE whatsoever, have to spec quite some talents to be more efficient in AoE situations (the new FnB is killing me, good on AoE and nonexistent in ST fights).

Take Sacrifice, Conduit and stack Rains of Fire (they stack now) - AoE is not bad that way, middle of the pack I'd say.

[Deleted]

Destruction is fun and it feels kinda smooth, but it has no AoE whatsoever, have to spec quite some talents to be more efficient in AoE situations (the new FnB is killing me, good on AoE and nonexistent in ST fights).

im finding that a lot of ppl have failed to grasp the design benefits of destro's talent tree, yes a lot of old baseline abilities has been made talents and it sucks but a lot of those has been improved as talents like shadowburn not being an execute anymore and FnB being free and not get a base dmg reduction. however, if you take FnB, then you'll get nothing from it on a fight like iron reaver or tyrant but giving you the ability to remove something like FnB on a fight like tyrant for something like eradication is a HUGE dps on ST/cleave fights, now i can understand ppl's annoyance with the removal of a lot baseline abilities and not getting new abilities in return but we do get a fair amount of new talents, more than mages if im not mistaken AND you have a better talent tree that can be totally customized to fit your need on a fight which is a sizable benfit as well, i can definately see huge benefits in our talent tree in its legion form, with more than enough benefits to make up the losses.

[Deleted]

if you take FnB, then you'll get nothing from it on a fight like iron reaver or tyrant but giving you the ability to remove something like FnB on a fight like tyrant for something like eradication is a HUGE dps on ST/cleave fights

That seems in the vein of arguing that MF was a good talent.
"If you take MF you'll get nothing from it on a fight like iron reaver or tyrant, but giving you the ability to remove something like MF on tyrant for AV is a huge boost".
You can think about pre-nerf MOP MF if that makes it more applicable since it was actually taken then.

The problem is you're having to dictate whether you want to be an AOE spec or a ST spec pre-fight, allowing zero flexibility for a fight that isn't completely one tune. It's been one of the major gripes some people have had with warlocks in general. Destruction has been moderately flexible but I don't think many people would praise it's ST dps these days, affliction is pretty strong on ST, but any time a fight has multiple mechanics you've got problems like affliction having literally no AOE in it's base toolkit and being better off just ignoring the mechanic and hoping the rest of the raid does it.
I'm not surprised some people are upset when the problem has been passed onto destruction.

[Azzurri]

Is GoSac any good in PvP? I've been using GoService.

[Gaidax]

The problem is you're having to dictate whether you want to be an AOE spec or a ST spec pre-fight, allowing zero flexibility for a fight that isn't completely one tune. It's been one of the major gripes some people have had with warlocks in general. Destruction has been moderately flexible but I don't think many people would praise it's ST dps these days, affliction is pretty strong on ST, but any time a fight has multiple mechanics you've got problems like affliction having literally no AOE in it's base toolkit and being better off just ignoring the mechanic and hoping the rest of the raid does it.
I'm not surprised some people are upset when the problem has been passed onto destruction.

Destruction has a powerful single target if you pick correct talents, Destruction also has a powerful AoE if you pick correct talents.

If you pick a mix of it, you will have fine flexibility.

[Count Zero]

Destruction has a powerful single target if you pick correct talents, Destruction also has a powerful AoE if you pick correct talents.

If you pick a mix of it, you will have fine flexibility.

And I think any serious guild is going to realize that they need to look at encounters and how their specific roster stacks up. I haven't really looked at Legion fights yet (and really it applies a lot more after the opening tier, especially for any xpac with major class changes), but I bet as Legion wears on we'll find we feel more comfortable with our aoe / single target customization (for all the specs, really ... except maybe Demo, its ramp up time really seems to hurt it in every scenario just so bad)

[uffe]

Looks fun.

[Baconeggcheese]

And I think any serious guild is going to realize that they need to look at encounters and how their specific roster stacks up.

Well yeah, I mean we've always allocated classes / specs in such a way. It's just going to be a bit more hyper specialized now than it already was.