My(!) fundamental gripe with Legion PvP

[Deleted]

Haha. It's funny that people want legacy servers so bad but at the same time people like OP are forgetting what it was like playing in Vanilla.

Shadow Priests Shadow Word: Pain could literally take you from 100 to 0. A warlock got all 4 dots on you? Either you got out of combat and ate somehow or you died.

Welcome to PvP, Vanilla style.

It was pretty hard to get out of combat too because they could just spam Fear on you, which didn't break as easily and didn't diminish as quickly either. ^^

[mortry]

It was pretty hard to get out of combat too because they could just spam Fear on you, which didn't break as easily and didn't diminish as quickly either. ^^

Yeah, also nobody seems to remember the cc + bandage combo every class had to learn, otherwise die. Removing self healing on DPS classes is the best thing about this expansion.

[FAILoZOFF]

Personally? Id rather see dedicated healers go away from PvP as well as tanks and have every class/spec its own way on surviving. I get it would be much better solution all around.
But overall, yeah. I dislike Legion PvP experience- for many reasons. Not that i like WoD, and not that I'd back to any previous expansion.

[Flaks]

A lot of people clearly haven't played their classes in ptr or beta.

UH Dk still have ghoul stun and can talent for asphyxiate. They also have a low cd amazing defensive that can be talented. They've barely lost anything AND get necrotic strike back.

Frost dks are more complex than ever with their pvp talents; considering how faceroll the spec has been since it was conceived I'm surprised anyone talks about dumbing down of the game in this context.

For every single thing sub has lost it's gained something else. It is still a huge cc monster except now can run around with super low cd vanish or take another class out of the fight for an extended duration with shadowy duel + the stuns it still has. 3 charges of shadow dance only further increases the skill cap.

Arms has a far more complex rotation than live. It's no worse or better off than it is in WoD in terms of utility though of course it's far worse than MoP. Fury is much improved from live as well with its absurd mobility.

Monks and DH will be perfectly fine in terms of skill cap as well.

Paladins are far and away worse off than WoD. While the judgement window adds some complexity, ret has lost so much utility and mobility that it should seriously get a major retune and edit. They've also stupidly gone back on what is spell stealable so a mage pretty much negates the presence of a ret on any team.

A lot of the utility that plate classes lost was given to their tank specs in an effort to make them relevant. THIS is going to backfire hard. The tank specs deal massive damage, have better mobility than their dps counterparts and bring all the utility they had. Fortunately most don't have slows so that's nice.

I don't play casters much but for the most part they're not too badly off.

Arcane is stupidly overpowered in terms of mobility and the only reason for this is to counteract the stupid amount of mobility they gave some tank specs, leather melee, and fury warriors. Meanwhile the other casters are left SoL in the mobility department.

But a lot of them make up for it in other ways. Casters are absurdly bursty, even the dot based ones. Most have abilities that allow them to be tanky as well such as all warlock specs.

Hunters have been shit on hard. After reigning supreme for so long as kings of utility, all of it has been gutted. SV is the only one that gets traps; traps which used to be used for gaining range...on a melee spec. MM is left with no master's call, no traps, and a silly little disorient that doesn't work half the time; fortunately they get freezing trap...that needs to be casted. It's also got the clunkiest and most undertuned dps rotation. It requires you to get lucky on an autoshot so it can allow you to use arcane shot which allows you use marked shot which allows aimed shot to not do horrible damage. BM has NOTHING for utility and the player character is essentially relegated to uselessness to bring about focus to the pet.

[Transmigration]

I just wish battles lasted longer. Damage is on full purple level and defense feels like we're in leveling greens. It all just feels so wrong. It's true that I've blown people up in one rotation, but it's happened to me too. Resilience was the way to go imo. That's when pvp felt most solid to me. I like to chip away at each other and fight for a victory. Not cross my fingers and use as many abilities as possible in 5 seconds.

[blankfaced]

I'm just gonna' stop here for a sec. I've seen this arguement before and all I can say is you need to check your spellbook and talents. If you only have 2-4 buttons then you've specifically talented into all passives or are simply not using your abilities as you should.

On my Rogue, on Beta, I have roughly 14 buttons that I use very often, that AREN'T major cooldowns. You can add 5 more if you want to add in those, and about another 5 on top of that if you want to count the lesser-used utility. Then roughly double it for arena/focus macros & binds.

I was going to say something like this, i've got like 10-15 abilities i use regularly playing frost not including healthstones and long CDs (1m or longer.) So I'm certain at this point i just play a different game then the OP.

[Deleted]

Yes you can play with just a few buttons , which might drag more people into trying it out. BUT if you got skills you will start pushing many more buttons.
When I play Legion pvp I'm constantly "playing the piano" using all my abilitys , at the right time. In Legion you will see that skills matters , compared to previous pvp, but at the same time you can be competitive without crazy skills, without feeling lost in the dark.
Overall I like the changes, however had to spend some time falling in love with it.

[Nfinitii]

Ppl r nvr happy, they complain of homogenization but the only way to fix it is to prune. We still have months to go so I'm going to wait till after it comes out to complain about balance.

Every class doesn't need heals, I don't understand y classes like rogues, mages and the like can heal themselves. Every class doesn't need stuns or X or Y.

Classes need to have more defined strengths and weaknesses not be lesser or greater versions of each other. Whether they can pull this off properly has yet to be seen.

[Azzurri]

Ppl r nvr happy, they complain of homogenization but the only way to fix it is to prune. We still have months to go so I'm going to wait till after it comes out to complain about balance.

Every class doesn't need heals, I don't understand y classes like rogues, mages and the like can heal themselves. Every class doesn't need stuns or X or Y.

Classes need to have more defined strengths and weaknesses not be lesser or greater versions of each other. Whether they can pull this off properly has yet to be seen.

I find it laughable that people complained about homogenization, and now that they're 'trying' to make each class unique people are crying bloody murder. Now I don't agree with every prune and some specs do feel lack luster, but now every class can't stun or CC you into oblivion, and every class can't self heal all the way up and people are complaining. Every spec should have to play to their strength and now that ever class can't do everything it does take more skill.

Anyways, that's what I think.

[Deleted]

Assassination feels... empty No dispatch, no gouge, no blind, no bomb, no prep and pretty much everything other than Shiv and Trinket is a passive in the PvP tree. That leaves Hemo, DfA or MfD in the main talent tree

Was seriously considering switching to my rogue for this expansion but now I think I'll just stick with my UH DK

[Deleted]

Haha. It's funny that people want legacy servers so bad but at the same time people like OP are forgetting what it was like playing in Vanilla.

Shadow Priests Shadow Word: Pain could literally take you from 100 to 0. A warlock got all 4 dots on you? Either you got out of combat and ate somehow or you died.

Welcome to PvP, Vanilla style.

Actually most warlocks in vanilla were mostly destro and simply had immolate + agony and sometimes (if specced) corr but other than that it was constant fear + seduce (they had different DR after DRs got implemented) so you kept eating conflags and shadowbolts entire time and lock could 1v3. Been there done that as lock

Personally I like a lot changes to DK especially unholy.

[Nfinitii]

I find it laughable that people complained about homogenization, and now that they're 'trying' to make each class unique people are crying bloody murder. Now I don't agree with every prune and some specs do feel lack luster, but now every class can't stun or CC you into oblivion, and every class can't self heal all the way up and people are complaining. Every spec should have to play to their strength and now that ever class can't do everything it does take more skill.

Anyways, that's what I think.

I agree, one thing I think blizzard should do is define each classes/spec strength and weaknesses and exaggerate them, try and take a mix of balance through chaos (sorta like how lol is) and being able to redefine ur some strengths and weakness through talents u can change at the beginning of arena matches.

Either way they needed to get away from everyone has everything so it turns into y bring a ww monk when X and y do it so much better.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

"Feels like a moba"
Then you're doing it very very wrong.

[jackofwind]

Just remove specialization and all talents on Live and you will understand why classes feel dull, because the core is pretty much empty.

Because there isn't supposed to be a "core" anymore. You're either a Destruction Warlock, an Affliction Warlock, or a Demonology Warlock.

You're not just a Warlock anymore, by Blizzard's design. Can't really argue that the core feels weak and shallow when Blizz is basically trying to move away from the core even being a thing.

[Kagthul]

Actually most warlocks in vanilla were mostly destro and simply had immolate + agony and sometimes (if specced) corr but other than that it was constant fear + seduce (they had different DR after DRs got implemented) so you kept eating conflags and shadowbolts entire time and lock could 1v3. Been there done that as lock

Personally I like a lot changes to DK especially unholy.

Corruption was not a talent in Vanilla. It was a 2-second cast, however, unless you took the rank-1 talent that reduced it to instant cast.

They also didnt use Curse of Agony if they were Destro, because DoTs ticking would break Seduce, and Curse of Shadows (which could, at the time, reduce you to negative resists) was FAR more powerful.

[Deleted]

Corruption was not a talent in Vanilla. It was a 2-second cast, however, unless you took the rank-1 talent that reduced it to instant cast.

They also didnt use Curse of Agony if they were Destro, because DoTs ticking would break Seduce, and Curse of Shadows (which could, at the time, reduce you to negative resists) was FAR more powerful.

I think you misunderstood. Spell was baseline with 2s cast and talent with 5pts would make it instant. Destro for pvp didn't take this talent so it didn't cast corr most of the time at all

That was precisely what I meant.
Been a lock since vanilla and still have that lock although benched for dk.

[Deleted]

SNIP
Curse of Shadows (which could, at the time, reduce you to negative resists) was FAR more powerful.

Wasn't it Curse of Elements?

[Morgomir]

nope 2 different curses for different sets of elements, at least till they consolidated them

[Deleted]

Ah of course, thanks!

On a totally unrelated (and on topic note :P) I did a few BGs on the PTR, although it's technically low level in legion, its just a who could press the CD buttons quickest and instagib you competition... that said it was actually quite fun compared to WoD

[RH92]

Because there isn't supposed to be a "core" anymore. You're either a Destruction Warlock, an Affliction Warlock, or a Demonology Warlock.

You're not just a Warlock anymore, by Blizzard's design. Can't really argue that the core feels weak and shallow when Blizz is basically trying to move away from the core even being a thing.

I understand it is their intention, I just don't like it.

Wasn't it Curse of Elements?

Curse of Elements was for Nature, Fire and Frost damage.

Curse of Shadow was for Shadow and Arcane damage.