Will sub be better than asssassination in legion?

[Gateway Ewok]

I fully agree, but tab-rupturing isn't AoE, that's DoT-cleave/multi-DoTing. Assassination will be amazing on council fights / fights with major adds / anything that lasts long enough to rupture and hopefully there will be quite a few in Legion (haven't checked) like you said. When I say AoE I mean something like a dungeon with a decent tank that just keeps pulling and making balls of death; Hellfire Assault type fights, the Ghosts on Socrethar etc. will all be terrible for Assass.

I would argue that tab Rupturing is AoE. Cleave typically means 2-3, but with Assassination's current setup you can get way more than 2-3 Ruptures rolling. I think the highest I've seen in a dungeon is 7-8 concurrent, and I just happened to have run out of targets at that point. That's AoE in my opinion, it just has a ramp-up time. It's also exponential as more Ruptures means more Venomous Wounds procs which leads to more Ruptures. It's AoE, it's just not burst.

You're definitely right about HFA/Socrethar. Luckily, from what I can see in the Legion tier those fights seem to be less common/important than HFC. Additionally, most dungeons of consequence will be Mythic+ where the mobs are scaling in health rather than scaling in number, so Assassination will have an opportunity to spread Ruptures.

if a tank just keeps puling that means you're overgearing the instance in which case it doesnt matter what spec you are.

That is not necessarily true about live WoW, but in Legion with Mythic+ you are probably correct.

[Deleted]

Actually AoE means Area of Effect, so Tab-Rupturing is no typical Aoe xD but with seal fate and fan of knives it will be kind of aoe-ish .

[Soisoisoi]

you dont even need to kill the ghosts on socrethar lel
if a tank just keeps puling that means you're overgearing the instance in which case it doesnt matter what spec you are.

It was an example. Also, you obviously haven't met any decent tanks lol. Gear or not.

[shaunika123]

It was an example. Also, you obviously haven't met any decent tanks lol. Gear or not.

no, you obviously dont know how mythic+ works

[Soisoisoi]

no, you obviously dont know how mythic+ works

Using past examples and you somehow think I'm talking about Mythic+? Use the thing between your ears for a second man.

[shaunika123]

Using past examples and you somehow think I'm talking about Mythic+? Use the thing between your ears for a second man.

we're talking legion, the socrethar thing was an analogy

in legion you wont masspull unless you're outgearing the instance, maybe im not the one not using my brain "man"

[Soisoisoi]

we're talking legion, the socrethar thing was an analogy

in legion you wont masspull unless you're outgearing the instance, maybe im not the one not using my brain "man"

Of course we will, just like every expansion prior.

[shaunika123]

Of course we will, just like every expansion prior.

5man dungeons didnt have infinite scaling and random affixes specifically designed to prevent masspulls before, you know

[Vigilate]

I'm a bit partial to Subtlety with current balance on Legion Beta. Sims and experience from testing are leading me to come to the conclusion that Sub will likely have the edge in Legion. A large part of this is that initial sims are showing that Sub actually scales far better with stats than Assassination.

[Barlylol]

Assass doesn't have AoE, it's literally still just Rupture as many targets as possible. Sub gets 200% Shuriken Storm damage when Stealth or Dance is up. Which with 6+ mobs, is permanently.

This is actually not true, FoK hits for about 40k per target + deadly poison. It's not actually bad burst damage, and when you have multiple targets bleeding you can basically spam FoK.

[Shadow Fox]

Current WarcraftLogs data that I can find and have access into looking shows Assassination ahead of Sub in ST. :<

Sub has some nice Burst DPS though; May be that Sub is the go-to PVP spec, or even world-farming spec?

[Wow]

Current WarcraftLogs data that I can find and have access into looking shows Assassination ahead of Sub in ST. :<

Sub has some nice Burst DPS though; May be that Sub is the go-to PVP spec, or even world-farming spec?

Sub dmg in pvp is gutted. Max pve Finality dfa like 1.5m pvp like 270k and shadowstrike does like 70% less dmg in pvp too.

[Zempai]

As a pve-only sneaker I'm actually willing to take the "pain" playing sub (with the 100% artifactpower) if it leads to be the better spec in heroic and onwards raids. I'd honestly rather do that, than go assa and dump the spec anyways due lower damage by paying a high price to change it all. So it sucks donkey balls very much to make the right decision in the first place, unlike in the current expansion where you just get your tier-bonbon and say 'kay, fak assa I'm gonna nuke shiz nao'.

[Gilor]

In legion dungeons on Beta I'm pulling competitive AOE multi rupturing with Fan being boosted by the poison knives artifact bonus - keeping up with DH/Mages/Hunters at least in the ones I've done. When we start overgearing the content those other classes will probably pull ahead when the trash is dying faster and our burst aoe weakness shows up.

In raid testing of normal Nighthold scaled up to ilvl 850 and with full artifact Assassination was topping single target easily and was middle of the pack on aoe (potentially due to slackness on my part to be fair.) Potentially Sub will scale better over the length of the expansion but I would hope that Blizzard would address the scaling issue as we move forward through patches, either way unless they nerf hard in the coming weeks Assassination will be the strongest spec for the first two raids imo.

[Krazzorx]

Sub does have quite the large advantage of being the best target swapping melee in game because of shadow strike teleport. Which seems to be what T19 has the most of. Eg, those adds on Xavius P2 that try to channel on him. Sub will be amazing at handling that (70% slow doesn't hurt either)

[Reposed]

As far as pre-patch is concerned, I just tried both Sub & Assass against a healer (lvl 100 of course), and asked him to just stand there and heal while I used him as a target dummy, and the results were that Sub couldn't get him much lower than 70% health, but Assass melted him to 1% fairly easily.

Just thought I would throw that out there in case anyone cares. :P

[kalaratic]

As far as pre-patch is concerned, I just tried both Sub & Assass against a healer (lvl 100 of course), and asked him to just stand there and heal while I used him as a target dummy, and the results were that Sub couldn't get him much lower than 70% health, but Assass melted him to 1% fairly easily.

Just thought I would throw that out there in case anyone cares. :P

makes sense, sub doesn't have burst anymore and mut got a burst cd through exsang

[Reposed]

makes sense, sub doesn't have burst anymore and mut got a burst cd through exsang

I'm finding that Rupture & Internal Bleeding DoTs are ticking for the same, or more, than Shadowstrike, and a Garrote from Stealth almost as hard. The damage isn't even remotely close - even when the stats greatly favor Sub in current gear, it just isn't close at all.

[minteK917]

I'm finding that Rupture & Internal Bleeding DoTs are ticking for the same, or more, than Shadowstrike, and a Garrote from Stealth almost as hard. The damage isn't even remotely close - even when the stats greatly favor Sub in current gear, it just isn't close at all.

Its blizzard way of making assa viable with my its lack of utility. Its a tunnel spec, you play it like an arm warrior optimize the exang windows on target and keep pressure on. Switch target and apply pressure to more then one outside cooldown. Even at 110 its how you play assa you just add kingsbane to your ur burst window. Outlaw is the more balanced of our 3 spec in pvp it does pretty well in every way. Cannon barrage is even good burst now and the ranged slow and stun is nice. Plus plunder is huge at 110. I think my opener with plunder, canonball, dreadblades is actually a bigger spike of damage then assa does, assa window is just bigger and cooldowns are shorter.

[Jaronicity]

I feel like Assassination should have always been the "tunnel spec" it's jsut that now Blizzard is re-defining that line a bit more. If I am meant to tunnel something into the ground then for sure I'll have something like Vendetta or Agonizing Poison or Exsanguinate. Likely why they removed Blood Sweat; it was being designed as a tunnel spec but couldn't give them "lazy" aoe as well. Sub's prime attribute has moved from it's burst to it's ridiculous mobility and (less) control. Also, found Sub has more survivability which is likely due to it's CC and being able to bounce around. I felt like a fish out of water when vanish or evasion wasn't up while playing Assassination. A fish that could 100-0 something in about 5 seconds, but a fish nonetheless.