[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[Senel]

There's no reason Frost shouldn't be the top spec for a tier or 2.

The same argument could be made for every spec. They aren't done tuning yet. With everything giving bonus to frost dmg (or similar) it would scale too much like was said.

[Nemesquish]

The same argument could be made for every spec. They aren't done tuning yet. With everything giving bonus to frost dmg (or similar) it would scale too much like was said.

They same argument CANT be made for every spec, Which is the part you didn't quote.

They didn't have to nerf Cold as Ice, 10% Frost isn't going to get out of hand later in the expansion, The NbtB makes perfect sense though.

[Veiled Shadow]

They same argument CANT be made for every spec, Which is the part which you didn't quote.

They didn't have to nerf Cold as Ice, 10% Frost is going to get out of hand later in the expansion, The NbtB makes perfect sense though.

Kind of off-topic, do you possibly know how well Breath of Sindragosa is doing compared to the alternatives on 1-2 targets in your testing? Thanks!

[Gathed]

They same argument CANT be made for every spec, Which is the part which you didn't quote.

They didn't have to nerf Cold as Ice, 10% Frost is going to get out of hand later in the expansion, The NbtB makes perfect sense though.

Well they kinda did, every trait which can be relic'd has to be of equivalent value. 'Cold as Ice' gave a flat 3% bonus too all frost damage, whereas something like 'Band to the Bone' was only giving 1% to single target per point spent.

[Nemesquish]

Kind of off-topic, do you possibly know how well Breath of Sindragosa is doing compared to the alternatives on 1-2 targets in your testing? Thanks!

The closer launch gets, The less I wanna play tbh, I'm already kinda burnt out on it, But 2 Target it will absolutely be a strong option, but I still see GA being the go to with this scaling

[Zoopercat]

The Ask Mr. Robot simulator is now updated with the latest patch for all DPS specs.

As I mentioned last week, you can verify all of the updates. For example, the Icy Talons talent is reduced to 10% (sorry for all of your nerfs!). You can find that in the Buff section, under the attack speed area.

The artifact trait, Apocalypse, is also updated, to deal 900% of weapon damage. You can find this under the damage section. The first number in the formula, 9, is a 900% increase.

If you want to test out artifacts, you can easily edit them or add/remove relics in the simulator. Just click on any part of the artifact interface to change it - that easy. Here's a 1-minute video showing all of the character customizations in the simulator.

One other DK-related update: we did a bunch of work on the Frost (and Unholy) rotation and it is starting to look pretty good (check it out here). Not perfect, but pretty solid. If you want to play with it, you need to login, click the copy button, then edit it (I have a 5 min video explaining rotation logic and stuff).

Bug fixes since last week: we fixed a bug with Razorice that made it do too much damage.

If you have questions, you can also hit us up in our discord chat channel.

[HordeFanboy]

blizz nerfed this spec to the ground. now even fury has more dmg

[Deleted]

blizz nerfed this spec to the ground. now even fury has more dmg

Do you post this kind of stuff in every Class thread?

[psyquest]

I have yet to see actual parses with top players (not people testing a class) that shows frost as bad.

In fact I have yet to see any final parses... because tuning is not finished.

Rest assured that tuning is not done, wont be done with prepatch and wont be complete with the release. Even AFTER the release there will be more tuning.

One thing I can guarantee:
Blizzard is doing their best to keep all spec withing a class close enough so that player can play what they like.

Obviously if you think that you are in top 20 guilds (which most posters here are not) then you are not even complaining because you will be playing the best CLASS possible, not just the best SPEC.

[Piz813]

The Ask Mr. Robot simulator is now updated with the latest patch for all DPS specs.

As I mentioned last week, you can verify all of the updates. For example, the Icy Talons talent is reduced to 10% (sorry for all of your nerfs!). You can find that in the Buff section, under the attack speed area.

The artifact trait, Apocalypse, is also updated, to deal 900% of weapon damage. You can find this under the damage section. The first number in the formula, 9, is a 900% increase.

If you want to test out artifacts, you can easily edit them or add/remove relics in the simulator. Just click on any part of the artifact interface to change it - that easy. Here's a 1-minute video showing all of the character customizations in the simulator.

One other DK-related update: we did a bunch of work on the Frost (and Unholy) rotation and it is starting to look pretty good (check it out here). Not perfect, but pretty solid. If you want to play with it, you need to login, click the copy button, then edit it (I have a 5 min video explaining rotation logic and stuff).

Bug fixes since last week: we fixed a bug with Razorice that made it do too much damage.

If you have questions, you can also hit us up in our discord chat channel.

sooooo i played with this for 15 minutes on the throne and did default most things. then changed talents around and default ST rotation
you have UH as 15k and the best I saw Frost was 11.3k.....

on a side note I did see a few guys this morning in Beta running shattering strikes and Razor Ice in main hand.

[Maxweii]

sooooo i played with this for 15 minutes on the throne and did default most things. then changed talents around and default ST rotation
you have UH as 15k and the best I saw Frost was 11.3k.....

on a side note I did see a few guys this morning in Beta running shattering strikes and Razor Ice in main hand.

That's been the norm to have Shattering Strikes and use main hand Razorice (also lets Frostscythe apply RI to anything it hits) for a while now

[Piz813]

That's been the norm to have Shattering Strikes and use main hand Razorice (also lets Frostscythe apply RI to anything it hits) for a while now

thought it was just this week as there is no hard data yet saying SS 2xRI will be top. Tried it on a dummy and still a fan of Icy Talons... just like the attack speed more personally.

most players at 110 I inspect at Archerus didnt make the change till Wednesday. majority still had FC on main hand and muderous or talons.

[Maxweii]

thought it was just this week as there is no hard data yet saying SS 2xRI will be top. Tried it on a dummy and still a fan of Icy Talons... just like the attack speed more personally.

most players at 110 I inspect at Archerus didnt make the change till Wednesday. majority still had FC on main hand and muderous or talons.

Double Razorice isn't even what I was talking about, but it was intended.

If people didn't have Razorice on mainhand, and used Frostscythe, they were 100% wrong. Frostscythe wouldn't apply RI from the offhand, so it has to be on the main hand (that and there's almost no diff FC on either hand)

[Piz813]

Double Razorice isn't even what I was talking about, but it was intended.

If people didn't have Razorice on mainhand, and used Frostscythe, they were 100% wrong. Frostscythe wouldn't apply RI from the offhand, so it has to be on the main hand (that and there's almost no diff FC on either hand)

OK i was under the impression Shattering Strikes works best with double RI runeforge... that's what I meant about waiting for the numbers in a few weeks.

another did say even with Fallen Crusader nerf to 15%, its still 15% Strength.

Have not messed with Frost Scythe since the PTR so have no comment or opinion on it. Mooniara said its damage is with your MH anyways.

[Maxweii]

OK i was under the impression Shattering Strikes works best with double RI runeforge... that's what I meant about waiting for the numbers in a few weeks.

another did say even with Fallen Crusader nerf to 15%, its still 15% Strength.

Have not messed with Frost Scythe since the PTR so have no comment or opinion on it. Mooniara said its damage is with your MH anyways.

I dunno where you're going with this now lol. I pointed out both things that you then said more or less counter statements to, when you were asking about them more or less.

But yes if it's with your main hand you want Razorice on it so it can proc Razorice on every target hit like was mentioned

[Markulino]

I've been lurking this topic for quite a while and I'm keeping a nice track of how things are going on, but one thing I can't find...

Does anyone know if BoS is viable (with a BoS oriented talent tree) as the lv100 talent to play when the pre patch hits? I'm not that curious about legion because our artifact has some really impactfull traits that'll buff some especific things.

[Vicus]

I've been lurking this topic for quite a while and I'm keeping a nice track of how things are going on, but one thing I can't find...

Does anyone know if BoS is viable (with a BoS oriented talent tree) as the lv100 talent to play when the pre patch hits? I'm not that curious about legion because our artifact has some really impactfull traits that'll buff some especific things.

If you are kitted out for DW frost on live, copy over to PTR and give the various options a go. That would give you a better idea if it is viable for you, and your set up. It still lines up with the ring, so I would think it would do good enough at 100.

[Piz813]

I've been lurking this topic for quite a while and I'm keeping a nice track of how things are going on, but one thing I can't find...

Does anyone know if BoS is viable (with a BoS oriented talent tree) as the lv100 talent to play when the pre patch hits? I'm not that curious about legion because our artifact has some really impactfull traits that'll buff some especific things.

100% yes. BoS was one of the buffs we got this week and with high crit and not taking Icy talons, you can have it rolling for a while. More then UH BoS live play I feel! Obliteration will be useless with 4 piece.

on a side note I finally got Skada and can see what I am doing now. Frost is looking very very good! some weapon relics and traits and its shaping up! just got 4/4 OB Crit damage and working on Frozen Orb with 1/4 HB 10% damage increase. Glacial Advance is hitting like a truck now too. saw some crits over 140k. I am level 101 still with 37% crit and 725 mastery

did not get Apoc yet but tried UH with a Mythic Archie sword. meh. the AoE is incredible and Clawing Shadows is cool at range. Still have faith in frost and we will have to see at 110 what things look like

[Darkovan]

For those of you with beta access - i havn't seen anyone mention frozen pulse since the nerf to freezing fog trait and changes to its proc rate. On the ptr its significantly ahead of freezing fog for me now. Is the artifact swinging it back towards freezing fog again?
Also horn of winter is now ahead of both Frozen pulse and freezing fog, but its just ptr testing...

The tests i have been doing for frozen pulse on PTR revolve around having options for orphaned runes, either the 3rd rune which recharges seperatly or runic empowerment procs.
I found my best bet was to take Frost Scythe and glacial advance and any time i have orphaned runes i use Frost Scythe if KM is up to burn the rune or Glacial Advance/Remoreless Winter if its not. The idea is obviously to keep alll your runes down to max frozen pulse up time.

Also, i have been using the beta askmrrobot and it has double RI well ahead of RI/RFC for all talent choices - but particularly so with Icy Talons, are you getting the same results on beta? (the results are coming up: Frost strike mainhand - razorice - frost strike offhand -> everything else with icy talons).

Other things i noticed on ask mr robot: Double RI is doing huge amounts of damage, so much so that icy talons combined with haste is putting it almost equal to and sometimes exceeding frost strike mainhand. In the testing on their sim i found the balance point to be around 30/20 crit/haste and 60mastery.
I dont have beta access so i cant compare the results to actual game play but if you have the time and you love simcraft could you play around with it and let me know if the results are accurate compared to in game play?

It will actually hurt my soul if maxing razorice damage becomes the core mechanic of the spec.

My testing on the sim for double RI vs RI/RFC results are like this.
with double RI the damage is always consistent.
With RFC on offhand IF the procs lines up with pillar useages, its ahead of double RI by around 5-10%
With RFC on offhand and the procs DONT line up with pillar useages, its BEHIND by roughly 5-10%
Holding pillar for procs is a net loss almost always.

[Maxweii]

Frozen Pulse isn't really talked about because it's well, not practical to use. You're going out of your way to make sure that you can use it. Most of the people I've talked to with beta who have tried it had a hard time getting uptime on it because you have a lot of resources as Frost baseline, so it makes it hard to ever be without runes.