[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

Guys, let's talk hidden destro artifact trait, I can't believe no one has found it yet.

Help me look for it , as you can see I'm a little obsessed with finding out our hidden traits as I find it somewhat fun, and blizzard stated all artifacts have a hidden trait yet warlock weapons are one of the few left who haven't been discovered, this is lazy af guys gotta man up and find those sneaky hidden traits.

According to wowhead the affliction hidden trait is the old killing souls refunds mana mechanic which was changed, so i believe there's still a trait for affliction.
While demo's hidden trait seems to be the talking skull ( mehh ) and no one has a clue what hidden trait destro has.

So far hidden traits are either visual , mechanical or Lore based/ flavor , for example the mages' felo'melorn provides the visual hidden trait which sets corpses ablaze and chars them black; the fury warrior is given a second chance to win a battle he has lost , delaying his death for 8 secs ( and healing him back to 50% if he kills the target before the buff ends ) so that's mechanical.

Now since the first 2 are easily noticeable I figured destro's hidden trait is of the lore based or flavor type hidden trait, which means things like balance druid's hidden trait which allows balance druids to see certain mobs in the world with a certain debuff and if cleansed grants them artifact power.

So the closest bet is that our hidden destro trait involves some sort of interaction with an npc or mob in the world, maybe we're friendly with certain demons or we can enter hidden portals that only we can see, things like that could've slipped the eyes since you would normally think everyone can use/see those.

So help me find the truth, hidden trait hunter league unite!

PS: this feature alone is more fun than the past 2 expansions combined ,for me at least.

Are you sure it is implemented yet? I find it hard to believe that people wouldn't notice it if it existed.

[Aldeen]

With 15.38% haste you will always have 3 charges every time you need to refresh Immolate. Completely doable, and some insane dot damage.

Not quite; 15.38% haste is the haste you'd need to recharge within Immolate's pandemic'd duration. Assuming you let it tick out to get the max out of it (since clipping early means you don't have 3 conflags ready and waste whatever damage was left), you'd recast Immolate and you'd have a normal duration Immolate rolling, and when you don't have a pandemic Immolate up you can't fully recharge your conflags in its duration with that amount of haste. Like Baconeggcheese said, once you hit that haste with the set bonus, you'd start with 2 conflags on the first Immo, then 3 conflag every Immo after that until Immolate's duration doesn't match the time taken to recharge 3 conflags.

If you wanted permanent 3 stacks Immolate, you'd need to recharge 3 conflag charges in 18 seconds (time from full pandemic duration to the latest time where you can get another full pandemic duration), so 6 seconds individual recharge, 9/6 = 50% haste, which is incredibly high if not unreachable.

Now that I think about it, random question to those on Beta since I don't have the gear to test this, does Conflagrate's cooldown dynamically update on Haste procs? Is it effected at all by Haste procs?

[wholol]

Are you sure it is implemented yet? I find it hard to believe that people wouldn't notice it if it existed.

I'm pretty sure it's there, they usually ship these kinds of things together and if those things are bad design they usually fix/change them later ( the affliction hidden trait comes to mind ).

@Nerfarien Well there's a blacksmith in dalaran that is interested in the fire mages weapon, felo'melorn, and asks if he can inspect it, if you let him he will grant you artifact power so I believe you may be on to something here.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Now that I think about it, random question to those on Beta since I don't have the gear to test this, does Conflagrate's cooldown dynamically update on Haste procs? Is it effected at all by Haste procs?

It's definitely affected by lust, I assume other haste procs as well though I haven't specifically tested that

[Xorn]

Not quite; 15.38% haste is the haste you'd need to recharge within Immolate's pandemic'd duration. Assuming you let it tick out to get the max out of it (since clipping early means you don't have 3 conflags ready and waste whatever damage was left), you'd recast Immolate and you'd have a normal duration Immolate rolling, and when you don't have a pandemic Immolate up you can't fully recharge your conflags in its duration with that amount of haste. Like Baconeggcheese said, once you hit that haste with the set bonus, you'd start with 2 conflags on the first Immo, then 3 conflag every Immo after that until Immolate's duration doesn't match the time taken to recharge 3 conflags.

If you wanted permanent 3 stacks Immolate, you'd need to recharge 3 conflag charges in 18 seconds (time from full pandemic duration to the latest time where you can get another full pandemic duration), so 6 seconds individual recharge, 9/6 = 50% haste, which is incredibly high if not unreachable.

Now that I think about it, random question to those on Beta since I don't have the gear to test this, does Conflagrate's cooldown dynamically update on Haste procs? Is it effected at all by Haste procs?

So why not just cast Immolate twice each time so that it's always pandemic duration? I'm 99.9999% sure it will be worth it.

- - - Updated - - -

@Xorn, it'd be more like immo > conflag x2 > things > immo clipping pandemic window > conflag x3 > continue until you run out of pandemic window and repeat cycle.

Eh, this is why I don't math. I would have thought for sure that having 100% uptime on the 4.096 x Immolate damage would be worth the double cast

I mean, think about it, what do you lose? 75% of an Incinerate? The difference between the initial damage of Immolate and Incinerate 50% sp, so you lose 37.5% sp every 24 seconds, but gain about 553% sp in Immolate dot damage (assuming the buff is multiplicitive, only 216% sp if it's additive). Pretty sure that's worth it.

OK, that's reeeeaaaaly rough math and I'm ignoring some artifact traits I know, but it's not enough to sway it when we're dealing with dot damage of that magnitude.

[bio347]

So why not just cast Immolate twice each time so that it's always pandemic duration? I'm 99.9999% sure it will be worth it.

Without doing any math, that actually seems reasonable to me. The DPCT of Immolate's initial hit is only the smallest of margins behind that of Incinerate.

[Baconeggcheese]

I mean, think about it, what do you lose? 75% of an Incinerate?

You don't lose anything by doing what I said.

[Xorn]

You don't lose anything by doing what I said.

You lose that last sack of RB every other Immolate. That's gonna add up faster than 1 Incinerate every 24 seconds.

- - - Updated - - -

And now that I'm thinking about it, the best timing would probably be to always have 2 shards as Immolate is winding down so you can line up a CB/Eradication right before each cycle, as you can definitely fit 2 Immos and 3 Conflags in that window. Though I guess I'm not sure if that'd be worth it over trying to chain Eradications to make sure each CB hits with it still up

[Baconeggcheese]

You lose that last sack of RB every other Immolate. That's gonna add up faster than 1 Incinerate every 24 seconds.

Conflags don't recharge simultaneously. As long as you've casted 1 and the CD is rolling you aren't losing anything until you let it cap.

So by casting 1x immolate 2x conflag, and then waiting until the pandemic window you lose *nothing*, because you're just allowing the time to pass until those 2 charges you spent come back at which point you dump all 3. You then use the pandemic window for the next so many cycles depending on haste where you continue to dump all 3 charges until you run out of pandemic window at which point you repeat the process. Again you lose nothing.

Doing it the way you mention would be shitty on the pull, predominately because you'd need to delay other spells you're trying to get on CD for it. After the pull I don't imagine it'd make much of a difference, there'd just not be a strong reason to do it that way when you have an option that doesn't lose you anything.

[Smog]

@Baconeggcheese ITT, the reason why adding charges to abilities was a terrible idea if they intended the game to be easy to grasp for most players.

edit: This actually isn't intended to be as snarky as it seems. It's just really humorous to me how much confusion still arises from abilities with charges.

[Grizelda]

I dunno, I kind of like charges.

Other wise it's more or less: cast this when it's off CD. Now you have some options.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Smog honestly the charges aren't at fault there, roaring blaze's mechanics are. Even if they did something as simple as make it so roaring blaze can only be applied 1 time it'd completely remove any confusion for people as the rest would become moot.

Generally I enjoy charges, it allows for much more thoughtful game play in the event that those charges aren't then tied to something else. Without charges it effectively becomes what grizelda said, which is *cast on cooldown* and your only wiggle room is assuming you're not going to be able to get another cast in after X time in the fight.

[Smog]

@Grizelda @Baconeggcheese Oh, I never said I didn't like charges, only that they add another level of complexity to a game that is already often mechanically and mathematically challenging for people to assess.

I like charges when they give a player a bit of leeway while playing, some wiggle room to forgive movement and not punish failing to immediately use a priority ability when it's off cd. When I don't like charge abilities are situations like these where managing the charges, their cooldowns, and using them in a specific manner dictates a spec's performance.

[Deleted]

@Xorn, it'd be more like immo > conflag x2 > things > immo clipping pandemic window > conflag x3 > continue until you run out of pandemic window and repeat cycle.

I'm still confused about how to do it

do I have to keep my conflag to do 2*conflag right after immo OR can I do immo > conflag > things > conflag ?

[Aldeen]

do I have to keep my conflag to do 2*conflag right after immo OR can I do immo > conflag > things > conflag ?

You're better off using your conflags immediately after applying Immolate since RB increases the remaining damage by 60% with each application of conflag.

[Deleted]

There seem to be 2 trains of thought on this roaring blaze vs. pandemic.
Which one is now better: Immo>Immo>3xConflag and then let it fall off?

Also, could someone tell me how the opener looks for you? I'm really struggling with getting all the CDs out in time...

[Deleted]

Conflags don't recharge simultaneously. As long as you've casted 1 and the CD is rolling you aren't losing anything until you let it cap.

So by casting 1x immolate 2x conflag, and then waiting until the pandemic window you lose *nothing*, because you're just allowing the time to pass until those 2 charges you spent come back at which point you dump all 3. You then use the pandemic window for the next so many cycles depending on haste where you continue to dump all 3 charges until you run out of pandemic window at which point you repeat the process. Again you lose nothing.

Doing it the way you mention would be shitty on the pull, predominately because you'd need to delay other spells you're trying to get on CD for it. After the pull I don't imagine it'd make much of a difference, there'd just not be a strong reason to do it that way when you have an option that doesn't lose you anything.

But you do lose out. You lose on compound interest. You should basically never use just two conflags after eachother if you have 2-set bonus, because the third one just adds so much. First conflag you gain 60% of initial immolate dot damage. Second conflag you gain 96% of initial immolate dot damage. Third conflag gives you 153.6% of initial immolate dot damage. If a 4th one was coming up at that point, and the immolate hadn't ticket yet, it would add 245.76% of initial immolate damage.

So not casting the third conflag makes you lose out on 1.536 * 390% SP, ignoring everything else. Adding in traits (Crit) and pandemic, and it becomes a good deal more.

I mean, I could be wrong, but in my eyes that third conflag is just worth as much as the previous two combined, so it doesn't make sense to me to not spend them in bulks of 3-4.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Smog I know, what I was saying was that charges are not where this complexity is coming from, roaring blaze is. Again if you change or remove roaring blazes mechanic then this entire conversation and the confusion around it goes away.

But you do lose out.

That 3rd conflag charge doesn't go anywhere, again the CD's do not recharge simultaneously. You're just shifting when that conflag happens to smooth out the rotation.

[Nalistar]

Which golden trait do we go for, after taking Lord of Flame?

[Baconeggcheese]

Which golden trait do we go for, after taking Lord of Flame?

Can't say for sure but its looking like dimension ripper purely because the path leading up to it is so strong.