Night elves don't have enough resources ... where is their future?

[ravenmoon]

My bad, subtlety is for hooved people.

You got that right, no tusks allowed. Shoo

[Mehrunes]

Leader of the Highmountain Tauren gets killed, the Drogbar betray them and the Bloodtotem Tribe joins the Legion. Tauren are doomed. Doooooooomed!

[ravenmoon]

Leader of the Highmountain Tauren gets killed, the Drogbar betray them and the Bloodtotem Tribe joins the Legion. Tauren are doomed. Doooooooomed!

looks like your avatar. Oh and there's your little corner, go to it now and you can scream doom to your hearts content if it'd make ya feel better. I'm sure everyone cares.

[Mehrunes]

looks like your avatar. Oh and there's your little corner, go to it now and you can scream doom to your hearts content if it'd make ya feel better. I'm sure everyone cares.

Not sure what the bit about the avatar is supposed to mean. And by the little corner you mean your account on fanfiction.net? No thanks, gonna pass.

[Sam the Wiser]

I honestly wish the people at Blizzard still had the same passion the OP had for their story. Yeah the OP is a bit nutty but the lore is complete dog shit. Reading his posts are way more interesting than the shit we get now.

[Rhlor]

So the recent World Quest invterviews reveal a few more things about Legion, and having the nose for night elf stuff, I noticed this



Really makes me wonder if or how this group is going to survive Legion, now the Forsaken and Worgen are taking over the towers to carry on fighting themselves as night elves keep dying and are completely overwhelmed. A little history: They look great with all their pre-sundering history in WC3: Demons invade, night elves take quite the beating, lose most of their lives and wisps, have to join the alliance to survive. We already saw them badly knocked about in Cataclysm - [completely routed in Azshara (thanks to 1 blood elf's ingenuity), steamrolled in Ashenvale by the orcs, bombed in stonetalon mountain by the orcs, barely habited Desolace broken by the cataclysm (this is the only zone they control outside Teldrassil), their only base in Desolace routed by a couple of blood elves- really exposed as not having no where near enough to defend their lands. Despite being the resident race of Kalimdor, the best they could produce in the Siege of Orgrimmar was a distraction for the Kokron...but in Legion they're really pressed in.

They don't have enough resources to lend a force to the alliance Broken Shore campaign - but you can say they were busy helping out their kin on the shore itself
We see them in every zone beaten back. Val'sharah has refugees pouring into SUramar because of the nightmare
Wardens are completely over-run and there is no back up from night elven forces for them.
Moonguard get decimated (not that they were part of the original force)
Nightborne ofc we get to kill all the ones in the nighthold raid - so much for re-infrocements
Azsuna - Court of Farondis are already ghosts anyway that can't leave that area.

All in all pretty bleak, but to top it off, we're having Forsaken and Worgen taking over the Night Elven warden watchtowers --why? because they don't have enough resources to man them - ofc, they've been decimated.

the night elves have been decimated.

What do you think is going to happen with this group then? They look weaker and weaker, losing more and more every time you meet them. Cenarius lost (and Ysera) too, Moonguard and Nighthold nightborne gone too (they were evil so I'm not going to miss them)

the problem of night elves is their leadership and mentality.

if the blood elves have the entire population and resources that have the night elves things would be very different. the night elves did not go for mass destruction of their kingdom in the last 15 years.
the night elves are tied to outdated traditions and customs, with leaders who do not want to innovate.
the blood elves go through really hard times, if a night elf tell about the problems of his people to a blood elf would laugh, the leaders of the blood elves looked like making their people more stronger used their meager resources to get better weapons and even increase their knowledge.
the blood elves are proactive have an organization dedicated to the search for new weapons, technology and know worldwide to help strengthen their people, and they use all those new resources that they themselves found to make stronger their army.
Now the reliquary are in Suramar looking ancient Highborne artifacts that may be useful to the blood elves.
the night elves have Highborne, but they do not encourage them to seek, for the good of the night elf society, the old powers. they are set aside in a corner.

[Leodok]

Moonglade is the Cenarion Circle headquarters - it's not night elf land or property, you know night elves didn't own "lands" in their 10k years of isolation, when they emerged in WC3, after the 3rd war, they went to Teldrassil. Moonglade, Hyjal, Winterspring have no night elf government and the latter hardly any. It is all Cenarion territory.

Cenarion territory full of night elves.
You can say the Eastern Plaguelands are Argent Crusade territories, they'll keep being full of humans.

It also no exaggeration that they are currently not a strong race. The Sundering broke them, they haven't recovered FULLY since. They recovered a little, building an alternate lifestyle to the arcane one that dominated their lives, but that one wasn't all that as WC3 showed and the strength they showed in there, is absent from wow.

Of course they haven't recovered fully. If they had, Alliance and Horde would be merely pet peeves to them.
But, as they had a HUGE territory, you can really take 90% of it and they'll be fine.

But they have already lost a significant amounts that is what you're in denial over. Yet the game and lore shows you quite clearly. The horde knows this, Garrosh knew this, ripe for the taking, can't hold anything on Kalimdor.

Read that again, mainly the last word. ANYMORE.
As I said: if you have a big territory, losing most of it doesn't doom you.
Humans have lost five of their seven kingdoms and one went AFK, yet the remaining one is doing just fine.

If it was "ripe for the taking", he wouldn't have needed to bring secret weapons and done all that strategy in Ashenvale.

Shows you that whenever night elves have a problem, someone always has to help them overcome it.

They are the poster boys for when blizzard want to show you how amazing a new alliance group or person is, look.. they were able to swoop in and save the night elves - ooo .. aaaah. Or how powerful an enemy race or person is - "oh look, big powerful strong orcs cwushed silly weak elves" - or did you not play BOTH sides of cataclysm or forgotten what you read in the stories? Hey Rhonin, hey Krasus, we can't save ourselves without your amazing imbaness.

Let's just ignore when the night elves save other people's butts... You know, by stopping the orc reinforcements in Gilneas, breaking Orgrimmar's gates, preventing the Legion from conquering the world... twice...

Really? night elves are seriously fucked atm, by the Legion, both the Broken Isles group and the Kalimdor group - the Kalimdor group was fucked earlier, and they show up at the end of the Val'sharah quests for Ysera, omg, they really aren't anything special/

The Kalimdor group is fine, as I said before...

Fine, everyone experiences big losses against the legion, but dammit, show a bit more backbone !! but then after how they've been rofltstomped by Orcs, Tauren and Blood elves, it's hardly surprising they aren't dispalying anything special against the legion.

They don't have arcane magic properly, they don't have druids (either corrupted by the nightmare or busy with world affair of stopping said nightmare), they don't have well much of anything all their groups are systematically been undersiege, they are ripe for toppling and extinction!

You mean, in the new expansion and stuff?
The way they show it, it kind of looks like worgen and Forsaken are the only ones with decent troops that are not busy doing stuff independently.
Whenever you see Alliance, it's worgens or Gilneans. Whenever you see Horde, it's Forsaken.
Does that mean every other race is doomed?

lol.. decent army? it has no decent army - or have you missed the that devastating WC3 war? where were their numbers? Treants, faerie dragons, dryads, chimeras - the majority of their units were not even humanoid and they lost a good chunk of that - stop imagining numbers they don't have. They were powerful enough to do their task during the vigil, but let's not pretend they were anything like they were pre-sundering, and lets not pretend that after such a costly victory in WC3 that they somehow magically have a decent army... if they do, they suck even worse than they do because they can't even strategise well to use their forces, and ofc, they get whipped badly having "decent" numbers.

Having decent numbers doesn't prevent you from losing if your enemy has better numbers, as the Horde, Legion, etc do/did.

What you don't seem to understand is that the night elves weren't a random race that lost many people.
They were a huge empire that lost many people in the War of the Ancients.
Then a big faction (Ally/Horde size) that lost many people in WC3.
Then a race that has lost some people in Cata (much like the whole world, you know).

And also, the game doesn't show how things are in the lore.
Do you think Goldshire actually has only 2 buildings?
Do you think Stormwind only has a few hundreds of inhabitants? And six or so ships in their harbor?
And there's a total of less than 20 farms in the Kingdom of Stormwind? Half of which are not even producing anymore?

[ravenmoon]

snip

whatever - have it your way, not that i particularly care anyway, Night elves a huge and powerful and well supplied, that's ofc why when they are in real trouble you see their amazingly large army marching on to defend their land - oh wait, you did not - i guess those many night elf forces just got stuck in the trees somewhere.

I've had my own share of fantasy and fanfic b/s anyway, i won't begrudge you having yours.

[Zulkhan]

Night elves a huge and powerful and well supplied, that's ofc why when they are in real trouble you see their amazingly large army marching on to defend their land - oh wait, you did not - i guess those many night elf forces just got stuck in the trees somewhere.

Do we even see any "amazingly large army" in game? I mean, the "armies" intended to assault the Broken Shore look like a bunch of 5-10 npcs jerking around.

[Koryn123]

whatever - have it your way, not that i particularly care anyway, Night elves a huge and powerful and well supplied, that's ofc why when they are in real trouble you see their amazingly large army marching on to defend their land - oh wait, you did not - i guess those many night elf forces just got stuck in the trees somewhere.

I've had my own share of fantasy and fanfic b/s anyway, i won't begrudge you having yours.

There are many reasons why Ashenvale wasn't fortified enough for the Night Elves to defend it properly from the Horde in Cataclysm.

1. Tyrande moved most of their population to Teldrassil at some point before Vanilla began, despite that tree not doing anything for the Night Elves like Nordrassil did because the dragons arbitrarily decided not to help the Night Elves again, and thus they had no obligation to care for it as they did the previous one.

2. The Sentinels were still living in the past, with their main base of operations, Feathermoon Stronghold, on an island off the coast of southwestern Kalimdor, in a position more suited for combatting a silithid invasion from the south than an attack from anyone farther north like the orcs in Durotar. They were much too far away, despite the threat from the south being largely subdued during Vanilla.

3. Most of their military were being used to help Malfurion and the Green Dragonflight defend Nordrassil from the Twilight's Hammer, which counted the full might of the Firelands, Deathwing, and many of his black/twilight drakes/dragons. We know for a fact that the Druids of the Claw, Druids of the Talon, and the group of Wardens based at Mt. Hyjal were tied up there, at least. Mt. Hyjal is arguably even more central to the Night Elves' territory than Ashenvale, so it's understandable that they'd want to secure it first.

4. You can't really fight against a stampede of gigantic magnataur that charge out of the trees at you out of nowhere with no time to prepare or brace yourself. Yet another example of Garrosh employing good tactics. He's really a great commander. Too bad Blizzard had to make everyone in WoW think killing your enemies during war with tactics that do less to risk your own troops is evil. But then, everyone should stop using bows and ranged magic attacks, because that makes it harder for physical fighters to kill you. Dishonorable. Everyone should stop using heavy metal armor, because that makes it harder for casters, who now aren't allowed to use ranged magic, and are now basically limp, noodle-armed weaklings, to kill you.

5. Tyrande didn't commit any serious support to the Silverwing Sentinels until the Wolfheart novel when Garrosh showed that he was serious about conquering Ashenvale for the Horde, but by that time, it was too late, as they'd already gained a lot of territory and weren't backing down any time soon. And that was also another instance where Malfurion proved that he was unwilling to lift a finger to save anything but Nordrassil and Tyrande, and joined the battle because she was hurt.


Just like in WC3 when he was willing to kill Illidan for directly murdering at least three villages' worth of night elven civilians, including any children living there, all of Maiev's Watchers in the Tomb of Sargeras, along with indirectly causing Tyrande's supposed death because she was in Lordaeron hunting him. But once Kael'thas spilled the beans that Tyrande wasn't killed by Scourge because she was in Lordaeron because of Illidan, suddenly the direct murders of three villages, Maiev's Watchers, and any of Malfurion and Tyrande's troops in Lordaeron were considered meaningless in his eyes. And he had the nerve to call Maiev "betrayer."

Just proves what an awful leader he is when he looks down on Leyara for wanting proper justice for her daughter's murder at the hands of the Horde, and plain old common sense of defending your subjects from invaders, saying "no, don't pursue vengeance, you're bad, Leyara, just let the Horde take everything."

Seems Leyara would have to kidnap Tyrande and hand her over to the Horde as a prisoner for Malfurion to suddenly change his mind that the Horde barging through the Night Elves' front door should maybe be stopped from doing that.

According to him, justice is bad, unless you're Malfurion, and it's actually just angry vengeance for indirectly causing the accidental death of one single person you personally care about, rather than actual justice for the actual personal murders of hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands.

If we're going by game scale, if you look at the map for Chapter 1: Rise of the Naga, from the Night Elves TFT Terror of the Tides campaign, you'll see that one village/city has 9 large ships in its bay. Another smaller one has 5. And the third has 4.

To me, these seem like they must be very large towns or small port cities, if they have so many large passenger ships docked with them, and thus would hold a sizable population, all of which would have been killed by Illidan and his naga.

But to Malfurion, they don't matter, because as long as it turned out Illidan didn't kill the one single person Malfurion cares about, the murders of all those other innocents don't matter.


Tyrande evidently thinks so too.

When they let Illidan get away, Maiev said "Fools! Have you no sense of justice?!" and followed after him.

Tyrande said "Wait, Maiev! Illidan has atoned for his crimes! He is no longer a threat to-"

Then Malfurion interrupts her, saying "It's no use, Tyrande. She has become vengeance itself, bound forever to the hunt. I only pray that in her zeal, she doesn't cause even more havoc than Illidan."


So, Tyrande and Malfurion care for nothing except the safety of each other, willing to spend countless lives of their troops to keep each other safe, and they don't value the lives of their people at all. And they are also so egocentric that they have no sympathy for Maiev whatsoever, despite being the sole reasons why so many of her Watchers were murdered.

In fact, by Malfurion's logic of "if they died because circumstances caused by you resulted in them being in that situation, then you should be executed" he and Tyrande should have been executed for letting Illidan go in Felwood, resulting in the deaths of the Watchers and Night Elf civilians.

Then they should have been executed again for letting him go again, resulting in the deaths of more Watchers in Outland.

Maiev lost so much in attempting to clean up Tyrande's mess, yet she and Malfurion can somehow sleep at night.

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Do we even see any "amazingly large army" in game? I mean, the "armies" intended to assault the Broken Shore look like a bunch of 5-10 npcs jerking around.

hopefully the cinematic will make it look a little more grand, like the 5.1 cinematic with lots of boats and zeppelins and troops running up from the water inland to fight.

Looked kinda weird seeing blood elf mages in robes doing that though. They don't strike me as passionate enough about the Horde to do that. I'd wait for a dingy to row me to shore. Or use my magic to teleport onto the beach, or something.

[Mehrunes]

I've had my own share of fantasy and fanfic b/s anyway, i won't begrudge you having yours.

That was surprising amount of self-awareness.

Do we even see any "amazingly large army" in game? I mean, the "armies" intended to assault the Broken Shore look like a bunch of 5-10 npcs jerking around.

Well, I think the one in Feralas is pretty big, at least as far as WoW goes. It's even Night Elven army! Though I don't recall it ever doing anything.

<snip>

You forgot the most important part. Night Elves are still one race. Strong or not. And they were attacked by the core of Horde's army, on the outskirts of their territory that is spitting distance away from Orgrimmar and is bordered by Horde land on two sides (well, three, depending on how you look at it), with outposts already in the zone in question. It would make for rather weird faction balance for the heart of the Horde to be countered only by one Alliance race.

[ravenmoon]

That was surprising amount of self-awareness.

The shoe should fit Mehrunes, try it.

So, not taking me out of context for a change aye Mehrune, ... I'm not wrong about night elves and nightborne at all in the context I explained, it's silly to write essays over such nonsense that doesn't matter, right or wrong. I really don't care anymore, arguing over it is retarded ... how relevant is it that nightborne are night elves in this context but not in that? not at all! there aren't going to be any left, and if they were, i very much doubt what I say on it here would matter to any of you, you'd go on having your own opinions which are also irrelevant here - and it's pointless going on about the matter.

It is also pointless to dream about this nonsense too.. making elaborate predictions or trying to guess where the story would go, only to suffer the ire of you people is certainly not worth it to me anymore, it would turn out to be what it turns out to be, it's hardly my invention, why get happy or sad, angry or annoyed? why bother. But just to prove a point.....

Night elves, night elves, night elves, are SHIIIIIIITE ! at least atm. Loadbearer's analysis does at least expose some plot holes and silliness in the narrative. and argue all you want the lot of you about imaginary numbers of this supposedly huge night elf army floating bout somewhere - they don't have shiite.. but like every race, when blizzard wants too, numbers will just pop out of nowhere, the difference in the night elves case, according to you, they do have the numbers, except they don't ever seem to pop up to do anything. And when they do, they get royally shafted -- maybe that's why the male's walk so funny.

So, either you are all delusional over a fantasy setting that quite plainly shows a different reality to what you're saying - i.e you're talking nonsense out of your arses or the thing you admire is really a pile of shiite - take your pick.

- - - Updated - - -

You forgot the most important part. Night Elves are still one race. Strong or not. And they were attacked by the core of Horde's army, on the outskirts of their territory that is spitting distance away from Orgrimmar and is bordered by Horde land on two sides (well, three, depending on how you look at it), with outposts already in the zone in question. It would make for rather weird faction balance for the heart of the Horde to be countered only by one Alliance race.

It would - but the way they're shown to respond? it's rubbish! they look rubbish and easily tossed aside, it doesn't take the brunt of the horde army to devastate their Azshara campaign - just takes a smart blood elf, then a goblin bomb in Stonetalon mountain, and man, one orc on the back of riding Kodo in Ashenvale - single shots an ambush of Elves down. Takes 2 blood elves to rout an entire base in Desolace. And ofc in wolfheart, Varian and the worgen need to rescue the night elves from the big scary Magnataur.

The race has been shown to be rubbish in wow. Are you now making excuses for them? They're CRAP ! I'm done making excuses for them, they don't get anything good in wow, they don't do anything amazing either, they just suck more and more and more.

and for those of you pointing out the Broken Shore night elves are the ones under siege, you are correct in that, but the Kalimdor night elves are there with them, and where are their amazing multi-army forces? Sitting back? gosh, you're either being idiotic to think so or blizzard are incompetent, because you mean to tell me THE Burning Legion, that has SHAFTED the night elves - broke their "super fantastic" (sarcasm) empire that causes them to look their nose down at every other race on Azeroth, murdered their kin, destroyed, the burning legion who they gave up their precious arcane magic to protect the world against (noble, but foolish), whom they sacrificed rebuilding their civilization to watch (vigil) for, not just for a few years, for 10,000 years, on who's return, they lose the majority of their people and their wisp spirits, lose their immortality, lose the shield benefits Nordrassil had given them in place of the arcane benefits they had lost the last invasion.. the legion that goes straight for them all the time.. you mean to tell me, the source of all their woes are back, and you feel they're holding some mysterious large force back from the broken isles and letting the night elves there take the brunt of it. That's the most moronic thing I've heard.

They've got no army dudes, they are so few of them, they are piss poor atm. Oh poor desperate under siege elves

And as for the nightborne portion, who should have been providing the reinforcements, after all that the Legion has done to their people, the reason for this predicament in the first place, that's caused the issue they face with becoming Withered, that wench Elisande thinks she is protecting her people, by signing over to THAT Legion? Join that kind of evil to save your own skin? let everyone else die because you've given into despair and it is better to survive being partner to THAT sort of evil? really! She and all her traitorous nightborne need to go! For such cowardice you forfeit your place to those better than you. She is stubbornly defiant in her choice till the last. Her great heroics in the first war undone by the cowardice and despair she returns too...a leader should know better, that leader should know better.

So what's new, night elves going bad, join the queue Elisande, Cordana Felsong says hi, Fandral Staghelm is waving, Xavius grinning, Queen Azshara is laughing. When night elves go bad the whole world quakes and is brought to the brink, but when they are good what benefit do they bring? Where is the high civilization, the restored cities and forests? Where is the shepherding and teaching or leading of the so called younger races? Instead you just hide in your forests... as noble as task of vigil was, it was utterly un-necessary wasn't it. At least to give up magic ... all they did was stop themselves from being the ones to summon the legion, staying in their forest, convinced they were the only ones who could possibly pose a threat - they failed, and they paid the price for that hubris. No more immortality for you - now time to just fade into the shadows and DIE !! ------- enjoyed my pickings?

it's all a pile of garbage.

[steelballfc]

The wardens are not a core part of the night elves, they were originally created just to keep Illidan jailed, so they are basically the guards of one giant prison, so most likely several hundred of them. The Night elves still control most of kalimdor, so even if they suffered heavily on the broken Isles they have vast fertile territory and they can recover.

The wardens are not the primary concern of their government, the druids and elunes temple on the islands are and they have got their hands full holding that, which they deem more important.

you mean the continent that have 4 Horde races fighting the NE solely and controlling more land every Exp ?!

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-----

just small note on side
we don't know the population of any race on Azeroth, so we won't know how much recourse they need.

[The Stormbringer]

Wardens =/= Night Elves. The Wardens are on an isolated island near the Maelstrom for crying out loud, of course their resources are limited, especially after having their best prison nearly torn apart in revolt and corruption.

[Mace]

The wardens are not the primary concern of their government, the druids and elunes temple on the islands are and they have got their hands full holding that, which they deem more important.

the druids are not part of the night elf government - never have been, they do their own thing - that's why the women rose up to be the warriors, leaders, hunters etc in the days of the vigil when the vast majority of the men were druids or functioning as. After the vigil ended in the 3rd war, Fandral did start playing a role in local matters, but most of them do not. Malfurion co-leads with Tyrande, but the druids do not co-govern with the Priests.. the priests do.

And I never once saw a night elven government on the isles. It seemed a bunch of individual communities. Druid, mage, nightborne, ghosts and wardens - there was no central government or governance - each group managed their own affairs and did their business pretty much independent of the other.

- - - Updated - - -

@ Raven.

dude, where is all this coming from? you're never rude or mocking to people - you never take those sort of baits.

[mysticx]

Let's just be honest here, the sole purpose of the Night elves (and Draenei, come to think of it) is to get slapped around to demonstrate how powerful the baddies are, so the obviously superior other races (Humans and Orcs, apparently some Worgen too in Legion) can swoop in and save the day, it's spectacularly crappy writing, but it's what we're getting since Cataclysm at least (Unless you count the close-to-complete absence of both races in Wrath, that is)

[steelballfc]

nighborne? nightborne.. you mean the ones whom Alex Afrisiabi says we are going to WIPE OUT ALL OF THEM .. or did you miss that at Gamescom?

let me repeat .. "WE ARE GOING TO KILL ALL OF THEM!"

there are not going to be nightborne left after Nighthold -- and i no longer give a flying rats arse if they're night elves, or pseudo night elves, or different race - what sort of a shitty person cowers to demons.. to DEMONS to save her skin and keep her comforts... either extreme cowardice or stupidity neither of which any of us needs.

WIPE THEM OUT ! -- ALL OF THEM. . you can join them too if you love them so much

somehow this look like Super-villain speech

[steelballfc]

Do we even see any "amazingly large army" in game? I mean, the "armies" intended to assault the Broken Shore look like a bunch of 5-10 npcs jerking around.

just imagine some 10k troops somewhere

[Mace]

@ravenmoon

every race goes through a tough time, but in wow without fail it always looks the bleakest before it gets better, look at the Highmountain comic and the Nightborne comic - they both look like a really low point for both these groups. Yet when the game quest begins you are going to see how they gather together and fight back.

The night elves have not seen a recovery or fightback because they've not ever been a major focus in wow till now. When blizzard gets to a race in wow they start building them up. They start them off from a very bad position and build them up. The night elves already had their bad position set up, and they've had a few more and the Legion should give them the worse time ever - it's the LEGION !! But that doesn't mean they'll crumble - you're not going to lose an entire race.

The signs are looking like the nightborne will fight through their ordeal with the corrupted state of nightfallen and the legion occupation of their city and they are working together with the other Broken Isle night elven groups - that's gotta be a sign of all those things I saw in the threads you posted.

Lets just say night elves were never that great, but they weren't that bad. They have potential like every race, and they actually reached their potential, something no one has done yet - and that's in their history, you can tell they're just really discouraged atm, @Rhlor - who is making some good points - they don't have the drive or motivation of the blood elves yet, a lot of their behaviour seems very well written in line with how they've been shown to respond to the sundering.

You would expect that sort of response from people who were truly sorry, you would hope they would get up sooner, but sometimes deep hurts need deep healing, something only the truths of someone like Illidan can provide, and the hope that Suramar turning out to have survived can bring. And whiles it's no guarantee that blizzard would write it like that, given the character of the night elves, if you wanted to finally fire them up and bring new drive and new motivation to actually thrive and not just live, this invasion, with all the new revelations from illidan, the nightborne, the courage of Thalyssra, a society of highborne night elves that actually used arcane magic well for 10k years and though their leader and some her advisors failed to show as you put it the moral intergrity of their station, others did, others did reject the evil and did do something about it at great cost and look like they'll pull it off. That's hopeful right?

Blizzard aren't going to win fans if they sit down and destroy all of this, and show their playing population hey guys, this is what happens when you stand up for what's right and fight evil, and make impossible sacrifices, you lose and get wiped out - that's a sure way to get people to switch off - if I know anything of people, the way the world is out there atm, you don't want that level of depressing in your life.

[Deleted]

If they where Horde blizz would at some point come out and say that those losses wheren't that severe at all.
But they are alliance so they will proceed to be beaten down and still survive.

Aside, elves fading away over time is just the trope you put on elves.