[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[UR1L]

Is there a good set of talents to maximize dps, even at the cost of survivability? I know you can just take on more mobs. But sometimes, high single target dps would be nice when leveling.

http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#Ea7K

Those are the talents I went with all the way. Blessed Hammer, Knight Templar and Seraphim being the most notable. Crusader's Judgement can be changed for Bastion of Light if you want more SotR.


As for Artifact talents, the first twelve I put like this: http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...BIAIAAAAAAAAAA

The Absorb from Bulwark of Order is quite nice since you proc GC all the time. Then I'd go up for Tyr's Enforcer for more deeps that scales very well. On the way I found that Painful Truths is REALLY nice when you mass pull shit. You take less damage, and deal a ton back. A really good trait all around imo.

[celinamuna]

As for Artifact talents, the first twelve I put like this: http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...BIAIAAAAAAAAAA

The Absorb from Bulwark of Order is quite nice since you proc GC all the time. Then I'd go up for Tyr's Enforcer for more deeps that scales very well. On the way I found that Painful Truths is REALLY nice when you mass pull shit. You take less damage, and deal a ton back. A really good trait all around imo.

Painful truths does pitiful damage outside of aoe.
Bulwark of order is simply worst golden trait we have.

[Burglah]

Painful truths does pitiful damage outside of aoe.
Bulwark of order is simply worst golden trait we have.

Could you recommend the optimal artifact path as of this post? I originally ran up to Tyr's via Faith's Armor and Stern Judgement before skipping Painful Truths and Consecration to hit Bulwark. I have to agree with testing and logs that Bulwark is indeed lackluster.

Would you recommend hitting Light of the Titans first when live hits? I am asking from the perspective of a mythic raider that likes to push damage.

[celinamuna]

Could you recommend the optimal artifact path as of this post? I originally ran up to Tyr's via Faith's Armor and Stern Judgement before skipping Painful Truths and Consecration to hit Bulwark. I have to agree with testing and logs that Bulwark is indeed lackluster.

Would you recommend hitting Light of the Titans first when live hits? I am asking from the perspective of a mythic raider that likes to push damage.

http://i.imgur.com/z4WhlPl.png

Red --> Green/Blue depending on if they buff bulwark or not.

[Unknownuser]

Not like what

[Gallahadd]

They kinda HAVE to buff bulwark... I think we can all agree it was too strong at 100%, but Blizz really need to understand that it's now a bit too weak at 20%.

[Project 501D13R]

http://i.imgur.com/z4WhlPl.png

Red --> Green/Blue depending on if they buff bulwark or not.

why would you recommend try's enforcer over light of the titans?
light of the titans gives us a solid boost to our self healing, and allows us to be proactive with light of the protector instead of reactive.

[Burglah]

why would you recommend try's enforcer over light of the titans?
light of the titans gives us a solid boost to our self healing, and allows us to be proactive with light of the protector instead of reactive.

I've done some lfr/normal/heroic testing as well as gotten relatively deep into mythic+ without light of the titans. I think that the aoe gained from Tyr's is more important, especially in early 5-mans, than the healing gained by LOTT. The AOE from Tyr's is nothing to scoff at and as always I find it more important to stay alive but always push damage instead of playing it safe. If you plan on pushing deep into m+, every second the trash is alive means you have a higher chance of dying and the HoT from LOTT will not matter.

[OrcsRLame]

Is Light of the Titans really that strong? I mean, I don't have it yet on beta, but the tooltip is really underwhelming, and Bulwark is a significant amount of my self healing even at 20%.

I agree with Tyr's before Light of the Titans, because it's just one extra point to get it and it's really nice for AoE.

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I mean, if my AS crits for ~600k, that's a 120k absorb from Bulwark. Right now for me beta character LOTT is a ~170k hot over 15 seconds. So single target it's kind of debatable between GC procs and crits which one is going to be better. Bulwark is absorb healing though which is inherently better than hot healing, because there's no risk of overhealing. On AoE though, Bulwark scales, (assuming it works how I think it does) while LOTT doesn't.

[Seani]

You would be very, very wrong.

I was watching a youtube video where a guy was testing the difference in mitigation between Holy Shield and Blessed Hammer versus Physical damage and some magical on the beta. The difference was approximately 9% with Holy shield being slightly stronger here. Against magical attacks you know that Blessed Hammer mitigates nothing whereas Holy Shield mitigates the same as physical. The use of Blessed Hammer comes in with not relying on consecrate for your aoe. Can also generate aggro when not tanking. Using common sense I would imagine most people will stay away from blessed hammer, and either go with Holy Shield or Consecrated Hammer. Consecrated Hammer, I would imagine allows you to hold aoe aggro without using Consecrate at all so you dont have to waste mobility or the gcd from consecrate.

[OrcsRLame]

I was watching a youtube video where a guy was testing the difference in mitigation between Holy Shield and Blessed Hammer versus Physical damage and some magical on the beta. The difference was approximately 9% with Holy shield being slightly stronger here. Against magical attacks you know that Blessed Hammer mitigates nothing whereas Holy Shield mitigates the same as physical. The use of Blessed Hammer comes in with not relying on consecrate for your aoe. Can also generate aggro when not tanking. Using common sense I would imagine most people will stay away from blessed hammer, and either go with Holy Shield or Consecrated Hammer. Consecrated Hammer, I would imagine allows you to hold aoe aggro without using Consecrate at all so you dont have to waste mobility or the gcd from consecrate.

Keep in mind, concerning physical mitigation, Holy Shield is RNG, whereas Blessed Hammer is guaranteed. In an absolute sense HS may be better for mitigation, but for smoothing BS is probably better.

[Fireblinkk]

anyone having an issue with prot pallies my blessed hammers are working and wont change when i change talents so confused

[Shieldi]

I was watching a youtube video

i want to see this video

[Lundarch]

anyone having an issue with prot pallies my blessed hammers are working and wont change when i change talents so confused

They swapped Tier 15 and Tier 30 in the talent tree for whatever reason, and upon doing this Blessed Hammer was flagged to not replace Hammer of the Righteous so you have both Blessed Hammer and HoTR in your spell book and can use both of them, I'm assuming this is a bug.

[Seani]

i want to see this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRwqKoOgVk

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Keep in mind, concerning physical mitigation, Holy Shield is RNG, whereas Blessed Hammer is guaranteed. In an absolute sense HS may be better for mitigation, but for smoothing BS is probably better.

If you get holy shield, every hit is pretty much going to be a block. 60% baseline block, 5% chance to miss, 3% dodge, whatever your parry is... and then the additional block you get from mastery. To be mitigation capped you need 102.4% cumulative block, miss, parry, dodge value, with this every hit will be a block, parry, miss or dodge.

[OrcsRLame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRwqKoOgVk

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If you get holy shield, every hit is pretty much going to be a block. 60% baseline block, 5% chance to miss, 3% dodge, whatever your parry is... and then the additional block you get from mastery. To be mitigation capped you need 102.4% cumulative block, miss, parry, dodge value, with this every hit will be a block, parry, miss or dodge.

That would be wonderful to be able to hit 102.4%, and if that happens we will spec into HS and we will never unspec it. Where do you get 60% baseline block from though? On beta right now, I'm at 24% block, 34% with HS. It looks like that's not counting mastery, as my mastery is 31%. So grand total, I have 89% coverage. That's 65% combined block chance, 5% miss, 16% parry and 3% dodge.

I suppose we're kind of close, but I don't think we'll get there this tier. Without being at 102.4% though, I consider block/avoidance to be useless. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have and if you offered me free dodge/block/parry I'd gladly take that, but I'm going to plan my survivability around not avoiding attacks unless I have an absolute guarantee that I will avoid any given attack.

[celinamuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRwqKoOgVk

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If you get holy shield, every hit is pretty much going to be a block. 60% baseline block, 5% chance to miss, 3% dodge, whatever your parry is... and then the additional block you get from mastery. To be mitigation capped you need 102.4% cumulative block, miss, parry, dodge value, with this every hit will be a block, parry, miss or dodge.

I'm impressed because factually i think this post is 100% wrong.

To expand on that : With about 6k mastery/crit you block 25.6% of attacks, and avoid about 18%.
Block and Parry/Miss/Dodge are also separate rolls, so that's also wrong.

As for youtube, testing 2 talents by letting 2 mobs hit you for 77 sec is probably some of the most lulzy way of testing talents that i've seen.

Anyway, here's physical damage comparison between BH and HS :
http://i.imgur.com/DooXXsH.png

[Sepelio]

Nah 60% baseline block ez.

[celinamuna]

why would you recommend try's enforcer over light of the titans?
light of the titans gives us a solid boost to our self healing, and allows us to be proactive with light of the protector instead of reactive.

You're not going to be using LotP proactively for a tiny hot.

And it's only marginally better than say Judgment of light.

[OrcsRLame]

You're not going to be using LotP proactively for a tiny hot.

And it's only marginally better than say Judgment of light.

Something I've been trying to wrap my head around, if LOTTs is so bad, then why is Bulwark considered to be our worst major trait? I mean, it's a pretty large portion of my overall healing on beta, especially on AoE. I get it might be kind of insignificant on only one target, but LOTTs seems far worse to me. So what gives?