German Police Raid 60 Homes For ‘Xenophobic’ Facebook Posts

[Deleted]

You were the one that was making wild claims about US somehow magically pressuring every historian in the world based on the words of some professor. If that is true, then surely some person somewhere would have written that down in some language, all of which can be google translated. Just show me your source. I'm interested to find out the mechanism by which the US could alter every history book in the world, including those of our enemies.

I am not suggesting, the "Men in Black" are putting people, who ask the wrong questions in gulags. Things happen more subtile today. A scientist, for example, might not get invited to speeches anymore, or his University might stop supporting his work, because it "might damage the reputation" (read: "endanger US-American relations"), as happened to Dr. Ganser in Zurich.

I don't consider this a "wild claim", and you don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to see, that governments strongly influence the media and historians (so, people who interpret what happens) to justify wars to the public under false asumptions (google "Nayira Testimony", or maybe stuff like this). In a sense, this is "hate speech" done by the government, as was Mein Kampf (well, unless you really read it, and realized how stupid it was).

I fear this is all becoming too off-topic (unless we want to discuss, whether or not this falls under "freedom of speech"). So I will leave it at that.

[Renyo]

Why do you fear ideas different from yours? Who gets to decide what is nice enough for you? In addition to it being a basic human right, free speech is also incredibly practical, because it's nearly impossible to pick and choose which speech is allowed without having bias.

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Well now, they aren't raiding our homes over Facebook posts now are they? Seriously when does the book burning start, Germany?

It is not about ideas or opinions, it is about hate speech. So things like "If I just had a flamethrower I could finally burn all the x", "We need to flush these brown apes down the toilet back to Africa" "We need to put all those apes into one boat and let it sink so this scum will die" (the last ones are paraphrased out of a song in the right-wing extremists scene). Like I said earlier in this thread I am on the fence in this discussion, I think that calls for violence should be punished. I am undecided on the cases where there is no direct or indirect call to violence.

[Tijuana]

Last time it was when the Nazi's came to power. People don't get arrested in the USA when they commit crimes and take part in illegal activities? Odd country you got there.

We don't get arrested for what we say on Facebook, no. rofl...

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It is not about ideas or opinions, it is about hate speech. So things like "If I just had a flamethrower I could finally burn all the x", "We need to flush these brown apes down the toilet back to Africa" "We need to put all those apes into one boat and let it sink so this scum will die" (the last ones are paraphrased out of a song in the right-wing extremists scene). Like I said earlier in this thread I am on the fence in this discussion, I think that calls for violence should be punished. I am undecided on the cases where there is no direct or indirect call to violence.

But by very definition, hate speech is an opinion. Limiting speech is a slippery slope. We find it shocking you can't post on Facebook freely, and you no doubt find things we Americans do shocking as well. But, I truly am fascinated by all these news stories about being jailed over Facebook and insulting kings and the like. It's fun to debate the merits of issues that just are not even a thing here back home though.

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I am not suggesting, the "Men in Black" are putting people, who ask the wrong questions in gulags. Things happen more subtile today. A scientist, for example, might not get invited to speeches anymore, or his University might stop supporting his work, because it "might damage the reputation" (read: "endanger US-American relations"), as happened to Dr. Ganser in Zurich.

I don't consider this a "wild claim", and you don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to see, that governments strongly influence the media and historians (so, people who interpret what happens) to justify wars to the public under false asumptions (google "Nayira Testimony", or maybe stuff like this). In a sense, this is "hate speech" done by the government, as was Mein Kampf (well, unless you really read it, and realized how stupid it was).

I fear this is all becoming too off-topic (unless we want to discuss, whether or not this falls under "freedom of speech"). So I will leave it at that.

Lawl, you walked the tone of that language super back. It's an interesting story but, saying crazy shit is bad for your career. Maybe the Americans just really disagree with the issue at hand, and feel your professor is way out there (they could be wrong too). If the argument is that some humans semi-bullied some other humans they disagreed strongly with, I guess that just feels like how the world works to me. /shrug

I'll bet global warming denier scientists don't get invited to many parties, either.

[Deleted]

We don't get arrested for what we say on Facebook, no. rofl...

https://www.google.com/search?q=amer...k%20post&rct=j

Sure, tell me, most of them were not actually charged in the end. Are the hate speakers here in Germany actually charged? With jail?

Also, it just comes to mind they used the word "raid". I can already picture Americans thinking of a SWAT-team running the door in and shooting the dog...

Lawl, you walked the tone of that language super back.

If only direct threats impress you, then I understand why you don't see any problem whatsoever. Believe what you will, I already said, I don't want to convince you.

In my book, true freedom is a bit more than just being allowed to do what you want. It means, being able to do it. That also means, getting the support to overcome unjustified inequality. And for an historian not being able to work on the truth (and Dr. Ganser uncovered some heavy stuff) because it might be bad for his career, is a serious infraction of freedom for me. Not only for the historian, but for the public.

Maybe for you it's just being able to buy a gun. /shrug

[Renyo]

We don't get arrested for what we say on Facebook, no. rofl...

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But by very definition, hate speech is an opinion. Limiting speech is a slippery slope. We find it shocking you can't post on Facebook freely, and you no doubt find things we Americans do shocking as well. But, I truly am fascinated by all these news stories about being jailed over Facebook and insulting kings and the like. It's fun to debate the merits of issues that just are not even a thing here back home though.

I agree that it is a slippery slope. No one is going to prosecute you if you post things like "I think we should deport all refugees". That changes if you say that you want to kill them. I think that having a limit for free speech is generally a good thing. Where that limit should be is hard to decide. I would probably expand the freedom of speech because I think that the democracy and society need to endure those comments. I would still prohibit direct calls for violence though.

[Kronik85]

We don't get arrested for what we say on Facebook, no. rofl...

If it constitutes libel you will be.

[Tijuana]

I agree that it is a slippery slope. No one is going to prosecute you if you post things like "I think we should deport all refugees". That changes if you say that you want to kill them. I think that having a limit for free speech is generally a good thing. Where that limit should be is hard to decide. I would probably expand the freedom of speech because I think that the democracy and society need to endure those comments. I would still prohibit direct calls for violence though.

I think anytime you cross a line of there being no tangible and specific victim in what you said, I think you are probably in a gross place with speech limits.

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If it constitutes libel you will be.

Xenophobic feels pretty far away from libel, slander, or immediate public safety. /shrug

[Pawstruck]

Good. I hope other countries follow suit and take serious action against hate speech.

Our Constitution was created to protect against tyrants like you.

Take a moment to imagine our founding fathers flipping you off.

[Adam Jensen]

It's Breitbart. Breitbart is known for twisting facts for their own agenda, I don't understand why people even visit that site, much less trust the crap they post.

Chances are the posts went further than just "hate speech."

[purebalance]

It is not about ideas or opinions, it is about hate speech. So things like "If I just had a flamethrower I could finally burn all the x", "We need to flush these brown apes down the toilet back to Africa" "We need to put all those apes into one boat and let it sink so this scum will die" (the last ones are paraphrased out of a song in the right-wing extremists scene). Like I said earlier in this thread I am on the fence in this discussion, I think that calls for violence should be punished. I am undecided on the cases where there is no direct or indirect call to violence.

Meanwhile the "protected" people can say what they want about people and not worry about being arrested for hate speech violations. Let's be frank, it's pretty much just white people that these laws target. For example that girl in the UK who wrote that anti Israel pro Palestine speech was claiming that people who said bad things about her on the internet were in violation of hate speech but really her actual speech was hate speech and nobody questioned that.

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It's Breitbart. Breitbart is known for twisting facts for their own agenda, I don't understand why people even visit that site, much less trust the crap they post.

Chances are the posts went further than just "hate speech."

It's no worse than Huffington Post and plenty of the left sites people post on here.

[Mister Cheese]

It's Breitbart. Breitbart is known for twisting facts for their own agenda, I don't understand why people even visit that site, much less trust the crap they post.

Chances are the posts went further than just "hate speech."

Read the german article. Here are some of the posts.



They were translated by someone else.

Uhm.. opinion? I think it's beautiful.



"These lowlifes deserve to be stoned and put up against the wall. First and foremost this pathetic bastard "senior mayor Jung", this "antisocial" (Voll-Assi is slang)"

"I say, we open the gas chambers again and put this brood/spawn into it!"

"Well actually, the jews were at fault for the Holocaust.. Especialy those in Warsaw Ghetto"

"Merkel needs to be stoned in public"

-so, this has nothing to do with them calling someone "baka-ecchi hentai"

These are not things I would ever think of saying. I am not comfortable with people saying things like this. I'm going to make that well and fucking clear. But unless they directly say "I'm going to go out and start killing migrants" or "I'm going to stone Merkel" they should not be thrown in jail. This is Germany, and their government is now locking people up for saying stuff in a private facebook group. They weren't organizing to go out and kill migrants.

OT note: I'm busy right now so I can't post as much. I apologize for that.

[Renyo]

Meanwhile the "protected" people can say what they want about people and not worry about being arrested for hate speech violations. Let's be frank, it's pretty much just white people that these laws target. For example that girl in the UK who wrote that anti Israel pro Palestine speech was claiming that people who said bad things about her on the internet were in violation of hate speech but really her actual speech was hate speech and nobody questioned that.

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It's no worse than Huffington Post and plenty of the left sites people post on here.

I do not know which people you mean by "protected". There are similar investigations concerning islamists and left-wing extremists right now. I even know someone who was part of a police raid against left-wing PKK supporters.

Edit:

Read the german article. Here are some of the posts.



They were translated by someone else.



These are not things I would ever think of saying. I am not comfortable with people saying things like this. I'm going to make that well and fucking clear. But unless they directly say "I'm going to go out and start killing migrants" or "I'm going to stone Merkel" they should not be thrown in jail. This is Germany, and their government is now locking people up for saying stuff in a private facebook group. They weren't organizing to go out and kill migrants.

OT note: I'm busy right now so I can't post as much. I apologize for that.

No one is in jail for now there are only investigations going on. The ones who posted those translated sentences on social media were fined but were not thrown into jail.

[Deleted]

We don't get arrested for what we say on Facebook, no. rofl...

http://www.thewire.com/national/2013...earches/67864/

kinda is the same thing though?

[Deleted]

These are not things I would ever think of saying. I am not comfortable with people saying things like this. I'm going to make that well and fucking clear. But unless they directly say "I'm going to go out and start killing migrants" or "I'm going to stone Merkel" they should not be thrown in jail. This is Germany, and their government is now locking people up for saying stuff in a private facebook group. They weren't organizing to go out and kill migrants.

OT note: I'm busy right now so I can't post as much. I apologize for that.

Don't exaggerate the penalty, it'll lead to misunderstandings and bullshit post, they are being fined for that. A hefty sum, yes. But going to prison (at least in Germany) is not something common. I doubt (not sure though) any of them (out of all the ones who got raided) will see a prison from the inside, the highest sentence they'll get might be a probation, if at all. The population/prisoner ratio is only ~16% of that of the US... don't expect to go to prison for every shit you do here.

I/My parents got fined for a similiar amount when bearshare and shit like that was a thing 10+ years ago. Fuck music and bad habits .

We have to keep in mind that they *demand* the deaths of a whole race/ethnic group. Not only is that morally condemnable, it's also something Germany can't and will not accept for historic reasons anymore. If they want it to be different, they are more than enough ways to make themselves visible without having to rely on threats or remarks like that. Hate(speech) is not helping anyone here or elsewhere. Germany obligated itself to protect the dignity and honor of every single human being in it's jurisdiction. It's above *everything* else in the German law system. The state is only allowed to interfere with it and other fundamental rights if it's to protect that of another innocent being/group.. so things like "final and fatal shots fired by the police to save lives" or these fines we see right here are possible and allowed.

[Tennis]

You realise weak ass trolls like you would be arrested and banned outright?

Nope. Nothing I've said could be considered hate speech. Nice there there fella.

[Theinquisition]

There's a fine line between wanting someone dead and actively trying to get people to start with it.
The law understands and respects that line, which is why only a handful of people are being fined.

Remember that important fact: Only 60 homes were 'raided' according to the title.
Over 60 comments like that are made every day, most of them are "acceptable" and fall within freedom of speech.

So yelling that Muslims need to be thrown into gas chambers breeds creativity?
The only thing that allowing this shit breeds is extremism.

But why are you guys okay with forums being allowed to ban people for non-illegal comments?

when was the last time the homes of 60 Islamic radicals were raided in one day?

[TITAN308]

If it constitutes libel you will be.

No you are not arrested for libel or slander in the USA.

It is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

This seems to be an on-going trend here recently where this comes as a surprise to our foreign posters. Believe it or not, we don't arrest people who say, "Obama raped a monkey and killed an orphan baby". We get it, when your Kings and Queens are insulted they can still use government force to detain you. Congrats.

[Kronik85]

No you are not arrested for libel or slander in the USA.

It is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

The Wiki page I read said people have been arrested for libel/slander. Certainly seems to be much more rare but it still happens.

Between 1992 and August 2004, 41 criminal defamation cases were brought to court in the United States, among which six defendants were convicted. From 1965 to 2004, 16 cases ended in final conviction, among which nine resulted in jail sentences (average sentence, 173 days). Other criminal cases resulted in fines (average fine, $1,700), probation (average of 547 days), community service (on average 120 hours), or writing a letter of apology.[17]

[lonely zergling]

when was the last time the homes of 60 Islamic radicals were raided in one day?

They raid radical islamists homes all the time.

[TITAN308]

The Wiki page I read said people have been arrested for libel/slander. Certainly seems to be much more rare but it still happens.

I'd have to see the details. I am extremely skeptical.