[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[nazrakin]

Why should you have a reason to cast it other than to deal damage by dumping maelstrom?
Any damage you do is worth doing, as a DPS, as long as it does not reduce your future damage, because doing damage is your job.

Lava Lash simply can't do more damage than any other spender, or it breaks your rotation by killing that button, as you would never press it.
While Lava Lash has no cooldown, it must always be your weakest ability that costs MP.
What alternate role are you envisaging for it and how would you achieve it without putting it in a place where it disables your other buttons?

Why should your ability that you can spam endlessly as long as you have maelstrom have a higher place in the priority list?
Can you really not see how that would hurt the spec?

I think the issue is that the trait, set bonus, and legendary were all created prior to our design shift. Back when we had 100 cap and had a constant overflow of malestrom, it would have seen more frequent use (if it were tuned properly) and that could have justified having so many supplementary rng effects tied into it. However, it doesnt really fit in the current design where we cap at 150 and the danger of overflow typically only occurs when you've got CDs stacked or you're having badluck with SB procs. I don't think that means they need to make LL stronger but I do think it means they probably need to look at the trait, set bonus, and legendary and decided whether it makes sense to have them dedicated to such an ability.

[Emophia]

No, not even close. They're like 12% of our single target damage with full artifact, for a cooldown with 15/120 = 12.5% uptime (i.e. they hit like trucks while they're active), and this is ignoring the effect of their maelstrom generation.

Good, gooooood.

It's about damn time.

[Ranmauri]

Two things:

First: Thanks wordup for that cheat sheet. That thing is awesome, and I legitimately feel like I know what I'm doing again. XD The rotation feels nice and smooth, now.

Second: In regards to Imnick and Darleth and the Lava Lash thing, I think the big concern as well is the fact that, as of right now, Crash Lightning is still a better MS dump than the button that has been designed to be an MS dump. If this were only the case in AoE that would be fine--that's what Crash Lightning is there for--but because it's also the case in single target, one starts to question why we have Lava Lash, and why so many artifact traits, legendaries, and set bonuses try so hard to make Lava Lash feel like part of the cool kids' club. I mean, maybe all those bonuses are being sunk into LL precisely because it needs so much to justify using it over CL as a dump, but I dunno. Did any of this make sense to anyone else, or was I just babbling?

[Huggykaze]

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Also, for those asking about pre-patch stuff, this doc will cover the major questions that keep coming up :

Pre-Patch Cheat Sheet

Is Windsong totally not worth it for pre-patch or somewhat close to Boulderfist?

Also, thanks a lot

[Imnick]

I think the issue is that the trait, set bonus, and legendary were all created prior to our design shift. Back when we had 100 cap and had a constant overflow of malestrom, it would have seen more frequent use (if it were tuned properly) and that could have justified having so many supplementary rng effects tied into it. However, it doesnt really fit in the current design where we cap at 150 and the danger of overflow typically only occurs when you've got CDs stacked or you're having badluck with SB procs. I don't think that means they need to make LL stronger but I do think it means they probably need to look at the trait, set bonus, and legendary and decided whether it makes sense to have them dedicated to such an ability.

He specifically said "Lava Lash should be higher on our priority list".
I think the ability could definitely be stronger and effects tied to it could be tuned better, but it can never rise in priority. If it does, that's an indicator that something is broken.

[Jotaux]

Also, for those asking about pre-patch stuff, this doc will cover the major questions that keep coming up :

Pre-Patch Cheat Sheet

I'm sad I have none of those top trinkets :/

[Darleth]

Second: In regards to Imnick and Darleth and the Lava Lash thing, I think the big concern as well is the fact that, as of right now, Crash Lightning is still a better MS dump than the button that has been designed to be an MS dump. If this were only the case in AoE that would be fine--that's what Crash Lightning is there for--but because it's also the case in single target, one starts to question why we have Lava Lash, and why so many artifact traits, legendaries, and set bonuses try so hard to make Lava Lash feel like part of the cool kids' club. I mean, maybe all those bonuses are being sunk into LL precisely because it needs so much to justify using it over CL as a dump, but I dunno. Did any of this make sense to anyone else, or was I just babbling?

Thats my point basically.. I could not really explain it that well, but you hit it quite perfectly. Im just too dumb when it comes to english and wording things correctly I guess. But yeah, you make sense.

Also, thanks Wordup. I actually hoped that Censer might be a bit better.
In terms of "BiS Gear", I guess Hammer of Wicked Infusion is pretty much BiS, as is the set-chest and Haughty Chain Legguards? Not that it matters for the few weeks, but I'd still appreciate the answer

[wordup]

Is Windsong totally not worth it for pre-patch or somewhat close to Boulderfist?

Also, thanks a lot

It's not exactly terrible, it's just a bit worse. If you really really really wanted to play with it given the ring still exists I can't imagine it being a crippling loss.

[Taeldorian]

Thanks for the pre patch guide Wordup, love the work you do here.

[Hedin]

Pre-Patch Cheat Sheet

I think rebuffing fb and ft at 30% should be lower, recasting it when they are gonna fall off is in right place, but updating should be just above Crash Lightning...
IMHO Windsong should be used when you have ft and fb on and paired with Doom Winds delaying it by 1-2 seconds for the buff interaction (45+20 Windsong and 60+6 Doom Winds)
And where do you see Crash Lightning in a cleave fight with 1,2,3 adds?

[Huggykaze]

It's not exactly terrible, it's just a bit worse. If you really really really wanted to play with it given the ring still exists I can't imagine it being a crippling loss.

Just wanna play around with it, seems like a nice addition in the place of Unleash Elements Gonna try current playstyle at some point. Thanks, as always!

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Thats my point basically.. I could not really explain it that well, but you hit it quite perfectly. Im just too dumb when it comes to english and wording things correctly I guess. But yeah, you make sense.

Also, thanks Wordup. I actually hoped that Censer might be a bit better.
In terms of "BiS Gear", I guess Hammer of Wicked Infusion is pretty much BiS, as is the set-chest and Haughty Chain Legguards? Not that it matters for the few weeks, but I'd still appreciate the answer

They should, but Neck and Ring would also change according to wordup's weights, I think.

[Darleth]

They should, but Neck and Ring would also change according to wordup's weights, I think.

Yup, already changed those to mastery, just to be prepared.
Welp, I guess its time to kill kazzak when the pre-patch hits and hopefully he drops the Prism... otherwise I probably have to stuck with Cap and Mirror for singletarget... -_-'

[Huggykaze]

Yup, already changed those to mastery, just to be prepared.
Welp, I guess its time to kill kazzak when the pre-patch hits and hopefully he drops the Prism... otherwise I probably have to stuck with Cap and Mirror for singletarget... -_-'

Bought Alchemy trinket and sticking with Cap. Can't be assed to change anymore, already behind by 7-10 item upgrades...

[Jotaux]

Yeah I'm planning on using cap and mirror. I still have to farm up the heirloom trinket for the expansion.

[wordup]

I think rebuffing fb and ft at 30% should be lower, recasting it when they are gonna fall off is in right place, but updating should be just above Crash Lightning...
IMHO Windsong should be used when you have ft and fb on and paired with Doom Winds delaying it by 1-2 seconds for the buff interaction (45+20 Windsong and 60+6 Doom Winds)
And where do you see Crash Lightning in a cleave fight with 1,2,3 adds?

These lists have been generated through sims and through play, whilst in some cases it might not feel right by and large if you're working off a list as your base to expand on, this is generally speaking the best way to manage it. Given that you're recasting them at 30% you lose absolutely nothing due to Pandemic, you should be rolling them as frequently as possible because having downtime from them falling as a Stormbringer streak occurs is a far more significant loss.

It's also pre-patch, meaning doom winds isn't involved with Windsong as we don't have it. Crash Lightning without the buff active is the Top priority on 2 targets and above, with the buff active it's underneath Stormstrike.

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Also, thanks Wordup. I actually hoped that Censer might be a bit better.
In terms of "BiS Gear", I guess Hammer of Wicked Infusion is pretty much BiS, as is the set-chest and Haughty Chain Legguards? Not that it matters for the few weeks, but I'd still appreciate the answer

I haven't done individual offpieces sims etc. since most time is spent with legion stuff now, this got done due to overwhelming amounts of questions about it on Discord so I fit it in quickly

I'd say that Tyrant legs are the go-to offpiece though given that it's Mastery heavy as is the chest, which both the tier legs and off piece chest lack.

[Lavindar]

Well, could always try a last effort with mythics to try and get the BoA trinket. I just am a bit sad that the class trinket is so low :|

[Darleth]

Bought Alchemy trinket and sticking with Cap. Can't be assed to change anymore, already behind by 7-10 item upgrades...

Well, I dont want to spend any gold now.. even with gold cap, nah... I'm just too cheap in that regard.

I haven't done individual offpieces sims etc. since most time is spent with legion stuff now, this got done due to overwhelming amounts of questions about it on Discord so I fit it in quickly

I'd say that Tyrant legs are the go-to offpiece though given that it's Mastery heavy as is the chest, which both the tier legs and off piece chest lack.

Good thing I still got almost everything besides the hammer... never dropped for me...
Will we see new weakauras from you? I always liked your weakauras setup and would love to keep using it

Well, could always try a last effort with mythics to try and get the BoA trinket. I just am a bit sad that the class trinket is so low :|

I do have that one actually... thanks for reminding me about it.

[wordup]

Well, I dont want to spend any gold now.. even with gold cap, nah... I'm just too cheap in that regard. @wordup: Will we see new weakauras from you? I always liked your weakauras setup and would love to keep using it

They're close to ready just need a few more tweaks with them for stability

[nazrakin]

He specifically said "Lava Lash should be higher on our priority list".
I think the ability could definitely be stronger and effects tied to it could be tuned better, but it can never rise in priority. If it does, that's an indicator that something is broken.

I saw him say something to that effect but its kinda nebulous since I don't know where hes wanting it to be exactly. Above CL+CS or even BF? I could totally see an argument for that. SS or Hailstorm? Absolutely not. My point was basically that we either need to use it with more frequency than we are or those bonuses need to be changed.

[Lucrece]

I don't use Hot Hand, and really, the talent is the worst on the tier by far so extra stuff on it doesn't change much in terms of optimization. The reason that I use Crash Lightning with Crashing Storm is, as you can see in the logs, the average DPC is a 5%~ lower than a Lava Lash, whilst it costs 33% less Maelstrom. Having more Maelstrom to use in a Boulderfist build means more casts in between, and you aren't strictly GCD locked so "most damage per cast" is not how you judge them at all.

The point of having the dumps so high on Maelstrom (generally speaking it's 60+(20 if Tempest)+[cost]) is so you have to waste no time generating with Stormbringer and still keep a reserve in case of chain procs. Obviously, the more comfortable you get with it the better you can read your resource situation and can be more aggressive with spenders which is arguably the most important part, the point of the rotation there (whcih was mostly a rough draft, didn't realise they would publish it so fast ) is to ease people into management of Maelstrom, since it's very hard to teach people on the spot to read their gains and expenditures.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, for those asking about pre-patch stuff, this doc will cover the major questions that keep coming up :

Pre-Patch Cheat Sheet

Those spreadhseets are so pretty, the frivolous guy in me with appreciation for aesthetics really approves!