Preach Gaming - Legion Melee Comparison - Rogue state

[ribthanwa]

Holy mother wall of text

[Celfydd]

The "leap" comes from reading several different forums and multiple peoples opinions about those classes, whom i agree with. For monks or DHs most of those posts weren't about having a rogue heal or tank spec, they were about the dps specs. windwalkers and vengeance dhs, both getting things rogues according to some of our playerbase, me included should have gotten years ago.

Fine, I understand that you're jealous of their abilities. That doesn't actually address the issue which is that you said that BECAUSE Blizzard don't understand rogues THEY INTRODUCED monks and demon hunters. Thereby implying that if they understood rogues then they would not have introduced monks and demon hunters. You haven't produced any evidence or justification of this lack of understanding. What exactly is it that they don't understand? Do you believe that they've introduced demon hunters and monks specifically in order to make your life as a rogue difficult?

[Redecle]

Fine, I understand that you're jealous of their abilities. That doesn't actually address the issue which is that you said that BECAUSE Blizzard don't understand rogues THEY INTRODUCED monks and demon hunters. Thereby implying that if they understood rogues then they would not have introduced monks and demon hunters. You haven't produced any evidence or justification of this lack of understanding. What exactly is it that they don't understand? Do you believe that they've introduced demon hunters and monks specifically in order to make your life as a rogue difficult?

To provide one example, the combo point system on monks, chi. Rogues have asked their combo points be on them just like chi is for monks instead of on the target for as long as i can remember. Instead of granting that to us, they did that on the monks first, they brought in a completely new class and put that in there and after that they basically gave it to rogues in the form it currently is, it's still not on us, but it's shared on all targets, which is essentially the same quality of life improvement. To me that doesn't say much about feedback taking skill or were not willing to comply to the endless time this was asked to be done, until they did it with monks and even paladins, and then decided ok here you go too rogues. One topic I remember had something to do with the monk animations, that rogues didn't get some animation they had been asking and it was brought in with monks. Backsheated weapons, rogues could sheat only couple very specific weapons on their back prior and monks sheat everything there pretty much. After reading what had been written before by just the community and then looking at the new monk it felt like the new class had been half designed by the rogue community wanting things for their class.

Why did we need an entire new class to be introduced to test how things could be? I don't mind monks being a class, they do their thing, we do ours. But don't base an entire class on things that have been suggested for another years prior.

And to be clear.
I didn't say they don't understand rogues.
I said they have no clue what to do with the class, or they didn't have ideas until Legion, last 3 expansions the very same question has been asked multiple times, why no major changes to rogues? And the response has been the same, "rogues are in a good place right now, no changes required". When many other classes have gotten complete overhauls several expansions in row. "In a good place".. According to who and what place? Sure they've done good in the damage meters and performance, but numbers on the board aren't everything.

Past 5 years i've seen so many requests to do something new for rogues, they've been coming since the vanilla nerf. Specs have been too similar, how is that in a good place, when the same complaint is repeated. That to me tells they had no ideas how to improve them, understanding is not that hard, most of us speak english.

How about the gameplay or the visuals? The visuals for example, prior MoP that very question was asked when is rogue gameplay made to be more visually appealing or "flashy". And the response was in MoP we got Death From Above and Marked for Death. That was literally the improvement and officially made answer. Glitched to the max DFA and MfD that added a small skull on the target. That's what the visual department came up with.

Now we're heading to Legion and changes are coming.. let's look at the changes. They pretty much stuffed almost everything iconic about the rogue class in WoW in to one spec Assassination now. Sub that last 2 expansion have been loved by many they tried to put together from what remained leftovers from Assass, at first that didn't work at all. They've slowly tried to fix that over the alpha and then they gave the community the much asked for "overhaul" with Combat to Outlaw. Which is now as generically named spec as it was before, is a complete mess of just whole bunch of different themes and ideas stuffed in to one fiddle, that feels like it's going to fall apart any second if you run out of duct tape. Is it a bird is it a plane.. who can tell. It's coming at us full speed! Run! We have rng inside the rng, we have combat abilities conveniently renamed to outlaw abilities and most of all we have Run Through that doesn't even fucking run through anything.

So how do the monks or dhs come in to the picture. The first example, which is not the only one. Just the first one on the top of my head, was a specific thing rogue community asked for quite a long time, and suddenly that's introduced to a bran new class and not the one who asked for it, until later on.
What does it tell you if you hear the same old sentence "..this is fine" and then see the improvements been done on something else.

To make rogue life difficult, well people who care about loot might have something to say about that, since there's now obviously more people after the same gear.
Personal loot somewhat takes care of that, in pugs and randoms. But guilds the gearing curve for agi leather is longer, cause there's more to cater for. Sure tier tokens are divided equally. Monks could have as easily been cloth wearers with robes, just an example.
Personally i don't care, well i would have cared if you asked me 4 years ago, but loot is not the game anymore for me.
Still I'm pretty sure there's people who care about loot.

DH coming in as the new class, with a very heavy antirogue and rogue counter arsenal in their skillbook. Hell yes that going to make the rogue life difficult in pvp.
That's a hard counter.
No other class so far has been able to see stealthed targets in a way DHs do, and what's the thing most valuable to all rogue spec in pvp, stealth.
But then again I can say does this move my opinion to be biased, no. I haven't pvp'd on the rogue since season 1, i could not care one bit how they perform in the bg's. But again i'm pretty sure some people might have something to say about that, when a new 'going to be popular and fill every bg class is introduced to the game'.