BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Shadowmelded]

Sounds like union ploys to create extra jobs to me.

How ironic Jeremy Corbyn opposes trident. Thousands of union paying members jobs lost if he had his way.

The guy is a fruitcase who puts himself in lose lose scenarios, and fires his opposition.

You think that will fly on the global stage? Britain will get invaded in 5 seconds with that clown in charge.

So you don't actually care about defence, just posturing. Good to know.

p.s. Corbyn can't fire his opposition (the Tories), his own party isn't supposed to be opposing him and they resigned on their own to force his resignation, they weren't fired. Then again I don't know why I'm expecting objectivity given the tenor of your posts.

[Kronik85]

Well, that was Merkel's big plan. She failed utterly... of course. Now we sit here in Germany with ~ 1 million refugees and the costs explode sky high. Hallelujah !

I've looked over the rights of refugees in Germany in the past and they can only be employed first via attaining permission from the government and secondly if there aren't any natives applying ahead of them. I've no idea what Merkel said word for word so a translated link would be appreciated but knowing what I know expecting refugees in Germany to be an immediate economic boom seems far fetched to say the least.

[Kronik85]

Sounds like union ploys to create extra jobs to me.

Immigrants taking jobs = Bad
Unions creating jobs = Bad

No cognitive dissonance there lol.

How ironic Jeremy Corbyn opposes trident. Thousands of union paying members jobs lost if he had his way.

Yes a man who's spent his entire political career campaigning for nuclear disarmament opposing a commitment to renewing our own nuclear arsenal is ironic..... Do you english?

The guy is a fruitcase who puts himself in lose lose scenarios, and fires his opposition.

Like Shadowmeld states he can't fire the opposition and his own Shadow Cabinet quit.

You think that will fly on the global stage? Britain will get invaded in 5 seconds with that clown in charge.

By whom? Considering we have mutual defence guaranteed under NATO and are not a part of the European mainland whilst being simultaneously surrounded by friendly countries. Can I have some of what you're smoking please.

[Kronik85]

Creating unnecessary public sector jobs IS bad.

They are called non-jobs.

Labour created 800 thousand of them in 12 years. EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND.

Can you say "austerity incoming" much?

Do you know why nearly 1 million public sector non jobs is bad for an economy? Do you know why they created all these non-jobs?

Id be happy to explain if you dont know.

Elucidate me please.

[Kronik85]

The money comes from the private sector. Its called taxes.

Civil servants don't pay tax!? This is informative indeed!

Bad for an economy because its a financial waste. Overspend = austerity needed.

Reason = 800 thousand extra votes at the GE.

Paid for votes. So fucking scandalous it should be made illegal.

Gordon Brown sold all our fucking gold to pay for his bloated public sector when funds ran out. He should be imprisoned.

I see, smashed it out of the park with another one of your quatrains. If I ever need something explained in 4 lines or less again I'll seek your counsel.

[Huehuecoyotl]

How ironic Jeremy Corbyn opposes trident. Thousands of union paying members jobs lost if he had his way.

You are correct, 30,000 jobs at risk from cancelling Trident. So cancel Trident, give those 30,000 people a million pounds each. Then we have around £170bn left to spend on hospitals and schools.

Sounds like a plan to me.

[Slant]

Tum tee tum....

We are currently talking with china, japan, eu, australia, norway, canada, usa and many more.


We are currently borrowing trade negotiators to work for us, the first to loan us some was Australia.

I love having inside knowledge xx


Ps - not a damn thing the EU can do to stop us going ahead and arranging our trade deals. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Yes, and they all told you they would deal with you... once you know your relationship with the EU. "Talking" means jack shit. But I'm glad that it comforts you that people are still "talking" to you. It's better than what they do with Russia, so... yay?

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Mass immigration is the reason for having adopted austerity in England?

????
????????????

They can look into the future, didn't you know?

[caervek]

I am a big supporter of maintaining a nuclear deterrent, the weapons have proven their value. However I have to question the value of replacing our subs, there are currently only three other countries with comparable subs: America, Russia and. America are the only one of the three actually working on a replacement, they are also our ally. Russia have no plans to replace theirs, because they only just got them, due to the USSR collapse they are 20 years behind us. France have no plans to replace theirs and again are an ally (also a neighbour, nuking neighbours is bad mkay).

So what's the point? We're worried about a tech gap with the USA? The USA could eat us for breakfast and not put on weight. If Russia ever decides to try and one up us we can simply initiate a replacement program then and beat them to it.

Do you english?

*English.

his own Shadow Cabinet quit.

Most of them quit, in response to him sacking one of the most important members. The truly ironic thing here is that Corbyn was so paranoid about a potential coup which wasn't even coming he managed to initiate it himself by doing something stupid lol.

[rogueMatthias]

I'm not really sure about nuclear weapons as a deterrent anymore.

I find it hard to believe we're not far enough along in biological weapons that we can't just clear out a city leaving all the building in tact. Screw trident, that's where we need some investment!

[Tinch]

No, the lack of houses drives House prices up. We don't build enough houses, mostly because whenever you try and build houses anywhere that isn't over developed the locals kick up a fuss.

We have a housing crisis because we don't build enough houses and the population continues to increase at a significant rate. Its not an either or, just a simple case of supply and demand.

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Tax. When you alluded to "increased revenue" we haven't done that in UK austerity, infact we cut tax for our lowest earners and cut VAT. We also haven't decreased the deficit with austerity, it's actually gone up, what's gone down is borrowing. If you want to know more about the deficit though then this page has it all.

I'm no big fan of Tory austerity but it has reduced the deficit. Debt continues to rise but that is obvious because the deficit was so high after 2008. They may have missed their deficit targets, but it is still falling.

[Tinch]

You seemed to be implying that Refugee's should somehow be expected to be an economic gain so......

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Trident deters national aggression. The world isn't in a state where it's worried about rampaging national aggression anymore, it's worried about terrorists to which nukes do not deter. The only value Trident has is upping our standing in world affairs and since Brexit well.....guess we need all the help we can get now we will eventually no longer be part of the worlds largest economy.

Russia and China? I'm torn on the Trident argument in all honesty, compelling arguments on both sides.

[Deleted]

To the people who hope Brexit get immigration down to thousands instead of hundreds of thousands, this will never happen:

We already have 10s of thousands of people coming here on student visas alone, to support our universities, many of which are world leading. Without that, UK student fees will increase even more and we will lose valuable future minds. We also have an ageing population, so we need an increasing number of doctors and other medical staff to look after them. Our homegrown doctors (who are unfortunately getting increasingly small in number) tend to move to places with a better quality of life, better pay, and more space. The UK does not have a good quality of life due to population density, pushing up the price of fairly mediocre housing, time taken to travel anywhere due to congestion, and lack of truly wild green spaces (go to a national park and be prepared to say "hi!" to a LOT of people)

The UK is already overcrowded, and due to demographics, regardless of whether we are in the EU or not, is going to get more overcrowded. Certain sectors of society have many more children, who will then also have more children, and so on, and we are a small island with limited space. We already lost the war on "too many people", and immigration is only a small part of that now. To think leaving the EU will change this is crazy.

What being in the EU meant was that you could have a bolt hole from this tiny overcrowded island. Increasingly, people can do their work from anywhere in the world, which means you dont need to partake in the insane UK property market that is a cash haven for Middle Eastern, Russian, and Asian billionaires, due to the British mentality over property. After leaving the EU, now even that possibility is gone for 95% of Brits, just so Gary et al who work at Tesco and have one holiday in spain every 3 years doesn't have to compete with Eastern Europeans over £0.50 extra an hour. You could have lived anywhere in a massive, massive landmass Gary.

Utterly insane and extraordinary.

[Deleted]

On the bright side, the global market opportunity just went bat shit insane for Britain that its almost too good to be true.

The sterling is getting stronger.

And the ftse250 is at an 11 month high.

The so called economist experts that predicted doom and gloom were so far wrong, they have huge egg all over their faces right now.

One might even surmise they bullshitted their predictions because they were being funded by EU handouts..........

No, the economy is making the best of a bad situation. You just confirmed things are worse than pre brexit by mentioning the FTSE (also showing a lack of understanding of stock markets). The reason the FTSE increased overall is due to the weakness of the pound. This is also why SoftBank "suddenly" decided to buy ARM...our last great technology company.

Unfortunately using a straw man, I am sure Gary will be ecstatic over leaving the EU. In fact he will no longer be frustrated he still can't buy any house in the UK, and can no longer move to somewhere in the EU where he easily could pre-brexit.

"The sterling is getting stronger."

It am sure are!

[Kronik85]

We have a housing crisis because we don't build enough houses and the population continues to increase at a significant rate. Its not an either or, just a simple case of supply and demand.

It's a 50/50 split, with or without immigration we need more houses.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.a...ulation-growth

I'm no big fan of Tory austerity but it has reduced the deficit. Debt continues to rise but that is obvious because the deficit was so high after 2008. They may have missed their deficit targets, but it is still falling.

No the deficit has gone up every year since 2008, what's fallen year on year is borrowing. You've got it backwards.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/33...national-debt/

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Correct.

And the left wingers keep wanting massive population rise without putting any plans in place to build new houses.

They just magically excpect the problem to correct itself.


Housing isnt the only issue, its ALL public services.

And they continue to spout rediculous, nonsensical answers of "plough more money into public services"


HOW AND WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM THOUGH.

They have no idea how and where it comes from, and that we dont have enough.

Ironically, they then complain at austerity measures.


There is so much herp derp with the left wing when it comes to balancing the treasury, its laughable.


Never trust a left wing government to balance the books. They are incapable.

So I guess we are just fucked then since you don't want to build houses or invest public services. How mental are you?

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Russia and China? I'm torn on the Trident argument in all honesty, compelling arguments on both sides.

China's expansion in the South China Sea and Russia invading Crimea weren't stopped by Nukes were they? Globalisation does more to check national interests these days than nukes.

[Tinch]

No the deficit has gone up every year since 2008, what's fallen year on year is borrowing. You've got it backwards.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/33...national-debt/

The link proves my point. Look at the third graph down, that is the deficit. I'm assuming you're talking about the national debt.

China's expansion in the South China Sea and Russia invading Crimea weren't stopped by Nukes were they? Globalisation does more to check national interests these days than nukes.

None of the countries affected have nuclear weapons, but I was mainly making the case that there is still a threat of national aggression. Ironically Ukraine gave up their nukes 20 years ago because their relationship with Russia was very different back then, which just proves the point that you do not know who the future threats could be.

[Shalcker]

None of the countries affected have nuclear weapons, but I was mainly making the case that there is still a threat of national aggression. Ironically Ukraine gave up their nukes 20 years ago because their relationship with Russia was very different back then, which just proves the point that you do not know who the future threats could be.

In Ukraine case it was "because their hand was forced by US and Russia working together".

Same thing happened with last Iran deal (we even withheld S-300 to them until deal was finalized).

When US and Russia do something together it works a lot more often then not.

Ukrainian crisis could also be prevented if either EU or US would work together with Russia.

Hell, current Syrian crisis could well be prevented by Russia and US working together there at start of revolution (rather then US insisting that Assad must go and Russia going "so he goes... and then what exactly is your plan?")...

[AeneasBK]

Correct.

And the left wingers keep wanting massive population rise without putting any plans in place to build new houses.

They just magically excpect the problem to correct itself.

I don't know, from what little I saw of PMQs over the last year "BUILD SOME MORE FUCKING HOUSES" has been a recurrent theme...

[Noradin]

I don't know, from what little I saw of PMQs over the last year "BUILD SOME MORE FUCKING HOUSES" has been a recurrent theme...

Quiet, we are (desperately) trying to find reasons to justify getting rid of immigrants, not reasons why more Poles are needed, so no mentioning building anything, because, you know, that is what Poles do in the UK (among other things).

[Deleted]

I don't know, from what little I saw of PMQs over the last year "BUILD SOME MORE FUCKING HOUSES" has been a recurrent theme...

Selling over priced shoeboxes to each other is our main industry.

[Mayhem]

http://qna.files.parliament.uk/ws-at...ory%20Note.pdf

4. This department will take on trade challenges that until the point of leaving the EU are
EU competences, and combine this with the UK’s existing export and investment work.
The department will also inherit responsibility for offering support to businesses to
export abroad.