Marks of Honor

[Saft]

earn

Gosh that's a strong word

[Deleted]

I like that you don't get any Marks for losing. Too many people didnt care about winning because they got Honor Points anyway. This system makes it so people have to participate and actually work together to get the reward. Yes, that may be frustrating, but with gear not costing that many Marks, players should have to earn it.

And I absolutely hate it. I always participate and try to win the battlegrounds but I can't influence 9-39 other people nor stop their questionable antics. All this does is make me HATE, actively HATE the other people in the battleground. I'm at the point where I see the stupidity in a lot of their actions such as three people hitting on a warrior who's healed by two healers rather than going for the healers and help me kill them and I want to inflict physical violence upon them.

Because now I'm not just going to lose, despite trying to get them to go for the healers (nobody is reading chat and there's no team speak) I'm actively get kicked in the groin and spat on for it. Then you roll around and tell me you think that's grand and I deserve it. It makes me as a person hate you as a person in the worst possible way. Why are you doing this? What do you gain from this, schadenfreude?

Gosh that's a strong word

Earn is a grand word here anyway. Someone could be completely terrible, contribute nothing and still gain their mark because 2-3 other people in their team pulled the entire team through. Meanwhile someone on the other team could've contributed more than their entire team combined and still gets shat on with this change. And according to Winter - I don't PvP - Blossom that's grand and a design that makes you HATE your team mates because of this, team mates who don't care about this and thus aren't affected by it and wont change is a good design.

[Aeriedk]

And I absolutely hate it. I always participate and try to win the battlegrounds but I can't influence 9-39 other people nor stop their questionable antics. All this does is make me HATE, actively HATE the other people in the battleground. I'm at the point where I see the stupidity in a lot of their actions such as three people hitting on a warrior who's healed by two healers rather than going for the healers and help me kill them and I want to inflict physical violence upon them.

Because now I'm not just going to lose, despite trying to get them to go for the healers (nobody is reading chat and there's no team speak) I'm actively get kicked in the groin and spat on for it. Then you roll around and tell me you think that's grand and I deserve it. It makes me as a person hate you as a person in the worst possible way. Why are you doing this? What do you gain from this, schadenfreude?


Earn is a grand word here anyway. Someone could be completely terrible, contribute nothing and still gain their mark because 2-3 other people in their team pulled the entire team through. Meanwhile someone on the other team could've contributed more than their entire team combined and still gets shat on with this change. And according to Winter - I don't PvP - Blossom that's grand and a design that makes you HATE your team mates because of this, team mates who don't care about this and thus aren't affected by it and wont change is a good design.

I like that you don't get any Marks for losing. Too many people didnt care about winning because they got Honor Points anyway. This system makes it so people have to participate and actually work together to get the reward. Yes, that may be frustrating, but with gear not costing that many Marks, players should have to earn it.

I don't think you guys are wrong, someone actually brought this up on my WoW forum. The issue is that I always go into a battleground with the intention of winning and I usually end up in the top 3 for damage, caps, attacks, defense, etc., but you can't control your team. I even tried to get premade groups and the interest simply didn't exist. So what am I left to do? Just hope I get a good group and hate PvP otherwise because I get nothing for my efforts, not even a chance at a Mark via RNG?

Thats besides the fact that if I'm a casually farming for a transmog weapon I shouldn't have to put as much effort in as trying to get a current season PvP weapon, but at the current time you do. Maybe thats one of Blizzards ideas to bring some more "content" to the game, force people to farm just as hard for transmog gear, but for me thats not fun.

There needs to be something, because clearly the system doesn't exactly work best for everyone, it may work wonders at 110, but what about for everyone else, and even at 110 what about for the casual PvPer? And one last thought? What happens when you earn your mark, but your team doesn't? That happens more often than not and its horrible. Its like when you did a group project in school and you ended up being the that did all the work and the others got a good grade because of you, or you didn't get a good grade because your group mates were useless. I always hated group work.

[ItachiZaku]

My earlier comment about winning and not getting a mark was valid, but he was a level 10 and they don't get "random" option, but after hitting 15 and getting the random queue with the reward markings, I got marks for each lowbie victory. What concerns me, is that the marks are showing as account bound, I don't want to be able to farm marks on a twinked out level 19 disc (still op as fuck) and filter them up to a shit 110 (like half my toons, i'm shit at pvp on).

[Deleted]

Playing PvP I find myself more agitated and frustrated then ever. If your team is bad, you can't do anything to turn the game around on your own. You will get slammed for it just the same and get spat on by Blizzard for good measure. Then people like Blossom come around and pretend it's a good thing. It makes a bad match even worse, a whole lot worse and for no other reason than to let some people get off on the misery of others.

[Deleted]

As if people want to get one of these from LOSING. I just can't.

[Niggums]

Playing PvP I find myself more agitated and frustrated then ever. If your team is bad, you can't do anything to turn the game around on your own. You will get slammed for it just the same and get spat on by Blizzard for good measure. Then people like Blossom come around and pretend it's a good thing. It makes a bad match even worse, a whole lot worse and for no other reason than to let some people get off on the misery of others.

While I agree somewhat, part of this stems from the changes blizz has made to make PVP less and less gear dependent. You felt like you could impact pvp in the past because of massive gear advantages (and larger kits leading to higher class skill ceilings to seperate the good and bad players of each class...but thats a story for another day).

[Puzzony]

Won a bg on my lvl32 hunter, gave my a box with a mark of honor and a blue pants inside, and the XP of course.

[Wow]

I wouldn't disagree with this. They could alter the prices of gear as well. Right now the value of a Mark of Honor is about the equivalent of 700 old honor which is far more than I ever remember getting. Could get two transmog pieces for it. Just everything is a little out of whack right now.

You have to think of it as it will be not as what it will be for month. At 110 you can't get any gear for marks they are just for mog and that's a pretty terrible grind even if you are winning a lot. And if you're losing a lot it's an impossible grind.

[Mafic]

This is done on purpose because they have shifted the reward system to PVE. They want PVP to be a side game, but the gamble is that they are going to lose a large pool of players. Loss of large pool of players will lead to massive queue times ala WotLK where PVE rewards outstripped PVP rewards.

Blizz burned their hand on the stove the first time around and want to repeat this experiment. This experiment is only being done until the outcry is loud enough.

[Deleted]

You didnt think Blizzard could fuck this up, did you?

But oh boy they came through, and fucked it up worse than you thought imagineable.

All Marks of Honor do is promote premades, which is great for those who have friends still playing, a horror show for returning players and new players.


They (Blizzard) are incapable of doing anything right with PVP, its just one disaster after another. Maybe by expansion 20, "World of Warcraft: Revenge of Northrend" they will design a reward system that works well.

They really did try with this, i imagine a meeting with 10 designers and they sat there for 4 hours and talked about PVP rewards, this is the best they could do, they even went longer than 4 hours, some poor guy came home at like 03 in the morning and woke up his wife, but he gave her a thumbs up as he waltzed to bed "Honey, we did it we solved PVP rewards!"

[Yoshimiko]

As if people want to get one of these from LOSING. I just can't.

You just can't what? Yeah, people want something for losing. In the past we got honor, right now we get 7 gold. 7 gold. I get more than 7 gold in 30 seconds of farming. I can't get honor, I don't get marks in ~60-70% of my game because I'm horde and all I want to do is replace my 655 weapons with 710 but I gotta win 10 wins per character -_- all because I'm not allowed to use 2H on DK or Monk. Yay. -_-

[Deleted]

You just can't what? Yeah, people want something for losing. In the past we got honor, right now we get 7 gold. 7 gold. I get more than 7 gold in 30 seconds of farming. I can't get honor, I don't get marks in ~60-70% of my game because I'm horde and all I want to do is replace my 655 weapons with 710 but I gotta win 10 wins per character -_- all because I'm not allowed to use 2H on DK or Monk. Yay. -_-

I really just can't. This is on the same level as asking for gear to be mailed to you...

Put in the effort and you'll get your weapons. Horde keep losing? Join a pre-made or use Mercenary mode. Frost DK can't use a 2-hander? Switch to Unholy until Legion. There's plenty of solutions to a temporary problem (since marks have no value outside of transmog at max level in Legion).

[Yoshimiko]

I really just can't.

just can't what? You're missing a few words there...

Mercenary mode isn't usable unless there are more horde in queue than alliance. Good luck getting into a horde pre-made that isn't worse than a random. Seriously, I've had worse luck in premades than in random bgs. I'd play with my friends, but anyone who cares at all about PVP is Alliance. Fun.

That's an option for DK but that's NOT an option for WW, the primary reason I was doing this - since frost is complete garbage anyways atm.

This is on the same level as asking for gear to be mailed to you...

We're not asking for 100% chance of a mark win or lose. A small, 10-20% chance for the top person on the losing team to get a mark would be plenty. Just *something*. I don't want to have to hop on my twink/boosted alliance to farm upgrades for my 100s. It's a pretty broken system - especially with hordes horrendous win rates at level cap.

[Deleted]

PvP in BGs, RBGs and Arenas have always been about working together to win. You can't solo it and expect results, but that's what people were doing because they were getting rewarded for it. That's one of the main reasons why we have so many Botters in BGs farming HPs. People will eventually adjust to the new system, and I'm sure more people will start to participate once they realize they have to or they face getting nothing.

No, no and no. People wont adjust to this whatsoever, because the truth is the vast mayority DOESN'T CARE. They don't care, never will. All you achieve by this is to punish and demotivate those who do and turn the whole thing even more toxic. You can't equate random BGs to arena and rbg where one joins with a premade. It doesn't work like that.

Even in ego shooters and various other games, often times with in build and always available voice chat and easy communications this behaviour DOES NOT CHANGE. It's because they're not there for the objectives much less to win or whatever reward they might or might not get. They're just there to kill stuff and do whatever they want at any given time.

This kind of thing has been tried in various games over time and it never succeeded, because these people wont change their behaviour or adjust because they inherently do not care and never will. I doubt your claims to "PvP pretty regularly" because of what you're writing here alone. You're just giddy about taking a giant dump on those who care, who did all along and actually worked towards victory and tried to make their team win.

You know, the people who already ended up with less honor, less honorable kills and so on and on. Because they weren't in the zerg but defending a base. Supporting the flag carrier as heal or being the flag carrier themselves. You are FURTHER PUNISHING THOSE PLAYERS. Not the usual zerg guy. This ends up hurting the wrong people, it punishes playing for objectives and putting in effort as you not only get shat on in terms of rewards now but still get all the down sides of playing for objectives.

While I agree somewhat, part of this stems from the changes blizz has made to make PVP less and less gear dependent. You felt like you could impact pvp in the past because of massive gear advantages (and larger kits leading to higher class skill ceilings to seperate the good and bad players of each class...but thats a story for another day).

I cannot physically stop people from being bad. It's impossible for me to do so. I can try and nudge our team in the direction of victory and try to get others to participate but that's about the end of what I am capable of doing. Unless you give me an ability to reach through my screen and slap that guy who's afk at the entrance or somewhere pointlessly zerging on the road I can't do anything about his behaviour.

So all it ends up doing, is punishing me for actually playing for objectives. Because in the end it doesn't matter. I could've held a base against 20 attacks, I could've killed a dozen orb carriers in Katmogu, single handedly brought every single last lorry through on a track in Silvershard Mines and STILL LOSE AND GET NAUGHT because the rest of the team didn't care about winning.

People are being punished for something completely out of their control. People who play for objectives do end up punished already because they lose out on honor kills, honor and other stuff aswell as having less fun in games in general. Now they're further punished. Which means I might aswell go "Fuck it!" and join the zerg not caring about victory anymore. To at least have more fun and get the other upsides.

[Deleted]

Doing a BG every week or two doesn't make you a PvP player, much less a player with focus upon PvP. The comparison to PvE alone outs you on that. The comparison is terrible, absolutely so. Because you do not have players on both sides of the equation. Because PuG content is laughable easy to ensure people are always getting their rewards i.e dungeons/lfr and so on. Sure they need to down the boss to get it, but the boss doesn't actually want to win, the boss doesn't mind losing and the boss will in almost 100% of cases lose in the end.

Other content is ORGANIZED, which holds true for PvP aswell. Nobody is saying people should get rating in Arena and RBG for losing much less plentiful rewards. But around there you have an organized team with proper communications which has come together with the intention of winning. You can not, under any circumstances compare that random battlegrounds. It doesn't work.

[Copenhagen23]

Feels bad to get nothing if you lose. Even an epic strongbox only gave me a green pvp piece. I thought there was a chance to get a Mark of Honor the better the losing team did. You got honor before even though you lost, and now you get nothing. This needs to change.

[Deleted]

Since you need approx. 3000-4000 Marks of Honor, this currency should be the currency to throw around. It's used for transmog purpose only and there is no reason to keep them rare. If you lose a BG, they shouldnt give you items, because you lost. They could give your gold or some random currency. 3 Marks for a Win and 1 for a lose. 2 Marks for a close lose.

[Raiju]

Losing should NEVER be rewarded in pvp because it promotes the notion "lose fast get box move to the next one".

losing should have some reward because of faction imbalance

[Deleted]

Losing should NEVER be rewarded in pvp because it promotes the notion "lose fast get box move to the next one".

Except that doesn't happen in most cases. Most people DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE REWARD EITHER WAY, thus their behaviour will not be affected in any kind of way. They will still go out bash faces in or more likely get theirs bashed in and have fun. Meanwhile people who care about victory, who try to win but get dragged down by a team of, well given your armoy, basically you's will end up frustrated and annoyed.

It's punishing the wrong people for no other reason but to indulge some abysmal players "haha, get shat on" attitude. In the end it means playing for victory would only end up frustrating, as you'll end with with LESS HONOR AND HONORABLE KILLS aswell as far less action than those people who ignored any and all objectives and went to smash stuff, while also being punished because the rest of your team were Motormen.