Guilty verdict in "he said she said" case changes the landscape of Criminal Justice

[Tennis]

Ontario Court Justice Marvin Zuker changed the landscape of sexual assault and the criminal justice system on Thursday.

He found York University student Mustafa Ururyar guilty of sexually assaulting fellow PhD student Mandi Gray.

“Of this there is no doubt,” he said. “Ms Gray was raped by the accused.”

But it was his verdict, 179 pages delivered in a deliberately patient cadence over more than two hours, that was revolutionary.

“The myths of rape should be dispelled once and for all,” he announced near the long-awaited end of his verdict. “It doesn’t matter if the victim was drinking, out at night alone, sexually exploited, on a date with the perpetrator, or how the victim was dressed. No one asks to be raped.”

He underlined that last line, literally.

Does the woman rush to the police right away or wait days, weeks, months? It doesn’t matter, Zuker said. There are plenty of reasons why victims wait or don’t report at all. Does she remember every gruesome detail in “a piecemeal fashion, rather than in a neat chronology?” It is understandable, people only remember the gist of what happens and trauma causes memory fragments, he said. Does she lie stiff with fear, and not claw at her attacker or scramble desperately for the door during her rape? And if she doesn’t, should she be disbelieved later?

At about the 80-minute mark, when it finally became clear which way things were going, many of Gray’s supporters in the gallery gasped, grabbed one another’s hands and cried. They had expected the opposite because that’s the way it usually goes, particularly in typical sex assault cases like Ururyar’s that pivot entirely on consent.

Ururyar acknowledged he and Gray had sex. The two had been hooking up for two weeks, since they’d met at a union meeting at York, where he was studying political science and she sociology. The night of the assault, she’d texted him from a bar to “come drink and then we can have hot sex.” He came, they shut the place down and then walked back to his place.

Her testimony, which Zuker ruled as the truth, was that he berated her on the way home, calling her “an embarrassment” and “a slut” until her self-esteem crumbled. Once he got there, he jammed his penis into her mouth and then raped her. She lay frozen in fear. The version Ururyar told from the witness stand was they’d gone home happily, he’d broken up with her and then they’d had consolation sex.

Like in most cases, there were no witnesses to the rape. There were no obvious physical injuries detected by a sexual assault kit Gray had done the next day. There were just the two people’s words.

“This is ludicrous and contrary to the way in which victims behave when attacked,” he said.

Ururyar looked stunned by the verdict. During the lunch break, he wandered around the second floor of courthouse towing a blue suitcase (he’s moved out of Toronto and is flying in for court dates), with a spaced-out glare in his eyes. Clean-cut and baby-faced, he looks like a nice guy, not a rapist, another myth Zuker skewered Thursday.

“We cannot perpetuate the belief that niceness cannot coexist with violence, evil or deviance and consequently the nice guy must not be guilty of the alleged offence,” Zuker said in his verdict.

Nice guys rape, too.

Crown Attorney Jennifer Lofft pushed for Ururyar’s bail to be revoked because he is a convicted rapist. Zuker will decide that Monday, but sentencing won’t be until Oct. 24. Lofft is asking for a medium to maximum penalty of 12-18 months in jail, and Bristow is vying for no jail time.

The wheels of justice, even when they’re on the right track, grind excruciatingly slowly.

Out on the court steps, Gray declared the case still not over for her. She has filed a human rights complaint against York, for lacking clear policies and protocols for students sexually assaulted by classmates or staff, and that is dragging on with no end in sight.

“In a lot of ways my life continues in shambles,” she said.

She has changed her PhD subject from women in prison to sexual assault.

That seems fitting.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...gray-case.html


Do you agree with this ruling from this high profile rape case?

What does it mean for such cases moving forward?

How should "he said she said" cases be handled?

[TheDestinatus]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...gray-case.html


Do you agree with this ruling from this high profile rape case?

What does it mean for such cases moving forward?

How should "he said she said" cases be handled?

Probably nothing being that its a Canadian issue and for all its natural beauty its apparently filled with idiots. Nothing makes me laugh more than seeing all the drug addicts on the streets of Vancouver and hearing Canadians call themselves the best social system in the world.


Infracted. Nation bashing is not tolerated.

[lockedout]

Oh Canadia, you so silly.

[Tennis]

Probably nothing being that its a Canadian issue and for all its natural beauty its apparently filled with idiots. Nothing makes me laugh more than seeing all the drug addicts on the streets of Vancouver and hearing Canadians call themselves the best social system in the world.

Excuse me? That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say considering Canada ranks so highly in just about every worthwhile metric.

[KrazyK923]

What a shock, new progressive Canada begins throwing out the rule of law based on literally nothing but the claims of the person who initiated the lawsuit.

"Who cares if the woman can't even put an accurate timeline together verified by anybody else. Facts? Who needs facts? Listen and believe!"

Going to be interesting watching SJW Canada slowly destroy itself from within.

Then again it's just another Tennistroll thread so who knows. Carry on.

[TheDestinatus]

Excuse me? That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say considering Canada ranks so highly in just about every worthwhile metric.

Not really, plenty of countries rank high on every worthwhile metric and they still have idiots - Canada just seems to pride themselves on it. That may not be entirely truthful, I don't ever hear anything about racial self loathing coming from Quebec.

[Tennis]

Not really, plenty of countries rank high on every worthwhile metric and they still have idiots - Canada just seems to pride themselves on it. That may not be entirely truthful, I don't ever hear anything about racial self loathing coming from Quebec.

So basically you don't have an argument and decide to nation bash and call all Canadians idiots? Pretty sure that is against the rules.

[Post]

What could possibly be wrong with convicting someone based on nothing? I wish I lived there.

[Seranthor]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...gray-case.html


Do you agree with this ruling from this high profile rape case?

What does it mean for such cases moving forward?

How should "he said she said" cases be handled?

My opinion is that I dont have enough information to make an informed judgement on the case. I do find it troubling that sans actual physical evidence that a judge would rule this way, however, judges are humans and all humans have the capacity to make mistakes. Did the judge make a mistake here? I dont have enough information to make that call.

[primalmatter]

Plus side to this I guess is by shaming men we slowly bring back the moral character of waiting till marriage for sex.

Who knows long game maybe this will be a real blow to degeneracy.

[TheDestinatus]

So basically you don't have an argument and decide to nation bash and call all Canadians idiots? Pretty sure that is against the rules.

Probably, but in this case you guys are the vanguard for unwarranted self imposed guilt so I'm okay with it.

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Plus side to this I guess is by shaming men we slowly bring back the moral character of waiting till marriage for sex.

Who knows long game maybe this will be a real blow to degeneracy.

So basically being progressive will actually be the new phase of religion.

[I Push Buttons]

Sounds absurd, judge should be disbarred.

Judges obviously will have political leanings, biases, etc... They are human, they can't purge all human connection and emotion. But this judge convicted someone of a crime with no evidence seemingly just to make a point. Disgusting.

[primalmatter]

Probably, but in this case you guys are the vanguard for unwarranted self imposed guilt so I'm okay with it.

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So basically being progressive will actually be the new phase of religion.

You haven't noticed this yet?

Maybe it is just because I am a old grandfather that I have the insight of the ages to help me... This "new" Progressive movement is just the 90's moral panic rebranded for a new age.

We have been through this before the only difference is that the left is diving it instead of the right.

[Tennis]

What a shock, new progressive Canada begins throwing out the rule of law based on literally nothing but the claims of the person who initiated the lawsuit.

"Who cares if the woman can't even put an accurate timeline together verified by anybody else. Facts? Who needs facts? Listen and believe!"

Going to be interesting watching SJW Canada slowly destroy itself from within.

Then again it's just another Tennistroll thread so who knows. Carry on.

So what you're saying is that if a women gets raped that's just her fault then? For not having a camera and witnesses?

[Tackhisis]

So apparently they can find people guilty on suppositions alone in Canada? The country is even more backwards than I thought.

[Seranthor]

So what you're saying is that if a women gets raped that's just her fault then? For not having a camera and witnesses?

Why bother with things like facts, or evidence, or hell... save the expense of a trial... all men are guilty of something, just lock them up and throw away the keys. Right? Isn't that what YOU are saying?

[TheDestinatus]

So what you're saying is that if a women gets raped that's just her fault then? For not having a camera and witnesses?

Not saying that at all, there is no proof that this happened outside of him vs her stories. I had sex with my ex after we broke up, no one was there video taping us so the only thing that makes this story different to mine is that there's no law suit because she didn't lie and say it was not consensual. No proof it was rape, if women want to be taken seriously they should be coming forward straight away about it, if they want it to look like rape they should fight back in the moment its happening so that it looks like rape.

No markings, no screams heard by neighbours... just words.

[KrazyK923]

So what you're saying is that if a women gets raped that's just her fault then? For not having a camera and witnesses?

lol.

Yes of course. That's definitely what I said.

You got me.

[Deleted]

Canada you need to try harder u have nothing on Sweden.
http://www.gp.se/ledare/bred-g%C3%A4...492249?ref=yfp

We let a woman in full niqab that cover everything but her eyes be a witness for the murder charged guy in the only mass shooting we have had here in ages the last one was prolly when i still lived at home so like 20 years ago mayby more.

Btw that mass shooting was in 1 of our no go zones.

[Tennis]

Why bother with things like facts, or evidence, or hell... save the expense of a trial... all men are guilty of something, just lock them up and throw away the keys. Right? Isn't that what YOU are saying?

So what you're saying is that women who get raped have no recourse? They must just live with it while their attackers roam free?

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She needs evidence, like everyone else.

We even let murder-cases go because there is no evidence, why would rape of a woman be any different?

This courtcase just seems to be sending the message to men: "If you rape a woman, murder her afterwards, since she can get you into trouble without evidence"


Women are over-privileged in our society.

Does this sound legit to you?

The version Ururyar told from the witness stand was they’d gone home happily, he’d broken up with her and then they’d had consolation sex.

I googled it and couldn't even find a definition for consolation sex. Seems rather sketchy eh?
You say women are overprivileged yet most of society disagrees. Nice try.