About the "If you don't vote for Hillary you are voting for Trump!" nonsense.

[Theodarzna]

You trying to rationalize your third-party vote?

Not really, I vote how I please,

I am trying to figure out why CERTAIN PEOPLE, think that their candidate is entitled to votes and cite the Nader event as evidence. But in all likelihood a group of Democrats will likely not vote at all or vote Trump.

Yet its the disaffected Bernie voters that piss you guys off.

[I Push Buttons]

I hear the same shit that if you don't vote for Trump you vote for Hillary.

Anyone who says this is a BIG PART of the problem. 3rd party will not win this election, but if people get their heads out of their sheepish asses, more options will arise and in several elections from now we might actually have a more competitive candidates.

If there weren't upwards of three Supreme Court justices in need of replacing then I'd say go for it, throw your vote away on a third party... But for this election in particular you need to pick a side.

Because even if Hillary or Trump only serve a single term, their Supreme Court appointments will have ramifications for decades... Republicans openly talk about overturning Roe v Wade, for example... Something entirely within the realm of possibility if they put three right wingers on the bench... Not to mention gay marriage, etc.

[Pterodactylus]

The intention was for you to vote hillary all along. Trump and clinton are old friends. Trump ran in this election with the intention of being the greater evil since if she had to run against a real candidate she would lose like she did to obama. This is her only chance at ever being president since she's a shitty person.

You need to adjust your tinfoil hat. It's cutting off the circulation to your brain.

[Zarc]

Who the fuck knows, but maybe Hillary people should spend more time figuring out why Hillary deserves a vote and not screeching about spoilers and Trump.

Hillary deserves your vote because the right way to address the wealth inequality is to tax the 1% more and redistribute wealth across society by way of increasing public funding for education and healthcare, meaning middle and low income earners will be able to keep more of their earned money after having paid all their taxes and bills. She also supports increasing the minimum wage which will help grow the economy while also making sure people actually get a living wage. Protectionism and tax breaks in a country where taxes are already low compared to other industrialized country is the wrong way, it's the Trump way. Hillary deserves your vote because in the Information Age more people need to have access to higher education, college is the new high school. She will make sure your income or that of your parents will not block you from achieving your potential by providing the children of low and middle income families a fair shot at higher education by public funding. She also deserves a break because she is a Democrat, and for the last couple of centuries the economy has done better with a Democrat in the White House. The current Democratic President who endorses Hillary has turned the country around after having been left with the Great Recession by his predecessor. Crime is down. The deficit is down. Illegal immigration is down. Democrats will continue this good work, what would make it go faster in the right direction would be if Congress was controlled by the Democrats as well, unfortunately it was only under Democrat control for the first 2 years of the Obama presidency after which they have proven themselves very obstructionist and unwilling to compromise. Hillary also deserves your vote because she doesn't threaten the post-World War II order by advocating withdrawal from NATO or abandonment of mutual NATO obligations or by being in favor of the spread of nuclear weapons to more countries like Trump. Hillary deserves your vote because she is not a disgrace in the public forum, unlike Trump who behaves like a 5-year old bully spewing lies, conspiracy theories and resorting to juvenile name-calling. Hillary and the Democratic party offers actual solutions to issues, some of which they would have done years ago had they had the blessing of the voters, unfortunately they have not because for whatever reason voters tend to largely ignore mid-term elections. Trump offers empty promises of how "great" things will be, backing his credibility not with merits or data but with a series of adjectives glorifying himself.

[May90]

Walking on election day and just voting for Bob Smith for reasons? You've done nothing but cede any small amount of power you did have. You would be better off spending that time trying to help Bob Smith get some recognition or fundraising, because third party candidates aren't going to just up and rock the boat out of the blue one day. It takes a LOT of work to do that.

If I am an apolitical guy spending my time doing physics research, them why would I spend extra time supporting Bob? His campaign is his campaign, and I support him as a candidate, so I vote for him. That's how democratic election system works.

And the "voting for him won't change anything" argument - let's just agree to disagree.

[Gamdwelf]

Sounds like conspiracy theory to me...

It's not conspiracy when there is unadulterated facts

[Pterodactylus]

Yet its the disaffected Bernie voters that piss you guys off.

Only when they say things like Hillary and Trump are the same - or Hillary is a republican, or even whackier shit that stems from some caricature version of Hillary Clinton that exists in their head.

[Barnabas]

You need to adjust your tinfoil hat. It's cutting off the circulation to your brain.

No you need to adjust yours.

[Pterodactylus]

No you need to adjust yours.

I'm not the one posting whacky conspiracy stuff there, Chuckles.

[spinner981]

That is because you deny reality. You've shown it time and time again, that you agree on the kind of bigotry Cruz spouts. I don't know which one is more sad, the fact that you lie to me about not seeing it for what it is, or that you even lie to yourself about it.

For example: Racist is a racist, whether they want to agree with them being one or not.

Except I don't live in a world where you apply the word racist to people who simply make a mexican joke or because you don't vote for obama, rather than to the people who it actually applies to whom think that some races of humans are lesser, subservient or inherently inferior across the board. You can say 'racist is racist', but then you go labeling people as racists who don't fit the actual definition. The reverse is true for the word bigot, you act like its some sort of terrible thing to be, but according to its definition everyone who is intolerant of ANY belief would be a bigot (which is pretty much everyone), but you don't like that so you just call people you don't like 'bigot'.

You can say that I deny reality, but you are the one making up your own definitions of words simply in order to call people you don't like names in an attempt to try and discredit them in the eyes of whoever is ignorant or naive enough to believe you.

[May90]

It's not conspiracy when there is unadulterated facts

Unless someone managed to somehow read her thoughts, it is.

See, and that's the problem. You want to tell yourself that you're trying to fight for change, but you don't do anything. You just wait for someone to do it for you, while patting yourself on the back for being so "socially honest" by voting for Bob Smith.

I do not "fight for change", I just express my opinion by voting for the candidate I support. I'm not patting myself for anything, where did you get that idea? I just suggest that people vote for the candidates they support, not the candidates that are likely to win - that's it.

If you are considering a partner for marriage, will you go with the one that is likely to accept you, or with the one that you want to be with? Even if the latter is unlikely to accept you, won't you even try?

[Santti]

But... I can't vote Hillary.

[I Push Buttons]

Except I don't live in a world where you apply the word racist to people who simply make a mexican joke or because you don't vote for obama, rather than to the people who it actually applies to whom think that some races of humans are lesser, subservient or inherently inferior across the board. You can say 'racist is racist', but then you go labeling people as racists who don't fit the actual definition. The reverse is true for the word bigot, you act like its some sort of terrible thing to be, but according to its definition everyone would be a bigot, but you don't like that so you just call people you don't like 'bigot'.

You can say that I deny reality, but you are the one making up your own definitions of words simply in order to call people you don't like names in an attempt to try and discredit them in the eyes of whoever is ignorant or naive enough to believe you.

Trump said a judge wasn't capable of doing his job because he was Mexican.

What is that?

[Healing Rain]

If I was't voting for Trump I'd write in Ben Carson or Ted Cruz.

[Barnabas]

I'm not the one posting whacky conspiracy stuff there, Chuckles.

Even their children are friends.

Keep believing the reality show of this election.

[Theodarzna]

It's not so much that they're "entitled" to the votes. It's that when you have a candidate that supports X and a third party candidate pops in who also supports X, you'll do nothing but harm the entire platform of X by voting for them.

Even if you don't do any real harm, it's also just not helping.

Hillary so far doesn't have an up to snuff stance on policy positions.

If the platform were definitively in line than sure, but she waffles on TPP, is likely to pick Kaine, and its hard to see what her actual policies when rubber hits the road will actually be.

It, IMHO, Behooves Hillary to earn voters, not voters to obediently vote for whomever and hope for scraps from her.

Think of it like a relationship, okay, you have someone who cheats on you, but hey they tell you "If you go on your own you'll likely end up with worse circumstances." I'd say fuck that.

[belfpala]

If you are considering a partner for marriage, will you go with the one that is likely to accept you, or with the one that you want to be with? Even if the latter is unlikely to accept you, won't you even try?

The analogy would be more like, I'm going into a forced marriage with one of two people. I dislike one of them less, so I pick that one, even though I love person number three over there who isn't involved in this forced marriage.

[DeadmanWalking]

I mean the Dems do the same shit.

Neither party is willing to compromise right now.

Not exactly true. It use to be they would 'reach across the aisle', then Bush admin led us to economic disaster and we were basically sold to China through debt and the Tea Party removed a lot of 'old school republicans' from office, sending a new group with the order that they behave as expected or they would be removed as well, since they didn't get 100% of what the Tea Party wanted (Like getting rid of Obama Care) they called those politicians corrupt and refuse to elect them to higher office, but it is impossible to get anything done in washinton by stonewalling. Will the Democrats return the favor? Of course, now.

But that of course is ignoring the consequences of a Trump presidency, even beyond Trump himself. If 2 justices are chosen by republicans they will cement control of the supreme court for upwards of 2 decades. Even the republicans know this, they are terrified that they could lose the Supreme Court for 2 decades and won't do anything about filling Scalia's seat beacuse it is -that- important. The presidency is just a tin crown, it only lasts 4-8 years and every time there is a chance at election you roll the dice. Supreme court is the crown jewel of politics and shaping social order, those guys sit for LIFE.

There are more consequences to a Trump presidency than just some clown buffoon sitting on a golden chair.

[May90]

The analogy would be more like, I'm going into a forced marriage with one of two people. I dislike one of them less, so I pick that one, even though I love person number three over there who isn't involved in this forced marriage.

That implies that the third person isn't an option. It is. Just the chance of it working isn't big. But it is still a chance at living with someone you love, as opposed to someone you dislike.

[Theodarzna]

Only when they say things like Hillary and Trump are the same - or Hillary is a republican, or even whackier shit that stems from some caricature version of Hillary Clinton that exists in their head.

In terms of things they are various forms of evil, if by being evil they are the same, sure. But both have different sorts of evil.