Lost the love for Enhancement now

[Taeldorian]

Look, I think it's pretty clear from these forums that you will defend the new enhancement to the death, and that's fine. But you cannot argue your way into having people like something that is fundamentally a very different spec to play. Not everyone will like it, some will like parts of it, and some will love it like you do.

Accept that, and stop trying to ram it down people's throat when they don't agree with your love for the spec (I mean that in a harsh but loving way, oh champion of enhancement ).

This is in large part an emotional argument, a lot of us feel like the change is so extreme that it's hard to accept outright, especially when it's on live, and our feedback will not send anyone back to the drawing board (compared to alpha/beta).

In general, I will say that people need to remember that it's early days. I didn't like enhancement so much when I started in WoD, I liked it a lot more in MoP (for obvious reasons, we were awesome), and the dependence on Fire Nova seemed so alien.

By the end of WoD, I felt pretty powerful again, and my utility and survivability was very varied (yes, losing tremor totem and grounding totem is a major, major issue imo), and now that has been taken away overnight. And even though I knew it was coming, it is still very, very frustrating, especially with the lack of ability to counter low survivability with lots of heals. You just go oom, and I feel like a bloody glass cannon.

Lol, you're upset that I'm discussing my class on a discussion forum about classes? That's funny, really. I never once told someone they should or shouldn't like enhancement. To make it even better, in a previous post I stated "some will dislike it and some will like it". I wont deny I made it extremely obvious I love the new enhancement, but its a discussion forum.

I'm not shoving anything down anyone's throat either. I was pointing out that having two resources helped move the spec forward. In early alpha we only had maelstrom so everything was tied to it, everyone complained and now we have our utility tied to mana, which is more beneficial. I'm sure you're only here looking to stir shit up, but it's a discussion forum where people discuss things, get over yourself.

[Bellante_mazrigos]

I actually don't intend to stir shit up at all, I just think it's ok to not have to argue people's feelings. This is a thread about how you feel about the spec, and most people who love the new gameplay seem hell-bent on slamming everyone who doesn't like it, which I'm tired of seeing. I picked on you because you do give a good argument, but a lot of threads seem to be discussions between various people and you answering them all in kind.

Look, I apologize if I came off as an asshat, wasn't my intent, I perhaps thought that this wasn't really a thread about long discussions on the merits of the new, it was more about what people found frustrating about the new, and giving air to that, and perhaps feedback to Blizz at a later stage. In other words, it's a thread mainly focused on what doesn't work well with the spec, which makes the ones defending the spec seem a bit off.

Sorry to be stirring up shit if that's what I'm doing, it's not even my thread, so perhaps I'll just leave it at that and apologize if I was too direct in my language (I meant the part about harsh but loving, in the sense that I think you contribute constructively in everything you chime in on; I was just trying to say that you didn't have to convince everyone).

If you still read me negatively, then let's take the discussion into a PM, as it's not my intent, and hopefully this clears it up.

[Taeldorian]

I actually don't intend to stir shit up at all, I just think it's ok to not have to argue people's feelings. This is a thread about how you feel about the spec, and most people who love the new gameplay seem hell-bent on slamming everyone who doesn't like it, which I'm tired of seeing. I picked on you because you do give a good argument, but a lot of threads seem to be discussions between various people and you answering them all in kind.

Look, I apologize if I came off as an asshat, wasn't my intent, I perhaps thought that this wasn't really a thread about long discussions on the merits of the new, it was more about what people found frustrating about the new, and giving air to that, and perhaps feedback to Blizz at a later stage. In other words, it's a thread mainly focused on what doesn't work well with the spec, which makes the ones defending the spec seem a bit off.

Sorry to be stirring up shit if that's what I'm doing, it's not even my thread, so perhaps I'll just leave it at that and apologize if I was too direct in my language (I meant the part about harsh but loving, in the sense that I think you contribute constructively in everything you chime in on; I was just trying to say that you didn't have to convince everyone).

If you still read me negatively, then let's take the discussion into a PM, as it's not my intent, and hopefully this clears it up.

Its all good, dont worry about it. I definitely made it obvious that I liked the new enhancement and was pushing that a bit too much. There are some points I'm trying to clear up for people such as the two resources thing and a few other things, but I get what you're saying. You're also completely right about the convincing everyone part. I appreciate the response and definitely understand what you're saying, It's all good man.

[Pantsless]

I always find it funny how you told people to not take things personally earlier in the cycle of the Alpha, yet have took something I said in passing to you so personally you do your best to jump on anything I say

Don't be a hypocrite, you have done the same and much worse. Do you want me to start digging for post where you take things from my posts out of context try to belittle me in the most offensive and elitist way ?

I also do recall (which is exceptionally ironic) that you were insistent on a resource system, yet now the taste is sour because it wasn't precisely your design for a resource system. Funny that.

Let me put it this way, what do the fallowing spells remind you of :
- a spamabble builder,
- a finisher that needs to proc and the proc chance is tied to a secondary stat,
- a resource dump spell that hits like a wet noddle
- AoE that revolves around a single spell that makes your single target spells do damage to additional targets ?

Ill give you a hint : when we had the conversation you are referring to, you were dreading the idea that Enhancement might become one. You were all over the place on how blizz was destroying your beloved spec and turning it into a... you guessed it , a WoD Fury warrior.

So, if we are on the subject of irony, how come you are so comfortable now with a spec that has the same basic principles as Fury did in WoD?

[DStrukt]

If you liked the old enhancement with Lightning Bolt, Searing Flames etc, there are talents that can emulate that feeling with Overcharge and Hot Hands. That's what the talents are for: customizing your playstyle to suit your needs. Don't listen to anyone who says you should go for talent X or Y because it's mathematically superior. Talents are VERY close to one another, and if they aren't, they'll be fixed so they are. Unless you play at mythic skill levels, you're not going to notice the difference between talent X and Y.

If this is true I need to check it out

[wordup]

Don't be a hypocrite, you have done the same and much worse. Do you want me to start digging for post where you take things from my posts out of context try to belittle me in the most offensive and elitist way ?

This is called you taking things personally and flying off the handle. You have a chip on your shoulder because I didn't agree with you, that's fine, but actively looking for me in threads to basically just throw muck at me is getting old and pretty childish.

Let me put it this way, what do the fallowing spells remind you of :
- a spamabble builder,
- a finisher that needs to proc and the proc chance is tied to a secondary stat,
- a resource dump spell that hits like a wet noddle
- AoE that revolves around a single spell that makes your single target spells do damage to additional targets ?

Ill give you a hint : when we had the conversation you are referring to, you were dreading the idea that Enhancement might become one. You were all over the place on how blizz was destroying your beloved spec and turning it into a... you guessed it , a WoD Fury warrior.

Fury did not have a spammable builder. Its "finisher" required RNG on a cooldown spell, it was not a proc. These were the core issues I had with Fury that I didn't want to see extended, neither of which are present here. Stormstrike usage is far, far above where Raging Blow usage was given how much it was gated. On that same topic, Fury AoE was double gated by resource costs and procs, of which, ours is not. You have diluted things down to the absolute base level to suit your needs here.

Much like the last time I had a conversation with you though, explaining this is ultimately fruitless because you have made your bed that you dislike me and are intent on making an argument/pick apart anything to try and prove something or other, so I suspect this is wasted breath.

[Gulrok]

I am really enjoying enhancement actually.

[Daffan]

Again, you havent answered what I said about totems. We lost grounding and tremor, but we gained counterstrike, windfury, and skyfury as utility. We still have earthgrab totem, we gained wind rush totem, we gained a better version of capacitor totem. Just because we lost two totems, that makes us exactly like a warrior? You never responded in the other forum, so im assuming you actually have no idea what your talking about here, but just in case you do have an idea, how does losing 2 totems but gaining more in return make us more like a warrior than we were before?

On topic- I love it. Most fun Ive had as enhancement for a long long time. We actually live up to the name Enhancement now. Fun rotation, nice skill cap, etc.

Yeah but you cant have all those totems at once, they are all basically in the same talent levels. Also, one of those sections is in the honor talents. Oh, and feral lunge vs windrush , lol some choice 99% of the time.

So yeah, those huge amount of totems is rubbish and you don't know what your talking about - you make it seem way better then it is.

How is it like a warrior? well we now have pseudo rage and loads of melee abilities with baked in AOE/Cleave we just spam - I don't actually mind this part that much, without boulder-fist and having to spam rockbiter over and over, wow that would be horrible

[Taeldorian]

Yeah but you cant have all those totems at once, they are all basically in the same talent levels. Also, one of those sections is in the honor talents. Oh, and feral lunge vs windrush , lol some choice 99% of the time.

So yeah, those huge amount of totems is rubbish and you don't know what your talking about - you make it seem way better then it is.

How is it like a warrior? well we now have pseudo rage and loads of melee abilities with baked in AOE/Cleave we just spam - I don't actually mind this part that much, without boulder-fist and having to spam rockbiter over and over, wow that would be horrible

Wind Rush isn't a bad choice, especially on high movement fights or mythic+ dungeons because the speed boost can be refreshed. It's a good choice, especially under those circumstances.

As for totems, I understand they're on the same row, but they're still a choice and they're still totems. I'd take counter strike totem over tremor any day. Comparitavely, the ones we have in the pvp talent tree are better than the baseline ones we had in WoD. I find many more situations where counter strike totem is more beneficial to my team than tremor or grounding would have been.

I'm not saying we don't have as many as we did in the past, I'm saying what we have now is still good and in many situations, better. Tremor is definitely missed, but I still find the totems we have now to be just as, if not, more beneficial.

[Raxxos]

I don't care for the resource system changes at all. Too many short buffs to maintain and too many resource dumps to manage. It doesn't make sense to have Stormstrike on a cooldown AND have Lava Lash as a secondary dump. Just take the CD off SS and remove LL. The spec is an absolute mess. I'd play a warrior if I wanted to have a fury based resource mechanic.

Unholy DK actually plays alot like Enhancement did pre-patch so I'll be switching to that. Will miss ghost wolf and Blood Lust though.

[oplawlz]

First time i've enjoyed the spec since they took away 2h windfury.

[Deleted]

Loving the revamp. Every spell actually has a good reason to be there now instead of being just tedious(unleash) or a mindless filler(frostshock)
Lots of synergy and something viable in every situation, for the first time we have proper cleave too.

If you build up some muscle memory and maybe make some nice weakauras to keep track of flametongue/frostbrand maelstrom and the crashing storm buff it feels so much better than the wack-a-mole priority rotation shit from WoD.

Playing around with maelstrom sweetspots, storing up as much as possible for lucky ss sprees without capping is actually fun imo.

[Pantsless]

You have a chip on your shoulder because I didn't agree with you, that's fine, but actively looking for me in threads to basically just throw muck at me is getting old and pretty childish.

If you think I have a problem with you because we had a disagreement in the past you are delusional. I have something against you, that is true, but that is because you are an elitist jerk with a highly irritating self righteous attitude who thinks the sun rises from his ass and sets on his oh so special Google docs. As for me looking you up on this threads on porpoise, your tripping. I read the official and mmo champion threads every day, including your replies and yet I have not engaged you in months. Stop being a drama quin.

Fury did not have a spammable builder.

No, it was a talent. And we have a talent that turns our spamable builder into one with a CD. So i guess Fury got the better deal after all. My bad.

Its "finisher" required RNG on a cooldown spell, it was not a proc.

Seriously, you don't consider RB a proc ? Well, technically Enrage was the proc, but now you are being intentionally obtuse.

Stormstrike usage is far, far above where Raging Blow usage was given how much it was gated.

Usage as in frequency, or as in overall gameplay? Sure, gameplay wise its down to personal preference. I find that the RB/Enrage combo was better then SS/SB combo overall because it offers me some choice on the matter : I can stop and use the proc without fear of overlaping procs or draining MW to fast with back to back procs or I can delay it's use because I have two stacks. They also had Berserkers Rage. If you prefer to have no player input and no choice but to smash those keys like a lab rat pushing the food button, fine, that is you preference.

On that same topic, Fury AoE was double gated by resource costs and procs, of which, ours is not.

So what you are saying is that SB has a trivial role in AoE ? What do you do, spam LL until you bleed all your MW and then stay there looking stupid because you have no MW for your next SB proc ? Also that dose not mean it is not the same principle behind both of them.

You have diluted things down to the absolute base level to suit your needs here.

So? I was trying to point out that at a base level fury fallowed the same basic principles of design. What is your point ? That Fury was actually better ?because they didn't have a spamable resource by default and because they had some sort of logic and player involvment in all those procs ?

... so I suspect this is wasted breath.

Finally something we can both agree about. So happy we have something in common.

[wordup]

So? I was trying to point out that at a base level fury fallowed the same basic principles of design. What is your point ? That Fury was actually better ?because they didn't have a spamable resource by default and because they had some sort of logic and player involvment in all those procs ?

With this sentence alone you've proved why it's pointless. You're so intent on creating ridiculous slippery slope fallacies to put words into my mouth that it's quite clear you do clearly have a chip on your shoulder as I said. As to being elitist, I think that's a pretty unfair word to slap on me given how inclusive I am to literally anyone who wants to ask a question, you're simply angry that I didn't agree with you one time as I said before which seems like an asinine reason to lay such bold words down at my feet.

[Niwes]

I think it's quite simple to understand from the avg joe's PoV -myself included - at 100 we went from a spec which had buttons to press all the time with no resource worries to one which has a considerably slower playstyle when specced into BF, which apparently we should do cause that's the one that'll dish more dmg (?)

yep. i agree here. its just BS when your dedicated class playstyle is a button smasher, and ppl choose that class exactly cause of this fact, and then you change that. that sucks.

[Deleted]

With this sentence alone you've proved why it's pointless. You're so intent on creating ridiculous slippery slope fallacies to put words into my mouth that it's quite clear you do clearly have a chip on your shoulder as I said. As to being elitist, I think that's a pretty unfair word to slap on me given how inclusive I am to literally anyone who wants to ask a question, you're simply angry that I didn't agree with you one time as I said before which seems like an asinine reason to lay such bold words down at my feet.

Unrelated, but your avatar is horrifying.

Anyway, I didn't like Enhancement at all in WoD, but giving it a go in the prepatch I've found it to be pretty enjoyable; I'll probably level a Shaman as one of my mains this expansion because of it.

[Rend Blackhand]

Enhancement has been my spec of choice for years, the only spec I truly ever enjoyed for many expansions but this change in Legion is a total kill joy for me.

I am not a fan of the new playstyle having to build energy and then consume the energy.... also all the new buff timers, having to keep an eye on them..... I am actually demoralised now that my favourite spec in the game has been taken away from me QQ

How do you guys feel?

I'd say give it more of a chance. Once you properly adapt to it its awesome. I much prefer it to the old way now.

[neocount]

Nope, I agree with you OP. I dislike resources I can run out of, which is why I don't play rogue, hunter, or warrior, and I dislike having to watch short-duration buffs. The new abilities are definitely cool in appearance, but the mechanics of the class are a completely different style. I'm glad so many people have renewed interest in it, but while enhancement was my main for Cata and for the first half of WoD, I'm going to stick with Mage for Legion.

[Hivey]

Finally got round to doing a couple of LFR raids with Enhance and absolutely loved it. Still not happy at how CL is also required within the single target rotation (doesn't feel right always spamming an AOE spell).

Catching those SS trains is great fun and during Wolves or bloodlust I had the capacity to fire off instant cast heals to people below 30% HP (no SS up). This showed me we have the capacity to perform emergency rescues if really required.

Feral Lunge, which is rubbish out in the world questing, was actually very nice in a raid I found. Helped skip some hazards and improved DPS uptime.

AOE performance seemed great too, which was a surprise. Managed to keep up with a Warrior who was wrecking shop on trash packs.

[DStrukt]

I'd say give it more of a chance. Once you properly adapt to it its awesome. I much prefer it to the old way now.

Was using the spec icey veins recommended first, just changed it up abit and it makes the way you play different. Call me stupid but from how specs have impacted the game much lately I didn't realise it would.

What specs are you guys enjoying the most? Don't just say boulder spec that's not much of an insight lol