[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[enchiridion]

I said the thing I posted was the most optimal one and that I was going to go another route. Which means my route is not the optimal one. If someone want to know why I personally would go that route they could just ask. Similar to what you did.

Just the way it is presented, its like you are claiming otherwise, the quotes around "most optimal" and removal of yourself ("this is what the theorycrafters say") not that this breakdown goes on in peoples heads, but my thought was, "oh hes says this isnt actually optimal, and has given the changes he would make". like i said not getting pissy, just hoping to help the forum be more concise.

[Yoshimiko]

Are there sims on talent lines yet? I'm curious about Blind Fury/Fel Eruption/Demonic Appetite vs Fel Mastery/Momentum/Prepared. I'm a little worried with high-movement abilities in raid/dungeon content, especially while learning them. Seems like a recipe for failure.

[Vanyali]

Are there sims on talent lines yet? I'm curious about Blind Fury/Fel Eruption/Demonic Appetite vs Fel Mastery/Momentum/Prepared. I'm a little worried with high-movement abilities in raid/dungeon content, especially while learning them. Seems like a recipe for failure.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/aggixx/havoc/

All the current sims

[enchiridion]

Are there sims on talent lines yet? I'm curious about Blind Fury/Fel Eruption/Demonic Appetite vs Fel Mastery/Momentum/Prepared. I'm a little worried with high-movement abilities in raid/dungeon content, especially while learning them. Seems like a recipe for failure.

Study the fights, you should be fine with momentum/fel mastery, unless your RL has rediculous expectations (in which case take nem and keep FM) right now DB always, and blind fury is not worth, its actually a loss without anguish iirc (it extends the time but has the same damage, would just cause more anguish stacks). At the end of the day do what you enjoy

[Yoshimiko]

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/aggixx/havoc/

All the current sims

My mind is blown. This flipped all of my expected numbers on their head. I had almost every tier reversed, from what I'd heard.

I noticed Demon Blades is top - is this before or after the nerf to it? Also, isn't assuming 888 weapons a bit..extreme? I'm all for optimism, but dayum - especially when considering 840 gear otherwise.

[Zeeket]

The sim was done when DB was "overtuned" on the beta, hasnt been updated when it got pulled back into line

[Vanyali]

My mind is blown. This flipped all of my expected numbers on their head. I had almost every tier reversed, from what I'd heard.

I noticed Demon Blades is top - is this before or after the nerf to it? Also, isn't assuming 888 weapons a bit..extreme? I'm all for optimism, but dayum - especially when considering 840 gear otherwise.

These are all current to the last patch, so it's after the nerf to Dblades.

888 also isn't that farfetched - I've 872 with only one M+ relic

- - - Updated - - -

The sim was done when DB was "overtuned" on the beta, hasnt been updated when it got pulled back into line

Pawkets updated it after the hotfix.

It's still best.

[Zeeket]

These are all current to the last patch, so it's after the nerf to Dblades.

888 also isn't that farfetched - I've 872 with only one M+ relic

- - - Updated - - -



Pawkets updated it after the hotfix.

It's still best.

oh my bad, for some reasdon when i viewed it earlier it showed the 14th as the last date it was updated so assumed it wasnt fully up to date

[Mefistophelis]

On the artifact weapon ilvl, mine is only 860 mainly because i got a relatively bad shadow relic which i can't get rid off. World Quests keep popping up with iron and arcane relics and the result of that is my Vengeance weapon is 876 ... irony is laughing in my face

[Yoshimiko]

These are all current to the last patch, so it's after the nerf to Dblades.
It's still best.

No kidding? Even when Blizzard came outright and said they didn't want it to be #1? Huh... Well then.

Does Dblades still want you to have open gcds/time skills with weapon swing timer or any other funny business?

[Vanyali]

No kidding? Even when Blizzard came outright and said they didn't want it to be #1? Huh... Well then.

Does Dblades still want you to have open gcds/time skills with weapon swing timer or any other funny business?

It's because of the way it interacts with Fel Barrage mostly, and Fel Barrage being a god.

Dblades still requires open GCD to proc, but doesn't require a swing timer. It also "saves" it's proc, so if you're on GCD and it would have gone off otherwise the next proc after that will be a double. Stacks up to five times (this could be wrong - but i *think* it's fiveish), so the potential for fury bursts gets pretty insane.

[Ryxxi]

Damn you beat me to it! but the 4th is a main target damage, and as for the 5th thats not really gonna provide you with much of a damage increase, Feast is mostly an aoe increase, and the dodge talent should rarely ever be procced in a raid scenario (as you should be in raid by that time) and inner demons can miss if your target is moved out of its range.

Hmm so many decisions.

[Deleted]

Just a small question to you guys: How viable is Havoc in Mythic+ and Mythic raiding? I'm considering rerolling to DH for progress raiding but I'm not sure how they perform in comparison to other melee specs.

[Butosai]

Just a small question to you guys: How viable is Havoc in Mythic+ and Mythic raiding? I'm considering rerolling to DH for progress raiding but I'm not sure how they perform in comparison to other melee specs.

It's probably the best Mythic+ dps and it's really high in raids aswell

[Tato23]

It's probably the best Mythic+ dps and it's really high in raids aswell

Really? Have they nerfed assas rogues on single target? I haven't kept up, but i thought they were still king, I think we got them stomped in aoe though. Not sure if we are top on aoe, cleave, or ST. But we might be, haven't been keeping track of beta builds, course we haven't had a new one in awhile.

[Butosai]

Really? Have they nerfed assas rogues on single target? I haven't kept up, but i thought they were still king, I think we got them stomped in aoe though. Not sure if we are top on aoe, cleave, or ST. But we might be, haven't been keeping track of beta builds, course we haven't had a new one in awhile.

They did nerf assassination but I don't know how much. Mythic + is more about the AoE dps though while still having good single target, which DH fills.

[Tato23]

They did nerf assassination but I don't know how much. Mythic + is more about the AoE dps though while still having good single target, which DH fills.

Okay when you say Mythic + I think i just figured out that still means dungeons right? That makes sense. I know we are probably going to be kings in dungeons because of how fights setup, but I dunno, for some reason the main thing I love the most is playing a class that can seriously bring it and compete for top single target. Who knows if that will be DH, i am sure I will love the class regardless, but maybe I am the only one that craves those meters :/ Call me an elitist, and I am not even in a serious raiding guild haha.

[enchiridion]

Okay when you say Mythic + I think i just figured out that still means dungeons right? That makes sense. I know we are probably going to be kings in dungeons because of how fights setup, but I dunno, for some reason the main thing I love the most is playing a class that can seriously bring it and compete for top single target. Who knows if that will be DH, i am sure I will love the class regardless, but maybe I am the only one that craves those meters :/ Call me an elitist, and I am not even in a serious raiding guild haha.

DH sit roughly in the middle of the top dps, somewhere in top 3ish area, if you arent in a serious raiding guild you shouldnt have a problem topping the meters, though as with any spec/class there will be fights you will excel at, theres gonna be fights where you struggle at, when it comes down to that, good play is what will determine your place on the meters

[mob1lejunkie]

Has any theorycrafting been done to determine the optimal rotation?

[SGCelerrimus]

Hello everyone, I am a little new here but I am trying to figure out the best way to go about Havoc DPS. I have read here on/off, and I have looked at a few SIM sheets, but I am still confused on what the best approach is.

I am currently running/planning on running: Fel Mastery, Demon Blades, Bloodlet, Soul Rending, Momentum, Master of the Glaive, and Demonic.

Currently I can pull between 175k and 330k depending on the fight. I try to always buff Bloodlet with Momentum, and I use Fury of the Illidari on CD basically. I use Eye beam whenever possible, but if I am in Metamorphosis I save it until its over so I can get an extra 5 seconds in Demon Form. I try to only use Vengeful Retreat when I have Fel Rush available so I can get back to the fight instantly, and I use Chaos Strike as my main DPS ability. I only use Blade Dance for 3+ targets typically. Is there anything I could potentially be doing better, or something I missed entirely that will help me do higher sustain DPS?

A friend of mine said I might get a bit more out if I used Felblade and Prepared instead of Demon Blades and Bloodlet respectively, but last time I tried out those abilities I didn't do that stellar. I am currently sitting at 842 ilvl.

Also, my Artifact Calculator is at Fury of the Illidari, Warglaives of Chaos, Sharpened Glaives, Feast on the Souls, Critical Chaos, Chaos Vision, Anguish, Balanced Blades, and Unleashed Demons.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Before I forget, I also am prioritizing Crit, then Haste, then Mastery, then Vers.