I Had More Spells at Level 60.....

[Valraine]

Lol at all these casuals telling us how it takes more skill, or that pruning makes the game have more depth, yadayada. Even saw someone say that using 1 ability wrong out of 10 abilities means you're doing everything right 90% of the time, while as using 1 ability wrong out of 5 abilities means you're doing everything right 75% of the time. Guess logic evaded this guy, as if you're using an ability wrong out of 5 abilities, then you'd be definitely using more abilities wrong if you had 10 abilities. The more abilities you have, the harder it is to use them all perfectly.

People that say that you only use 10% of the abilities in past expansions are hyperboling it to hell, and sure as a PvEr you probably don't use a lot of abilities in these scripted encounters--so why do you want them removed if you don't use them anyways? Don't put them on your bar, because PvPers will use these abilities. #GoPruneYourself

You literally used every keybind (except the cosmetic or flavor things like eagle vision, etc) in PvP. They all had a use, and sure you can probably prune a little from the wrath era to make it a little bit more accessible for new players rather than veterans just stomping everyone who switches from PvE to PvP--though that should STILL happen: better players should always win, and the game shouldn't be dumbed down to the point that everyone's basically on an even playing field.

Pruning, how it has been done in legion, is pretty much a race where there's a speed limit, so the athletic guys can't out run the fat kids. Only time the athletic guy will win is if the fat kid gets distracted by hamburgers and slows down further.

[Traveler Voltin]

It needed to happen.
End of story

[Lochton]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

Not really that painful... Only real painful bit is the mass of self-heal boiled down. Else, not really...

.. Why is it these threads appear every time Blizzard just touched one button, yet at the earlier time... People complain about too many buttons.

[Deleted]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

On the bright side, you can now quit WoW!
You don't have to feel the pain and the frustration. You don't have to deal with inevitable change and iterations of the systems!

I bet you didn't see that bonus coming!


In other news - the game is evolving, the systems change. Product development is one of the things that *must* keep happening, otherwise the game would have died long time ago.

Some people have hard time coping with change. Don't quite see how forum posts can cure that.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Traveler Voltin]

Why do people think you need 30+ spells?

[Valraine]

In other news - the game is evolving

You mean devolving? Evolving would mean that things are progressing to something more beneficial, but the subscriber numbers have proven time and time again that pruning abilities (which began in cata) has steadily contributed greatly into the decline of subscriptions. The starkest example is WoD, due to how people were promised that it would go back to the roots, and granted yes the content drought was a good part of it, but the entire PvP scene completely died during WoD because of this. It has never been this bad, and it is worse by a mile.

Product development is one of the things that *must* keep happening, otherwise the game would have died long time ago.

You can still do that while keeping a good number of abilities that ensures you have fun with your class, and it will take time for you to master your class--content wasn't the only thing that kept you busy, it was why PvPers were content with doing the same arenas over and over again due to how fun it was.

Some people have hard time coping with change. .

If you're saying people are going to have difficulty with adjusting to legion's incredibly linear and simplified design, and that is the reason they are objected to it because they can't adjust to something easier, then you are incredibly misguided.

[Deleted]

My lock at 70 had more spells than I had places for keybinds. It was getting silly the pruning needed to happen.

especially for shadowbolt spam

[Valraine]

Why do people think you need 30+ spells?

Why do you think we need more than 2 abilities? Shouldn't arcane shot and bestial wrath be enough? That's your argument.

Because having more spells that can be used in unique ways that A) someone else might not think of, and that makes you better B) the lower the number of things you have to manage makes everything easier, and thus harder to separate yourself from less experienced players. C) You've more to master, thus increasing the longevity of one's interest in the game.

If you want to play something with 5 buttons, why not play Diablo 3? It's easy, and since you don't want to work towards mastering your class through a journey (which RPGs are), I imagine it would be more suitable for you.


The best part about it all is that you don't need to bind everything when you're starting: once you get enough experience with the class, you start to add more abilities in. Take for example this screenshot from wrath when I downed lich king normal mode--it wasn't amazing, but I did well enough with that few keybinds despite of the fact that wrath had the highest number of abilities in the game.

[zhero]

Why do people think you need 30+ spells?

why do you want just 3?

[Valraine]

Ofc if his side is "You don't need 30+buttons" and your side is "How about only 2 buttons" then maybe the comfort zone is at 15? And not ridiculing it down to having only 5. Because with your reply you open yourself up to more hyperbole and the answer of "Oh well, if biggerer is betterer - lets have 100 buttons"

Yes, it's a hyperbole to demonstrate how the statement makes no sense, just as 100 keybinds would be. The thing is, people had no issue with the number of keybinds in wrath. NO ONE complained? Why? Because people did self pruning. They didn't bind certain abilities until they got confident enough. The number of abilities in this game should be based on how many you can actually fit onto the action bars with enough room for certain macros--that's well over 30, and you don't need to bind them all.

[Deleted]

You mean devolving?

No. You're saying that.
Fun is subjective. Do you want to argue your taste in music as well?

If you're saying people are going to have difficulty with adjusting to legion's incredibly linear and simplified design, and that is the reason they are objected to it because they can't adjust to something easier, then you are incredibly misguided.

Stop trying to add your own views into my quotes. I didn't say that.

I'm saying some people don't handle change very well, no matter what the change is.
You can either adapt to the change - make the best of it.
Or you can decide this iteration is not for you.

[Srg56]

but it's two spellbook pages of things you'll probably actually use as opposed to a lot that you won't

At first i thought this meme was a running joke but i see it repeated non stop. So i guess some are actually serious.

I don't know of any people who died or otherwise really disliked having more than two pages of spells solely because they didn't have opportunities to use all of them, ALL the time. Though now that i think about it, i may have heard of a shaman player who had a stroke because of how stressful it was to have sentry totem and not be able to use it in pve, so you might be onto something here.

Why do people think you need 30+ spells?

Because it offers more options for gameplay, especially in pvp. Having played hunter during wrath with over 50 keybinds without including pet management, legion classes feel really empty no matter the talent choices. Having to learn and remember many abilities and how to exploit them to their max potential is also fun, at least for some of us.

[zhero]

especially for shadowbolt spam

you didn't go affliction for empowered curses?

[Alvito]

2 pages where you use about 90% of the spells, better then 8 pages were you use 10%

Quality over quantity for sure. A big change also is no more down ranking of spells, so of course there are less spells.

[Deleted]

Blizzard are masters at tricking their fans into thinking this is for the benefit of the game when in reality its to do less development work/balancing. I swear in 2 expansions time it will include 1 raid, 1 boss, 1 leveling zone, 1 Armour slot(you KNOW this ones coming), 3 buttons per class and still people will be spamming BS like "Less is more!" and "give them a break they are trying their best!"

[Aceveda]

Indeed you did. I think loads of them were also like "Flash heal rank 1, Flash heal rank 2, Flash heal rank 3" etc. Ofc that was valuable for the time of using downranked heals to conserve mana - but what spells did you find so valuable, that it is painful to see them gone? And that really enhanced your game at lv 60?

If It is a matter of "But 4 pages are more than 2, so that is clearly better, because it is a higher number" then I wonder why people call for another squish because numbers are too high?

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Ofc if his side is "Who needs 30+ spells" and your side is "Why do you think we need only 2 abilities" then maybe the comfort zone is at 15 buttons? And not ridiculing it down to having only 5 and telling people to go play another game?. Because with your reply you open yourself up to more hyperbole and the answer of "Oh well, if biggerer is betterer - lets have 100 spells"

More abilities = more counterplay (which is the main content in PvP, class design & counterplay).

Ability pruning is killing the game thanks to you guys, if you want to use just 5 buttons, then you should've pruned your own bars.

[Alvito]

It's literally the exact opposite. There aren't even "rotations" in the game so much more anymore. It's more of a priority you have to follow for your abilities. Prior to Wrath, many classes would just spam one button and that was it.

You could get really lazy and macro out your rotation. Then really only press one button every few seconds and let the game do the rest.

[Deleted]

Level42 Warlock in TBC or WotLK...



They fucking made every class no fun! In the next Expansion you fucking have to only click one button and your Class plays automatically!

I can't fucking wait for Legecay Servers, Live is just a joke!

lets see, 4 buttons for professions (useless), 3 buttons for pets (now you get one i think), 5 buttons for food and crap, a button to melee (wtf? just click on target), what else is there...few buttons for buffs you would just spam everytime it ran off (PvP its actually miles better now without pressing buffs every time you die, its not like everyone had macroed as many buffs as possible along with their mounts, right? so much "immersion"). Enslave which you never used, dunno if banish is still there.

Only thing that I would miss are some old curses. What do YOU miss? Some talents that boost your immolate by 10%? You about 5 buttons with every spec, just like you did with warlock back in the days.

[prwraith]

Utility and flavor spells are fun. Who cares if you don't use them during a raid. It's a game it should have things you can do just because you can. Hell my druid can change the weather at will in other games. Why? Because he can it doesn't serve any purpose. And it's cool.

[Deleted]

Also true. In hindsight TBC seems CoE and Shadowbolt. But in all fairness, we are talking one class, one specc and 9 years ago.

yup people use to say this "just this one class" thing...I played rogue, it was sinister strike, slice and dice, eviscerate, sometimes when boss wasnt immune to bleeds I used rupture. One button or 4 buttons...I still dont see these 30 abilities being used anywhere.