I Had More Spells at Level 60.....

[shoegazing]

The rotations are fundamentally the same, for every class, unless it's had a massive overhaul. You still have everything important, you just don't have 20 abilities you never use that you feel compelled to have on your bars. Any class defining spells that you don't use, but are defining, have stayed. Enslave demon for example, in the last 7 years I have probably cast that spell less than 10 times. People would miss it though, so it has stayed.

"playing" is no different, you still use the same amount of abilities as before, you just don't have 5 bars with stuff you don't even use. It allows for much nicer UI layout for one, which I'm not complaining about

The flaw with your position is that it is based around the idea that your content / your playstyle are the only ones that exist in this game.

If you still feel like you have every button you need, all that means is that Blizzard didn't prune the buttons you were using, they pruned the buttons other types of players who do other types of content were using.

[Deleted]

you are likely extremely frustrated. I log on to my rogue and I see empty holes on my action bars where beloved abilities used to reside, and I just get instantly sad and frustrated and want to log off.

If empty slots in ability bars really have that kind of effect .. Just a suggestion - but maybe you're in need of a break?
It's a game after all. Take some time off - come back next expac.. it might help to gain some perspective into things.

I did this over Wrath (because I hated the changes from TBC). Came back to Cata.

It's supposed to be fun. It's a game.

[Deleted]

PvP required you to use 100% of your spells.
I personnally like the class changes, but that argument is wrong since you'd always use almost all of your abilities in a PvP situation

You mean like Hawk eye or Far seeing in vanilla? Just a tiny example of how wrong that statement is. No class ever used all keys, take plague strike for frost dks for an instance, you might have it on your bar but never press it more than in very niche scenarios which fyi mostly applys to a PvE perspective where you didn't have glyphed outbreak and ended up in a diseaseless window.

[Lioo]

Not sure what to argue about, but w/e
Lately (after pre-patch) i played on my fire mage and mm hunter, mostly on the mage though.
Well, playing mage i really got a feeling, that i chose talents here and there, just to adapt to situation, a lot more than back in days and i really love it.
I really like how the talents are designed.
Concerning mm hunter, first thought it was broken. Spend like 30 mins at the dummy to get the idea of what is going on, spent about 30 more to look through spells, to check if i was missing anything. This toon seemed a really easy one to play, though i had a feeling that if you miss something in rotation you really lose a lot of dps. Also saw a good ammount of mm hunters doing really low damage.

[shoegazing]

You mean like Hawk eye or Far seeing in vanilla? Just a tiny example of how wrong that statement is. No class ever used all keys, take plague strike for frost dks for an instance, you might have it on your bar but never press it more than in very niche scenarios which fyi mostly applys to a PvE perspective where you didn't have glyphed outbreak and ended up in a diseaseless window.

Hawk Eye and Far Seeing were both used in PvP, e.g. in Arathi Basin when you're at Lumber Mill you have the high ground and can see the entire battlefield and call out 'Incs' ("3 incoming to mine!") to your team.

Your position is incorrect because it is based on an incorrect premise - the premise that your playstyle and your content are the only playstyle and content that exist in the game.

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If empty slots in ability bars really have that kind of effect .. Just a suggestion - but maybe you're in need of a break?
It's a game after all. Take some time off - come back next expac.. it might help to gain some perspective into things.

I did this over Wrath (because I hated the changes from TBC). Came back to Cata.

It's supposed to be fun. It's a game.

I'm very content with my life. Thanks for your concern but it's not an issue and it's not relevant to the topic of this thread, which is ability pruning.

[Deleted]

which is ability pruning.

Which already happened.
What could this thread possibly achieve on that front? Apart from arguing pros and cons between some old version and the current live version?

[shoegazing]

Which already happened.
What could this thread possibly achieve on that front? Apart from arguing pros and cons between some old version and the current live version?

Believe it or not, Blizzard does actually listen to its players.

Discourse benefits the game and the community.

What exactly is your purpose in being here? What are YOU achieving? Why are you posting in the thread if you think the discussion here is meaningless? Why not just 'move on' as you have suggested to others?

[Deleted]

Hawk Eye and Far Seeing were both used in PvP, e.g. in Arathi Basin when you're at Lumber Mill you have the high ground and can see the entire battlefield and call out 'Incs' ("3 incoming to mine!") to your team.

Your position is incorrect because it is based on an incorrect premise - the premise that your playstyle and your content are the only playstyle and content that exist in the game.

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I'm very content with my life. Thanks for your concern but it's not an issue and it's not relevant to the topic of this thread, which is ability pruning.

And who ever said I don 't do PvP? It's not my focus but I've put enough time into to at least have a more than fair understanding. It doesn't change the fact that you had "dead skills" in all previous expansions though, some classes still have them in Legion despite the prune.

[Deleted]

Believe it or not, Blizzard does actually listen to its players.

Discourse benefits the game and the community.

Feedback benefits the game. Discourse doesn't.
And the time of feedback regarding pruning is long gone. It was submitted during alpha, Blizzard read it, listened and moved on regardless.
So now we have pruned abilities. Now is the time to adapt or gtfo.

[shoegazing]

And who ever said I don 't do PvP? It's not my focus but I've put enough time into to at least have a more than fair understanding. It doesn't change the fact that you had "dead skills" in all previous expansions though, some classes still have them in Legion despite the prune.

So the buttons that were pruned were pruned because they were 'dead skills'?

Rogues lost a lot of buttons. Which one of them was a 'dead skill'?

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Feedback benefits the game. Discourse doesn't.
And the time of feedback regarding pruning is long gone. It was submitted during alpha, Blizzard read it, listened and moved on regardless.
So now we have pruned abilities. Now is the time to adapt or gtfo.

You are wrong. Discourse influences feedback.

Communities are not static; player opinions can and do evolve just like in any other setting.

[thunterman]

The flaw with your position is that it is based around the idea that your content / your playstyle are the only ones that exist in this game.

If you still feel like you have every button you need, all that means is that Blizzard didn't prune the buttons you were using, they pruned the buttons other types of players who do other types of content were using.

The fun abilities that you use while messing about in town are for the most part still there. There are Tomes e.t.c that bring back some of these spells. 90% of what was removed was spells that were literally useless 99% of the time. Allot of CC went, because every class had 1-2 stuns and an interrupt, it was causing issues in PvP. The prune was mostly in the name of getting rid of redundant spells, while also balancing the game to some extent. Specifically a warloc, I can't say I miss a bloddy thing. You gain shards passively instead of with drain soul, if you have a weird attachment to drain soul, it's still there in the talents. My Mistweaver Monk was watered down a hell of allot, fortunately, after re-configuring my Clique, my bars were done, because everything they removed wasn't even on my bars anyway. The healing spheres for example, it is mathematically proven to be the most useless healing ability in the game, because almost every spell you cast heals more than twice as much as detonate chi. Why would you be mad that it's gone? It's going to make people better at the game, because they aren't using bad abilities all the time.

FYI, Not played warlock since TBC/WoTLK time, didn't like the changes - Demonology is by far the most fun spec for me right now, in all it's 5 button glory.

Quality over quantity.

[Deleted]

Communities are not static; player opinions can and do evolve just like in any other setting.

Yet, it's still too late. The time for feedback and/or discourse was in alpha. Blizzard made their call.
This is pointless post-argumentation which doesn't change the fact. The patch is already out.

[shoegazing]

The fun abilities that you use while messing about in town are for the most part still there. There are Tomes e.t.c that bring back some of these spells. 90% of what was removed was spells that were literally useless 99% of the time. Allot of CC went, because every class had 1-2 stuns and an interrupt, it was causing issues in PvP. The prune was mostly in the name of getting rid of redundant spells, while also balancing the game to some extent. Specifically a warloc, I can't say I miss a bloddy thing. You gain shards passively instead of with drain soul, if you have a weird attachment to drain soul, it's still there in the talents. My Mistweaver Monk was watered down a hell of allot, fortunately, after re-configuring my Clique, my bars were done, because everything they removed wasn't even on my bars anyway. The healing spheres for example, it is mathematically proven to be the most useless healing ability in the game, because almost every spell you cast heals more than twice as much as detonate chi. Why would you be mad that it's gone? It's going to make people better at the game, because they aren't using bad abilities all the time.

I'm sure CC feels like a problem in PvP if you are the type of player that doesn't keybind your Wind Shear or Grounding Totem because they aren't related to your damage rotation.

:^)

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Yet, it's still too late. The time for feedback and/or discourse was in alpha. Blizzard made their call.
This is pointless post-argumentation which doesn't change the fact. The patch is already out.

I'm not doing this for Legion, I'm doing this to influence the community so that future expansions are better.

All of this is besides the point and tangential to the thread. Why are you derailing the thread and why are you so concerned that other people are discussing the game?

[Deleted]

Dont forget artifacts have abilities, and if youre worried about pvp; in legion you get a special talent tree full of abilities for pvp

[Deleted]

I'm sure CC feels like a problem in PvP if you are the type of player that doesn't keybind your Wind Shear or Grounding Totem because they aren't related to your damage rotation.

:^)

you do realise most cc is instant and there is only 1 class with grounding totem. Or maybe according to your logic, every class should have a grounding totem, while at it, let's also give every class a death grip and a charge. cause having everyone being able to do the same things is so much better. /s

[Teaklog]

Even in pvp you used at best 10% of those spells. They removed useless spells and I say good.

Because deep freeze is a useless spell. Because frostjaw is a useless spell. Because prismatic crystal was a useless spell. Because blazing speed was a useless spell. Because cold snap was a useless spell (the 30% heal was a cooldown in and of itself). Because alter time was a useless spell (Oh wait, it had a huge use, then they removed the use, then used the fact that the spell was useless as an excuse to remove it. A very much loved spell that still had a use even after they nerfed it into nothing. ?????) Oh and rip frostfire bolt.

Sure de-curse is debatable, as it separated good mages in PvP who dispelled hex from the bad ones, and you COULD say the decision between conjuring food for myself vs. making a table is useless, but really? They really had to merge make table vs. conjure food into one spell? Thats going to save key binds for all of the 0 mages who have either of those bound to a key. Buffs also I think are borderline, just because I'm a mage and I love stealing your buffs, however thats the only reason to ever keep them in. Those are the 3 useless spells I lost, however I also lost 5 spells that were in absolutely no way useless.
Sure, every other class lost them too, and I am all for reducing the arms race - For example, frostjaw is new, alter time is relatively new, I could see why they would remove those. But they removed deep freeze. The shatter combo IS a frost mage, and while it still can be done with frost nova, frost nova breaks on damage, and you get so many FoF procs that frost mage gameplay is no longer about shatters. Blazing speed they baked into cauterize for god knows why. I think it was because blazing speed has been around for so long they couldn't outright remove it, so they merged it with a pointless spell now (cauterize) so they will not have trouble removing it later (Like alter time). Prismatic crystal I understand because its such a deeply hated spell. You can go through this with every single spell they removed
However, what confuses me is that they didn't prune anything. They also added frozen touch (and equivalents for other specs), they added flurry, they added ray of frost, they added glacial spike, they turned rune of power into an active button and not something thats bound to [U] that you'll hardly ever hit, they brought back frost bomb, they added shimmer, they separated ice nova from frost nova (ice nova now same talent row as frozen touch), they also added back temporal shield, and we will get a new spell from my artifact talent.

Its been a week and I'm still trying to figure out what they did exactly. I'm not any stronger or weaker, they removed a major part of my playstyle (shatter), and they added a whole bunch of clutter to my action bars. They removed all of my "useless" spells that I had keybound to far button like [T], [5], and [H], then added a whole bunch of spells that I need to regularly hit. Now I have 1000000 buttons that need to be crammed into [`][1][2][3][e]/alt, and hardly any buttons besides those. I don't understand.

tldr; Blizzard spell pruning: Remove 7 iconic spells, add 10 "iconic" spells.

[shoegazing]

Dont forget artifacts have abilities, and if youre worried about pvp; in legion you get a special talent tree full of abilities for pvp

I've played the beta.

My teammates have played the beta.

My guildmates have played the beta.

It's a little better but not by much. It's still very linear and one dimensional.

[Deleted]

All of this is besides the point and tangential to the thread. Why are you derailing the thread and why are you so concerned that other people are discussing the game?

Because posting pointless threads is against the forum rules?

[Deleted]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

So did I, but my mage in Molten core used "Frost Bolt", "Arcane Intelect" and "Conjure food/water" only.
My Rotation was "Frost Bolt" followed by "Frost Bolt" followed by "Frost Bolt" followed by ... O shit.. a "Frost Bolt".

So please fuck off with your rose tinted glasses.

[shoegazing]

you do realise most cc is instant and there is only 1 class with grounding totem. Or maybe according to your logic, every class should have a grounding totem, while at it, let's also give every class a death grip and a charge. cause having everyone being able to do the same things is so much better. /s

It's not a 1v1 game it's a team game and other classes have other methods of stopping CC or breaking free from it.

Stopping CC is one of the skills that you have to learn to advance as a player in PvP, and yes nearly every kind of CC in the game is preventable with planning, strategy, teamwork, and proper execution.

Even instant CCs like like stuns can be prevented, avoided, and countered.