Should Masterloot be brought back for pugs?

[Jerichofr]

One of, if not the, best changes in Legion.

[shonist]

If you want remove everything that can not be controlled and can hinder your game experince you must remove humans from the game



dont know, sucky players like you are not accepted in my group

btw, you are

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if im a raidleader and put effort to organize things maybe i dont want give the 735 titanforged class trinket to the guy that pulled 10k dmg with 700 gear and rather give it to the tank who saved the day

and thats why ty god you wont be able to decide over it.
Things are easy my friend, You go personal loot, and you do your best for your chance on your PL. easy as that. if tank doesnt save the day, you wont be looting anyways.

[Deleted]

If you want remove everything that can not be controlled and can hinder your game experince you must remove humans from the game



dont know, sucky players like you are not accepted in my group

btw, you are

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if im a raidleader and put effort to organize things maybe i dont want give the 735 titanforged class trinket to the guy that pulled 10k dmg with 700 gear and rather give it to the tank who saved the day

To be fair, I get your point. Raid leaders do put extra effort in raids and so they should be rewarded with the option to chose the loot rules.
I pug raided HFC tonight and while everyone was willing to trade their personal loot, it quickly became a mess in chat and felt even more unfair then masterloot, since if more then 1 person wants the item u dont need u give it to your friend or the first to ask. The raidleader doesnt decides so who does? the one that gets the item I guess? Not always the one that knows who tried their best or who will help the raid the most with better loot.
Its worse
I changed my mind
Should be reverted

[threads]

no. taking away pug ML is one of the few good things they've done recently.

[Bigbazz]

They need to find a better middle ground, this ruins organised non guild groups. People are thinking only the positives and not how it will affect the pug raiding popularity. It's likely to reduce the incentive for people to make groups to begin with.

[SL1200]

And yet people are doing it and clearing HFC right now.

Hell I ran two groups yesterday just for giggles. The people who didn't use LFG due to it being a cress-pool now will and replace those who leave it.

That's fine and dandy but how old is this content? How many times has it been nerfed? By now most everyone knows the fights, and nearly everyone outgears the raid. What happens when the new raids drop and everyone actually gives a shit about the gear.

I doubt many guilds will be inviting non members to their raids like they have been. I know damn well the one I'm in won't.

[rhorle]

They need to find a better middle ground, this ruins organised non guild groups. People are thinking only the positives and not how it will affect the pug raiding popularity. It's likely to reduce the incentive for people to make groups to begin with.

Not really. Gear can still be traded and distributed but it is up to the individual member who one that instead of the Raider Leader. PuG popularity should still be high because individual members can profit from any run by selling unwanted gear drops. It benefits from smart loot though wasted drops were likely low in most pugs. People can still reserve items in a sense by having multiple friends who can have that item drop agree to trade it to X person.

Guild groups or organized groups can agree on trade rules. Those may or may not be enforced by blizzard if violated. We will see. Non-guild Organized runs have no real negatives other then not being able to use a Loot Council or other similar ML type system. But then why would you need to? Personal loot isn't a devil and pretty much the only negative was the perception of drops you can't use that could have gone to someone else. That is fixed.

[rhorle]

if im a raidleader and put effort to organize things maybe i dont want give the 735 titanforged class trinket to the guy that pulled 10k dmg with 700 gear and rather give it to the tank who saved the day

So? Kick the players you don't want in the group and move on. Don't use them to get gear then say they can't have gear. Lets go with your example. What if I as a member of your raid don't think you, the raid leader, should get to decide gear because you let a 10k dmg with 700 ilevel gear player into the raid. Form a guild or do guild runs if you want to have absolute control over loot distribution.

Or work with the new system and get people more gear by encouraging trading.

[rhorle]

This what if scenario is stupid because if this member of the raid is capable of reading he sees that is a no PL group and by apllying to my group he agreeing with it. I mean wtf

But if the player is a terrible player then why do you keep them around? They aren't helping the group with low dps, you aren't going to give them loot. They are a drain on the group. Why should you as a Raid Leader who keeps useless players in the raid deserve to hand out loot? You encourage people to trade gear. That doesn't mean you encourage them to trade gear to a terrible player. It does mean that that terrible player could get gear that can be treated to a better player.

All this boils down to is you as a raid leader wanting to use terrible players for whatever reason but unwilling to give them loot or kick them from the group. That has nothing to do with PL vs GML at all. It does show that you aren't a very fair or good raid leader though.

[rhorle]

I didnt say anthing about i want him keep around? Point is at the time im am gonna kick him he already received the loot. So thats not like a solution. Thats like saying kick ninjas out when they ninja looted = Problem solved

Yes there are many grey area's in raid performance. But what makes you the expert at determining that? There are no requirements to lead a raid. Why should you be the sole judge of what deserves loot? What if you as the raid leader doesn't perform good enough? Would you deny yourself loot? The problem of a ninja is solved by removing them to the group. Did they ninja X item? Yes. Will they do it again to your group? Nope.

Everyone who helped kill the boss should have a fair shot at loot. After all they helped you kill the boss even if they helped a little. If you don't give them a fair shot at loot then you just used them for loot. You said you didn't say anything about keeping him around but that is entirely what your argument revolves around. Why should a bad player get loot when I could have given it to a better player? They won't if you remove them from group. So remove them from group after one boss and it is no longer a problem unless you get another bad player.

But if you keep getting bad players as a raid leader then you need to improve your inviting skills.

Besides why i should hassle with like what, 30-40 players (that mean 30-40 other human individuals, just saiying) to trade their loot individually and not maybe selling them and scamming it when i can get this done in 1 Minute with a Loot table?

So for a pug it takes you less then a min to distribute every single piece of gear that drops from the boss? Doubtful unless you already have all of the people you are giving gear to already determined. You also won't be dealing with 30-40 players each boss. However 30-40 items being dropped able to be traded just shows how much better PL is over ML. It is either impossible or extremely unlikely to ever get to those numbers though so your concern isn't really valid.

[Socialhealer]

voted no, too much bullshit around ninja looting personal loot is fine.

[rhorle]

All this boils down to that some people can not handle freedom of choice and rather play a Single PLayer game with no real human interaction

Being able to trade gear won through PL shows that the system still encourages real human interaction. Its clear that you either don't understand the system or are purposefully playing ignorant about the system. Either way doesn't make your statement have any truth. PL still require interaction. It just doesn't require one person responsible for loot distribution. I do find your argument that one person deciding loot somehow encourage more human interaction then one or more persons trading loot to be very silly.

[Socialhealer]

They need to find a better middle ground, this ruins organised non guild groups. People are thinking only the positives and not how it will affect the pug raiding popularity. It's likely to reduce the incentive for people to make groups to begin with.

i see the opposite people happier to raid because they know they can't get ninja'd if we lose some people who only make groups because they have shit gear want to get carried and reserve loot for themselves then well done blizzard.

[Bigbazz]

i see the opposite people happier to raid because they know they can't get ninja'd if we lose some people who only make groups because they have shit gear want to get carried and reserve loot for themselves then well done blizzard.

You miss the point, it makes pugs more likely to apply to groups while making leaders less likely to make groups. There has never been a shortage of people applying to groups, but plenty of shortages of players willing to put in the work to organise and run a raid group. This situation for sure helps fairness in the average full on random groups, but mixed organised groups are hurt.

[anon5123]

So happy that ML is gone. All these: LFM ilvl 730 HFC HC, all warlock gear reserved, group makers are so disappointed right now.

^This

Almost every single group had at least 1 piece of gear reserved. Glad to see that "reserving" is no longer a thing.

PL combined with being able to trade the loot to other players is perfectly fine.

[Socialhealer]

You miss the point, it makes pugs more likely to apply to groups while making leaders less likely to make groups. There has never been a shortage of people applying to groups, but plenty of shortages of players willing to put in the work to organise and run a raid group. This situation for sure helps fairness in the average full on random groups, but mixed organised groups are hurt.

maybe it will encourage people to make groups knowing they don't have to handle loot.

[Deleted]

I've been running mythic progress since MoP in an openraid group where we pick up different people every week... Obviously we want Master looter so we can destribute the loot to the regulars. This has completely ruined any meaningful progress of groups that are not on the same server.

That said i have not been in a true pug in years, and i can definitely see why "reserving" items can be a bother

[rhorle]

You miss the point, it makes pugs more likely to apply to groups while making leaders less likely to make groups. There has never been a shortage of people applying to groups, but plenty of shortages of players willing to put in the work to organise and run a raid group. This situation for sure helps fairness in the average full on random groups, but mixed organised groups are hurt.

The only groups it would create a shortage on are those that reserve gear. The benefits of putting in the work of semi-organized groups is still there. Most of the raid leaders in the guild groups I've run didn't like having to deal with loot or loot drama. Mixed organized groups are not immune to this. It will also make it so the non-guild members don't feel slighted by not getting any loot. You also over look that fact that these people will still want to raid somewhere. Which means more might join guilds to still obtain the ML effects or they will just join PL pugs.

The point is it helps as much as it hurts. It has negatives and benefits. Which in the end will balance each other out and next expansion it won't even be an issue.

[Shakou]

LOL this fucking forum, talk about hyperbole. Of course reality is that the instances of people stealing loot from the group and giving it to friends or whatever when the loot rules were stated otherwise, was few and far between. The new system unfairly punishes players who weren't causing issues. As a result good players just aren't going to pug anymore, because why would we when we're going in for only 1 or two pieces of loot and even if they do drop we're not guaranteed them? So whatever you were complaining about before is absolutely meaningless.

[Bigbazz]

maybe it will encourage people to make groups knowing the don't have to handle loot.

Nobody was stopping them from doing that before, personal loot is not new.