Pro-Life duo who filmed at Planned Parenthood cleared of all charges.

[purebalance]

I don't think many people on the left would advocate a 100% freedom of speech.

That has nothing to do with what I said. They believe in their own right to speak and be heard, but when it's something they don't want to hear they riot and assault people.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

So you're for reasonable regulations on abortion, then, right? Great! I am too. I'm sure we're also both in support of reasonable regulations on gun ownership? Because, you know... we're both being reasonable here.

Just curios, how many more gun regulations would you actually like to see?

Spell them all out.

[Poopymonster]

Yes, it quite ghoulish. It shows a real sickness and contempt of human life that I see so common in liberal ideology.

Indeed, they should have the child, pull themselves up by their bootstraps or else starve miserable and poor in the streets, that contempt for human life I see so common in US conservative ideology.

Broad strokes with BIG brushes is fun!

[Annoying]

That is some spin I guess.

However, you are innocent until proven guilty. All charges were unequivocally dropped and without prejudice.

You have to legally and rationally understand that they didn't do any of the things that people have said they did.

Legally? Sure, they had the charges dropped, so they aren't liable in the eyes of the law. Rationally? We have clear evidence that they did. Saying something that goes against the evidence isn't rational, regardless of the AG/prosecutor decision to drop charges. We have the deceptively cut footage and the unedited footage. They admitted that they used a fake ID to gain entry to a PP building. Those things objectively happened.

[Endus]

However, you are innocent until proven guilty.

Why is it people don't understand what this principle means?

It only means that the courts cannot declare you guilty and throw you in prison, obliging you to sue for your release by proving your innocence. That's the alternative to "innocent until proven guilty".

It does not in any remote way apply to accusations of guilt or the "court" of public opinion. Particularly since you're never found innocent by the courts. They're simply unable to conclusively determine guilt, at that particular time. The system is set up precisely to allow guilty parties to go free, because that's seen as the lesser evil than imprisoning the innocent, willy-nilly.

Whether the courts determine if they're legally culpable for defaming Planned Parenthood, that they did dishonestly frame their film to deliberately mislead their viewers is really not in question.

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

Just curios, how many more gun regulations would you actually like to see?

Spell them all out.

This is another topic that I never see any point in debating, because of the extremes you have on both sides ie. opposition to background checks from the right, and stuff like handgun bans from the left.

[Poopymonster]

All of our laws are morally subjective though.

Not sure what your point it.

All morality is subjective.

Over 2 thousand years ago it was OK to kill a slave.

Within the last 100 years, it became OK for blacks to vote, women to vote, the death penalty to be abolished in some states, gays to NOT be stoned in public.

Morals also differ from person to person.

[purebalance]

It's already been verified several times that the videos was misleading and heavily edited, what you saw is not relevant to the fact that the video was pretty much fiction.

Perhaps to the stupid people who got mad about what they saw, but nothing was misleading in that video if you had half a brain.

1) No illegal abortions were being done from anything I saw in that 2 hour video

2) PP was not making profit which is directly stated in the video as the cost they were quoting was directly related to their own costs

3) The fetuses were not having functional organs removed which some people somehow thought. The woman said it was stem cells.


More than likely people were watching other versions and not the actual version. Now the title they had on the video is 100% false as they were NOT selling baby parts, but that's the only misrepresentation I saw. Other organizations might have edited it, but I'd like to see where it was so please show me. Everything I saw here seems pretty fluid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UjIM9B9KQ

- - - Updated - - -

So it's off-topic whining because you want to bash the left? Okay.

The right was already being bashed claiming to be a hypocrite. So how about you go back and tell the other guy both sides have hypocrites. If you can't acknowledge facts as usual, stop replying.

[ItsTiddles]

I am sort of the way actually, I am not the vanguard of other people children, especially if both parents are on board. That being said, I don't think its unreasonable to view people who use abortion as birth control (outside of rape and all the other reasonable reasons for abortion) as contemptible.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it should be main option of birth control, I just know accidents happen. I'm a firm supporter of birth control and condoms, but I also know that they are not 100% effective and are subjected to human error (such as one person lying about being on it or intoxication causing people to be forgetful).

[xuros]

So if someone showed up at your house and claimed to be a city inspector who needed to check something, and their ID checked out, you'd be fine with them looking around your place and taking notes, if it turned out later that they'd faked the ID and were in fact someone looking for dirt on you they could misrepresent to the public?

Don't pretend this is "going undercover". All that means, as a reporter, is not revealing that you're a reporter. These people committed fraud to gain access.

Nope, apples to oranges little red person.

[Saiona]

All this fuss over clumps of cells? sorry not sorry

you still believe the clump of cells shit? Go look up 2nd trimester abortions.

- - - Updated - - -

Friendus is here I better be on my best behavior

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Why is it people don't understand what this principle means?

It only means that the courts cannot declare you guilty and throw you in prison, obliging you to sue for your release by proving your innocence. That's the alternative to "innocent until proven guilty".

It does not in any remote way apply to accusations of guilt or the "court" of public opinion. Particularly since you're never found innocent by the courts. They're simply unable to conclusively determine guilt, at that particular time. The system is set up precisely to allow guilty parties to go free, because that's seen as the lesser evil than imprisoning the innocent, willy-nilly.

Whether the courts determine if they're legally culpable for defaming Planned Parenthood, that they did dishonestly frame their film to deliberately mislead their viewers is really not in question.

Well the court of public opinion and people who care about that are generally intellectually lazy, irrational people who knee-jerk everything that happens.

I am not part of this group, as I would rather live by the rule of law and the notion of innocent until prove guilty.

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it should be main option of birth control, I just know accidents happen. I'm a firm supporter of birth control and condoms, but I also know that they are not 100% effective and are subjected to human error (such as one person lying about being on it or intoxication causing people to be forgetful).

Yeah maybe with the condoms/deceit/MAYBE even the drunk thing, but sorry if I offend anybody by saying people when I say that people who practice "pullout birth control" and then abort in the case of a pregnancy are scum bags. I'm not going to go out and try to make it illegal for them to do so, but it doesn't make them any less scum in my eyes.

Edit: I could maybe even accept lack of access to birth control as acceptable, but within the context of the United States I don't buy it, despite how much you guys like to depict the US as bordering on theocracy, I don't think access to birth control is a pervasive problem in this country.

[Medusa Cascade]

you still believe the clump of cells shit? Go look up 2nd trimester abortions.

- - - Updated - - -

Friendus is here I better be on my best behavior

Would be useful as a fuel source

[xuros]

you still believe the clump of cells shit? Go look up 2nd trimester abortions.

- - - Updated - - -

Friendus is here I better be on my best behavior

Sometimes I have to wonder if these people even know what they are talking about when they post shit like that.

[ItsTiddles]

Yeah maybe with the condoms/deceit/MAYBE even the drunk thing, but sorry if I offend anybody by saying people when I say that people who practice "pullout birth control" and then abort in the case of a pregnancy are scum bags. I'm not going to go out and try to make it illegal for them to do so, but it doesn't make them any less scum in my eyes.

I don't get why they would go that far, to be honest. Why not the morning-after pill? Seems like it would be quicker option.

[Endus]

Well the court of public opinion and people who care about that are generally intellectually lazy, irrational people who knee-jerk everything that happens.

I am not part of this group, as I would rather live by the rule of law and the notion of innocent until prove guilty.

So how do you deal with the inconsistency that results from someone being innocent of all wrongdoing, in your view right up to the moment the jury reads the verdict?

Because according to you, under no circumstances would you ever assert anything other than innocence, until a court determines otherwise. I'm sure if we dig into your post history regarding, say, Hillary Clinton, you'd have never made any accusations about her that haven't been proven true in a court of law.

Or maybe you don't even believe the stuff you're saying, here.

[Orbitus]

Yes it is! Don't argue with him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OT: I'm glad that they aren't getting in trouble. Someone has to expose that shit.

But they didn't expose ANYTHING. They used editing techniques and false credentials to get into a place they had no right being. They lied for a political agenda.

[PragmaticGamer]

First Amendment mentions the Press, "freedom of press shall not be abridged".

Even if they made some mistakes they did a public service by showing tax payers what was happening with their money.

Ignoring the Hyde Amendment, of course.

And the fact that they fabricated "evidence."

But it sounds nice to you, so it's "truthiness."

[Therec]

That is some spin I guess.

However, you are innocent until proven guilty. All charges were unequivocally dropped and without prejudice.

You have to legally and rationally understand that they didn't do any of the things that people have said they did.

The criminal charges were dropped. The civil charges are still ongoing. I will love to see them prove that they did not deceptively edit the original footage or present them in any false way in order to defame Planned Parenthood. They may not go to jail, but they will be sued into bankruptcy.