University Software Engineering Year 2 Subject Choice

[Deleted]

Hi everyone, i am currently studying software engineering in Edinburgh and im about to start year 2. We have the choice between graphics design or web developement for this year.

I am more leaning on graphics design because then i can do more by myself (game programming with GUI etc) but i think maybe web developement ( HTML , PHP & Javascript) could be much more useful. If any of you have experience with those fields could you tell me what do you think of them and if you have any suggestions?

I am thinking that i could easily learn html,php and javascript on my spare time since it doesnt seem that hard and I already know html.

Thank you!

Edit: Here is the module descriptions

Web development:
1. Overview of technologies involved in the development of web sites.
2. Basic networking protocols for the Internet
3. Web page design and development.
4. Client & server side programming using PHP & Javascript

Graphics Design:

This module will cover the fundamental concepts required for interactive graphics programming. Basic mathematical concepts for computer graphics shall be covered throughout the module. Introducing graphical systems and the rendering pipeline, the module will go through creating 3D graphical objects and the use of virtual cameras to interact with the applications made. Particular concepts covered will include terrain rendering, lighting, texturing and the use of 3D models. High level concepts such as programming of the graphical pipeline via shaders and procedural generation of content shall also be covered.

Edit2: Life goals:

I am planning on going into machine learning and AI for my masters and future job applications because its what i am very interested in, not games programming but i still think graphics design could prove more useful at some point of my life? or even as a hobby to make some fun games

Edit3: Responses so far.

First of all thank you for all the responses, i need to clarify a few things:

1) I do NOT want to persue games development in any form or kind, only as a hobby on my spare time because i like the idea of making games for fun.

2) My course so far has been : C++, C, Advanced Maths & Logic, Computer Systems, UI & UX, Java. Year 2 i will be learning SQL, C#, Linux (not really sure what there), Server handling and one of these choices.

3) My goal is to end up in a big company (hopefully) not as a programming monkey but as a problem solver as @xcureanddisease said. I, so far, have been very interested in programming & problem solving and i am looking forward for more.

It seems like Web Development would be more helpful, even slightly, for my career. I will give it more thought and hopefully there will be more opinions coming into this thread.

[LilSaihah]

What precisely would your graphics design courses entail? What programs?

On the face of it I would agree with your assessment, you can comfortably learn HTML, JS and PHP on your own.

[Deleted]

Added module descriptions thank you for discussing this means alot to me

[Deleted]

Graphics would be more edifying for me personally. The web dev class sounds like a high school class to me.

Yep, from what ive heard its not something too hard and people use it to get better grades. They say graphics design is one of the hardest modules in uni, but i dont mind as long as its useful. For me its also about forcing me to study the module. By doing lets say web development i know i will sit and learn it because im forced to.

[Draeth]

Web developers are a dime a dozen, so there's that. Everyone and their brother can write some HTML/Javascript anymore.

(In before the inevitable, "But not GOOD web developers!!!" nonsense from people scared of losing their jobs.)

Spoken like someone who has no idea what web developers actually do.

OT: Graphic design is useless knowledge unless you're going into game engineering (good luck, sincerely, you're gonna need it). Webdev is one of the most in-demand fields in the world.

[Deleted]

Spoken like someone who has no idea what web developers actually do.

OT: Graphic design is useless knowledge unless you're going into game engineering (good luck, sincerely, you're gonna need it). Webdev is one of the most in-demand fields in the world.

Hmm okay, im not going to go into game engineering but i think it is a nice skill to have as a software engineer, being able to design games without the need of a graphics designer.

[Deleted]

If you have to be forced to learn this stuff you may want to change to a different area of study... I've been studying software engineering since before I could enroll in classes for it. 20 years later I still spend free time reading up on things like Hadoop that I was never trained in.

Maybe i said it wrong. I love what i am studying alot, and i am currently at a 93% mark overall. What i mean when i say forced to learn is that it will be a mandatory subject and not something i would learn at some point later when i have freetime therefore i would spend more time on it because it matters for my grades.

[Tyrianth]

Web developers are a dime a dozen, so there's that. Everyone and their brother can write some HTML/Javascript anymore.

(In before the inevitable, "But not GOOD web developers!!!" nonsense from people scared of losing their jobs.)

Web developers don't use HTML or Javascript. Those are the UX/Front-end developers.

Web development is mostly server side work which a very high paying job and requires knowledgeable understanding of multiple different programming languages, scripting languages, understanding of database schema/development.

OP: Go for Web Development, web designers are a dime a dozen.

[Deleted]

Web developers don't use HTML or Javascript. Those are the UX/Front-end developers.

Web development is mostly server side work which a very high paying job and requires knowledgeable understanding of multiple different programming languages, scripting languages, understanding of database schema/development.

OP: Go for Web Development, web designers are a dime a dozen.

But the module will be just JS HTML & PHP client and server side. I am studying software development so this will be the only things we will do web development wise, its all to give us a taste of what masters degree we want to get.

[Tyrianth]

Hmm okay, im not going to go into game engineering but i think it is a nice skill to have as a software engineer, being able to design games without the need of a graphics designer.

Don't be a jack of all trades, pick something and master it. There's a reason why companies don't hire a graphic designer and software engineer 2-in-1.

- - - Updated - - -

But the module will be just JS HTML & PHP client and server side. I am studying software development so this will be the only things we will do web development wise, its all to give us a taste of what masters degree we want to get.

It seems like the module is mostly just teaching you "Web development" from a hobbyist point of view instead of a professional point of view. In which case Bovinity is mostly right, but I would still say go with the Web Development over design. I assume it will still cover database connectivity and how to properly execute queries server side (albeit with PHP), which will still be exceeding useful if you want to be a software engineer. Design is not going help you further a career unless you plan on starting your own company where you are the sole employee doing everything. And even then depending on the software you're developing, design will have minimal impact.

[Deleted]

Don't be a jack of all trades, pick something and master it. There's a reason why companies don't hire a graphic designer and software engineer 2-in-1.

I know!! and i have heard it before sadly :/ But i feel like making games would be a nice hobby for me! But what i want to master is pure software engineering

[Rad1um]

Im actually in the industry and the answers here are just AMAZING. Let me clear a few things up.

1) Web developers are a dime a dozen but there still isn't enough to meet demand.

2) The last thing you want to do as a software engineer student is tackle graphic design and/or web dev.

3) You need to start learning how to solve problems in low level languages like C/C++

4) Read #3. YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO >SOLVE PROBLEMS< in a low level language.

5) "I know how to code" != problem solver.

6) I suggest you do 3-6 months of C++ and then move onto BASH scripting and work your way around Linux.

7) If you want to be hired right out of college by one of the 3 giants like Google then start working on socket programming. Especially in an OS like Linux which has little
support. Dont belive me? Go to googles careers and see how many TCP/IP engineers they're hiring. There isn't enough to meet demand.

8) Web dev bootcamps is the AIDS of the world. Only go to that once you've finished your computer science degree.

9) On the subject of being a game programmer, you're gonna hate life. The pay is shit, they treat you like dog shit, you hardly get to see the actual game. As a engineer you create or modify tools necessary so that other programmers can work on the game better. That "GRANDMAS BOY" syndrome running around that programmers will have the game in front of them the whole time is false. 9 times out of 10, you just see code and the back end. But I cant stress this enough: AVOID THE GAMING INDUSTRY! You'll thank me later. Grandmas boy is hype. A good movie but just hype.

10) Speaking of Grandmas Boy. A game tester doesn't get paid nearly enough to live out of his parents house. Game testers who only do that, game test, only make minimum wage. Companies have already figured out that all you have to do is announce a BETA and you get people throwing themselves at you for FREE, rather than have to employ an idiot who uploads pictures of the game he clearly signed an NDA for. Also, it takes time to train and take care of someone. Or if you're a studio like Daybreak, you can actually get morons to pay for your ALPHA(h1z1) instead of hiring game testers.

Lastly, a game testers life is hard. You guys think that you're playing the game and thats what its advertised as. The reality of being a game tester is: they give you roughly 30 seconds of the game. A small tiny chunk to run around it and test the physics of something. You do this endlessly for months. To put it in better terms: Think of your favorite movie. The best movie you've ever seen. Now how would you like to watch just 30 seconds of that film, over and over for 8 to 12 hours a day for 4 months straight? Thats the life of a game tester.

If you want to make 100k+ a year, avoid the game industry and focus on being a problem solve, NOT programmer. We farm out our programming gigs to India who does it for 15 bucks an hour while you're here expecting 65k+. And to be honest we only hire programmers who cannot problem solve so that we can continue increasing our production budget because management loves to take away the money we need to wiggle around. So we hire anyone so that we can justify keeping said budget steady.

TL;DR: Avoid the game industry.

[Tyrianth]

I know!! and i have heard it before sadly :/ But i feel like making games would be a nice hobby for me! But what i want to master is pure software engineering

Making games would be a nice hobby, but, I'm assuming you aren't paying for a university education to advance your hobby, but rather your career.

If you want to build games as a hobby, you can learn design as a hobby OR if it's strictly as a hobby you can you use free assets found online.

[Barnabas]

Hi everyone, i am currently studying software engineering in Edinburgh and im about to start year 2. We have the choice between graphics design or web developement for this year.

I am more leaning on graphics design because then i can do more by myself (game programming with GUI etc) but i think maybe web developement ( HTML , PHP & Javascript) could be much more useful. If any of you have experience with those fields could you tell me what do you think of them and if you have any suggestions?

I am thinking that i could easily learn html,php and javascript on my spare time since it doesnt seem that hard and I already know html.

Thank you!

Edit: Here is the module descriptions

Web development:
1. Overview of technologies involved in the development of web sites.
2. Basic networking protocols for the Internet
3. Web page design and development.
4. Client & server side programming using PHP & Javascript

Graphics Design:

This module will cover the fundamental concepts required for interactive graphics programming. Basic mathematical concepts for computer graphics shall be covered throughout the module. Introducing graphical systems and the rendering pipeline, the module will go through creating 3D graphical objects and the use of virtual cameras to interact with the applications made. Particular concepts covered will include terrain rendering, lighting, texturing and the use of 3D models. High level concepts such as programming of the graphical pipeline via shaders and procedural generation of content shall also be covered.

Edit2: Life goals:

I am planning on going into machine learning and AI for my masters and future job applications because its what i am very interested in, not games programming but i still think graphics design could prove more useful at some point of my life? or even as a hobby to make some fun games

But's it's completely useless for machine learning.

[Tyrianth]

1) Web developers are a dime a dozen but there still isn't enough to meet demand.

That is completely contradictory. If there is not enough web developers to meet demand then they are, by definition, not a dime a dozen.

[tehealadin]

Web development, many posts want you to have an understanding of web technologies such as jQuery, javascript and php etc, as well as an understanding of your traditional OO languages.

[Rad1um]

That is completely contradictory. If there is not enough web developers to meet demand then they are, by definition, not a dime a dozen.

You didn't read my entire post. Knowing how to program doesn't make you an actual viable programmer.

[Deleted]

Im actually in the industry and the answers here are just AMAZING. Let me clear a few things up.

TL;DR: Avoid the game industry.

Oh thanks for the interesting reply! During my first year we started learning C/C++ and will continue for the next 4 years! We are also doing Haskell for AI. Problem solving is a very big part of my course so i am happy that i meet/will continue to expand on your points 3 & 4. I am not planning to enter the game industry because i have heard exactly what you said many times too, and i would only experiemnt with games development as a hobby. What worries me is the fact that you said that i should focus on being a problem solver and not a programmer? I love programming more than problem solving which might cause some trouble?

Could you expand on what they demand when you say problem solver? what should i practice further etc? thank you!

[aviger]

I have degrees in Web design and Web Development. IF this was the US i would say go to the graphics side, because the degrees i got pretty much just taught things i already knew ;P Waste of time but yay degrees.

[Elim Garak]

Neither webdev nor graphics design is software engineering if you ask me. You don't even need to study that at Uni. So choose neither, unless those are the only choices - then choose whatever and suffer thru it.