One Night in Karazhan

[Twoddle]

Turn 1 trogg turn 2 coin feral spirit, trogg is now a 3/3 with a taunt wall. Turn 3 is whatever, turn 4 4 mana 7/7 you proceed to lose the game because unless you have hard removal for it, it’s an absurd tempo swing.

You've outlined a perfect curve play of course that's the dream. You won't get a Tunnel Trogg opener all the time. Not saying Aggro Shaman is bad, it's the top deck at the moment but it doesn't always go perfect.

[Zethras]

You've outlined a perfect curve play of course that's the dream. You won't get a Tunnel Trogg opener all the time. Not saying Aggro Shaman is bad, it's the top deck at the moment but it doesn't always go perfect.

If you’re able to win the game based on tempo alone in the first 4 turns, something is wrong with the class. I think tunnel trogg needs to be changed to a mana warm type thing, only get +1 for every overload activation, as opposed to each overloaded crystal, and 4 mana 7/7 needs to have 3 overload instead of 2, or needs to have some effect that makes it able to be silenced, or make it cost 5.

[Selastan]

I want those backup singers from the trailer to be cards. Give em a really good effect if all three are summoned on the same turn!

[OrcsRLame]

Holy crap that trailer. That may have been the single cringiest thing I've ever seen in my life. Like... UGH. I feel embarrassed for the devs and the animation team that worked on that.

[Coombs]

Holy crap that trailer. That may have been the single cringiest thing I've ever seen in my life. Like... UGH. I feel embarrassed for the devs and the animation team that worked on that.

If you're going to ruin Karazhan with a party atmosphere and pay homage to The Great Gatsby, then at least make it music from the 20's. The disco made it atrocious.

[Nikkaszal]

Turn 1 trogg turn 2 coin feral spirit, trogg is now a 3/3 with a taunt wall. Turn 3 is whatever, turn 4 4 mana 7/7 you proceed to lose the game because unless you have hard removal for it, it’s an absurd tempo swing.

Turns out if you get perfect dream draw in a tempo deck, you're in a really good spot for that match.

WHO KNEW

[Thrif]

Uh, am I the only one liking the idea of a lighthearted reimagining of Karazhan as an adventure? We've been there so many times when it was dead and know the things by heart, imho this is a pretty awesome idea on Blizzards part.

And yet I read a lot of people complaining about "Karazhan not supposed to be like that"? Would they rather have the old dead thing we've done a billion times?

So unfathomable happy those people aren't designing for blizzard, lol.

[Deleted]

4 mana 7/7. Seems balanced.

implying shaman is the problem in the meta now and not motherfucking control/cthun warrior getting 20 armor in one turn

[Pantalaimon]

If you're going to ruin Karazhan with a party atmosphere and pay homage to The Great Gatsby, then at least make it music from the 20's. The disco made it atrocious.

You do realize all of the ghost trash in between Moroes and Maiden are having a party right? Dining & dancing.

I do agree that the disco theme was a little awkward, but we'll see.

- - - Updated - - -

If you’re able to win the game based on tempo alone in the first 4 turns, something is wrong with the class. I think tunnel trogg needs to be changed to a mana warm type thing, only get +1 for every overload activation, as opposed to each overloaded crystal, and 4 mana 7/7 needs to have 3 overload instead of 2, or needs to have some effect that makes it able to be silenced, or make it cost 5.

Kind of the point of any tempo deck. Look and see how badly tempo mage has wrecked games in the past with a decent curve for the first four turns. Does that mean there was something wrong with mages too?

Or you could just you know hold on to your hard removal. Something + Execute for warriors, Aldor Peacekeeper or Equality + Pyro for pallies, Hex for shaman, SWD for priest, etc. HS has babied players when it comes to getting rid of big minions the turn they are played so even though there are answers for the faceless I don't think everyone should be able to get rid of it the moment it is played every game.

Making Tunnel Trogg only give +1 attack for overload actually makes it much worse for shaman than Mana Wyrm is for mages. Unlike mages overload cards aren't as plentiful for the trogg as spells are for the wyrm so you would see much less of a return than the wyrm does. In addition to this the trogg gains attack relative to the mana overloaded due to the fact that unless the shaman does have one of the few mana unlocks they are gimping themselves next turn. The trogg is working as intended within the restrictions of its own class design.

[Nikkaszal]

Or you could just you know hold on to your hard removal. Something + Execute for warriors, Aldor Peacekeeper or Equality + Pyro for pallies, Hex for shaman, SWD for priest, etc. HS has babied players when it comes to getting rid of big minions the turn they are played so even though there are answers for the faceless I don't think everyone should be able to get rid of it the moment it is played every game.

I have personally spectated games where my friends tossed removal from their mulligan against a shaman and then bitched about how OP Flamewreathed is after they lost.

Know your opponent, know your deck, know what you need to keep to secure advantage. Hearthstone 101.

[apepi]

I have personally spectated games where my friends tossed removal from their mulligan against a shaman and then bitched about how OP Flamewreathed is after they lost.

Know your opponent, know your deck, know what you need to keep to secure advantage. Hearthstone 101.

The thing is...if you are spending all your removals on a 4 cost creature, by the time even stronger ones come out you will have nothing to handle that with.

[Pantalaimon]

The thing is...if you are spending all your removals on a 4 cost creature, by the time even stronger ones come out you will have nothing to handle that with.

The 7/7 IS the strongest minion face shamans have. You're not going to be holding on to your removal for the late game is most of those matchups.

[Nikkaszal]

The thing is...if you are spending all your removals on a 4 cost creature, by the time even stronger ones come out you will have nothing to handle that with.

If you're a priest running SWD, Flamewreathed is literally the ONLY thing it will be used on. Need to get that cleared ASAP anyway.

[Deleted]

I have personally spectated games where my friends tossed removal from their mulligan against a shaman and then bitched about how OP Flamewreathed is after they lost.

Know your opponent, know your deck, know what you need to keep to secure advantage. Hearthstone 101.

Yes, and you should follow your own advice.

The only way a Priest is winning against Shaman is a very strong mulligan. If you keep a 3 mana Shadow Word Death and he doesn't play Flamewrath on 3 with coin/4/5, you're so far behind its not funny because you have a dead card in your hand, because you are playing priest and because your hero power doesn't influence the board unless you're ahead. Sure, the above happens against all classes(which is why priest is dead in standard), but in addition Shamans have stupid toys like the growing tunnel trogg, the 3/2+3/4 or flametongue or mana tide and if you can't answer them instantly you're going to lose anyway. The 7/7 is really not that important in the Shaman vs Priest matchup(or in the shaman vs warrior matchup, in fact i toss away execute against shaman because I know the shaman will toss away the Flamewrath because of execute).

[Nikkaszal]

Yes, and you should follow your own advice.

The only way a Priest is winning against Shaman is a very strong mulligan. If you keep a 3 mana Shadow Word Death and he doesn't play Flamewrath on 3 with coin/4/5, you're so far behind its not funny because you have a dead card in your hand, because you are playing priest and because your hero power doesn't influence the board unless you're ahead. Sure, the above happens against all classes(which is why priest is dead in standard), but in addition Shamans have stupid toys like the growing tunnel trogg, the 3/2+3/4 or flametongue or mana tide and if you can't answer them instantly you're going to lose anyway. The 7/7 is really not that important in the Shaman vs Priest matchup(or in the shaman vs warrior matchup, in fact i toss away execute against shaman because I know the shaman will toss away the Flamewrath because of execute).

There is NO priest deck vs shaman currently that can match their early game. If you run SP + COH that absolutely needs to be your mulligan but otherwise priests can only hope to hold on long enough to get the board back under control and heal up.

What else are you going to hold? Cleric? Will be eaten by their early game without drawing. Curator? Will be eaten by their early game for a loss in tempo. Outside of SP+COH, SWP for a trogg/golem and SWD for Flamewreathed, Priest has NO other good mull options for shaman.

Also think this way:

If you have SWD and they don't play Flamewreathed, you might lose due to dead card. If you DON'T have SWD and they do play Flamewreathed on curve, you DEFINITELY lose right there

[Deleted]

There is NO priest deck vs shaman currently that can match their early game. If you run SP + COH that absolutely needs to be your mulligan but otherwise priests can only hope to hold on long enough to get the board back under control and heal up.

What else are you going to hold? Cleric? Will be eaten by their early game without drawing. Curator? Will be eaten by their early game for a loss in tempo. Outside of SP+COH, SWP for a trogg/golem and SWD for Flamewreathed, Priest has NO other good mull options for shaman.

Also think this way:

If you have SWD and they don't play Flamewreathed, you might lose due to dead card. If you DON'T have SWD and they do play Flamewreathed on curve, you DEFINITELY lose right there

Doomsayer/Auchenai/Circle of Healing/Shadow Word Pain are my usual muligan vs shaman (but I don't play the matchup a lot because Priest is bad). I would never keep Shadow Word Death.

[Venziir]

I really despised this trailer. Naxx and BRM were kind of serious themed. Karazhan should be on the same level but the sillyness went through the roof and I really don't like it. It should have had a much darker theme. Seems like only kids play this children's card game now.
Whats next? Frozen themed ICC?

BRM was far from serious. Just take that banter between Blackwing and Ragnaros - or the fact that you could summon rubber toys from the lava pool on the board.

[Raiju]

BRM was far from serious. Just take that banter between Blackwing and Ragnaros - or the fact that you could summon rubber toys from the lava pool on the board.

'easter eggs' on the board aren't really relevant to the overall theme - they don't get featured compared to the atmosphere, voices, interactions, etc.

[Deleted]

confirmed

your always getting a coffee you must be hyper as fuck :P

[Venziir]

'easter eggs' on the board aren't really relevant to the overall theme - they don't get featured compared to the atmosphere, voices, interactions, etc.

Oh, you mean like the first part of my example...