Opposition to abortion doesn't necessarily make someone a bigot.

[Bollocks]

Meh for all I care fuck abortion. Though I don't support banning it through the use of law.

[Deleted]

Like I always say, when in doubt just follow the science and remove all bias of "how things should be"

Zygotes aren't really anything resembling a sentient life form, let alone a human baby - it's a single-cell organism that divides via mitosis, which is how most things start, including mushrooms, mold and yeast

Abortion has existed for thousands of years, in Ancient China, India, Egypt, the Roman Empire - indeed Hippocrates (yes, the oath guy) even mentions it, Aristotle was pro-abortion

It has always been a source of controversy though, just goes to show some things never change

[Deleted]

My argument is asinine? I'm not the one job plotting the human reproductive cycle into various stages and cycles. The only ignorance here is pinpointing one point in a timeline and ignoring the process itself.

Yes. Your argument is asinine. This one point in the timeline defines when a child is theorised to be capable of thought and is therefore actively terminating a human life. Not a potential life, but an actual life. This is the point when the rights of the mother and child become equal.

You have already proven you know little to nothing about human development, considering a page ago you said a zygote has a personality just because it possesses DNA.

<snip>

^ Human embryo is totally a person and not just a bunch of cells!

<snip>

^ Zygote comparison, indistinguishable from a chicken

<snip>

^ Which Zygote is human?

I don't think people care to understand things before they make baseless arguments.

So are you just deliberately being ignorant or do I have to spell it out for you?

ZYGOTE

You posted a bunch of pictures of embryos. Not zygotes. They are very different.

You can come back with another argument but I'm not going to give this one any more replies. You are arguing against a point I never made.

[GrinningMan]

I didn't say abortion shouldn't be allowed, I said it should never be the first choice. Unless it is a special circumstance.

Pretty much my opinion. Sadly, it's treated entirely too much as a 'first choice'. There are obviously several other choices that are less morally ambiguous and more... Responsible, I guess?

[Frogguh]

"A zygote at these stages is not a "human life". It isn't a person, like you or I."

Wrong. A zygote is a stage of human life, thus it is by every rational standard a human life. You bring your irrational ideology into it by attempting and failing to conflate human life with the legal concept of personhood.

"but so are unfertilized ova and sperm, and we certainly don't give those this treatment."

Wrong. A zygote is an existing human life. Sperm and ova have 23 chromosomes and are thus not human life.

"The same right is why you can't be forced to donate a kidney to save a life. Same argument, except there the target is indisputably a living human being whose life is forfeit unless you allow the use of your body in that way."

If my conscious decisions resulted in an innocent human life needing a kidney, it would indeed be just for them to get mine. An unborn human life does not deserve to die just because someone can't keep their pants zipped up.

If a pro-abortion person wants to ignore the fact that a zygote is a stage of human life, that's fine. But they shouldn't be so gutless as to deny that abortion ends an unborn human life. Own up to your abhorrent "morals" and quit hiding behind redefinitions.

[Stacyrect]

Yes. Your argument is asinine. This one point in the timeline defines when a child is theorised to be capable of thought and is therefore actively terminating a human life. Not a potential life, but an actual life. This is the point when the rights of the mother and child become equal.

You have already proven you know little to nothing about human development, considering a page ago you said a zygote has a personality just because it possesses DNA.



So are you just deliberately being ignorant or do I have to spell it out for you?

ZYGOTE

You posted a bunch of pictures of embryos. Not zygotes. They are very different.

You can come back with another argument but I'm not going to give this one any more replies. You are arguing against a point I never made.

Nope. Your argument is asinine, because personality is carried in DNA. Behavioral genetics is a thing. Not all of your personality is from environmental factors, but from dominant and poly genic genes. A zygote contains all the DNA you are and ever will be.

Do you think a puppy and a dog are 2 different things?

[GrinningMan]

"A zygote at these stages is not a "human life". It isn't a person, like you or I."

Wrong. A zygote is a stage of human life, thus it is by every rational standard a human life. You bring your irrational ideology into it by attempting and failing to conflate human life with the legal concept of personhood.

"but so are unfertilized ova and sperm, and we certainly don't give those this treatment."

Wrong. A zygote is an existing human life. Sperm and ova have 23 chromosomes and are thus not human life.

"The same right is why you can't be forced to donate a kidney to save a life. Same argument, except there the target is indisputably a living human being whose life is forfeit unless you allow the use of your body in that way."

If my conscious decisions resulted in an innocent human life needing a kidney, it would indeed be just for them to get mine. An unborn human life does not deserve to die just because someone can't keep their pants zipped up.

If a pro-abortion person wants to ignore the fact that a zygote is a stage of human life, that's fine. But they shouldn't be so gutless as to deny that abortion ends an unborn human life. Own up to your abhorrent "morals" and quit hiding behind redefinitions.

Biggus Dickus takes the field.

Enemy Commander is shaken.

[Deleted]

Nope. Your argument is asinine, because personality is carried in DNA. Behavioral genetics is a thing. Not all of your personality is from environmental factors, but from dominant and poly genic genes. A zygote contains all the DNA you are and ever will be.

Do you think a puppy and a dog are 2 different things?

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about so I'll just lay down a few things then leave you to the others.

Firstly, DNA is a blueprint. Your body is constructed from the information contained within your DNA. A zygote does not have a personality, it has the potential to one day possess one, when it is no longer a zygote.

Secondly, environmental factors impact your personality's development far more than your genetics.

Thirdly, I consider a puppy zygote to be different from an adult dog. I consider a human zygote to be different from a human adult. You can twist it how you will, but the simple fact is that the point at which a potential life form is conceived and the point at which they stop maturing many years after birth are completely different stages of development and should not be treated equally.

[oxymoronic]

I'm as pro-life as they come. I don't use religious beliefs at all in any of my political socio-beliefs. I believe in science which is what I use in something that shouldn't even be in a debate.

If I stick a human zygote on the planet Mars, and a group of scientist found said zygote on Mars, what would the scientist say they found on Mars....?

im not religious either and i think abortion is morally wrong and should not be taken lightly while still being an option. some people treat it as a simple procedure getting a simple cell removed but they know better once they have it done and they are alone with their thoughts.

if we met a super advanced alien race, do you (abortion supporters) think they would still practice abortion? yeah only an idiot would.

- - - Updated - - -

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about so I'll just lay down a few things then leave you to the others.

Firstly, DNA is a blueprint. Your body is constructed from the information contained within your DNA. A zygote does not have a personality, it has the potential to one day possess one, when it is no longer a zygote.

Secondly, environmental factors impact your personality's development far more than your genetics.

Thirdly, I consider a puppy zygote to be different from an adult dog. I consider a human zygote to be different from a human adult. You can twist it how you will, but the simple fact is that the point at which a potential life form is conceived and the point at which they stop maturing many years after birth are completely different stages of development and should not be treated equally.

then how come if you kill a woman that is pregnant you charged for the murder of the "zygote" no matter how far along she is.

[Deleted]

then how come if you kill a woman that is pregnant you charged for the murder of the "zygote" no matter how far along she is.

Because not all laws are in sync and many are very out of date. Same type of reason that men are typically charged harsher than women for certain sentences, or some people get off lighter with the same crime because of their background or where they committed the crime.

Sounds like a problem with the law, not with the women who decide that having a child is a bad decision.

- - - Updated - - -

Apparently you don't understand that a Zygote still contains all your DNA.

Never said it didn't. Simply stated DNA is a blueprint.

Your DNA has portions of your personality in it. Big difference from saying it does not contain any.

Never said it didn't contain any. Simply said environmental factors are more significant.

Wanna read my posts next time?

[Stacyrect]

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about so I'll just lay down a few things then leave you to the others.

Firstly, DNA is a blueprint. Your body is constructed from the information contained within your DNA. A zygote does not have a personality, it has the potential to one day possess one, when it is no longer a zygote.

Secondly, environmental factors impact your personality's development far more than your genetics.

Thirdly, I consider a puppy zygote to be different from an adult dog. I consider a human zygote to be different from a human adult. You can twist it how you will, but the simple fact is that the point at which a potential life form is conceived and the point at which they stop maturing many years after birth are completely different stages of development and should not be treated equally.

Apparently you don't understand that a Zygote still contains all your DNA. Your DNA is with you from Sperm/Egg till you pop that pussy. Please don't leave us anymore things from your edumacation.

Your DNA has portions of your personality in it. Big difference from saying it does not contain any. Behavioral genetics is a thing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_genetics

Plz don't kill any puppies

[Flutterguy]

What about people that are against abortion but not necessarily interested in outlawing it?

[Stacyrect]

Because not all laws are in sync and many are very out of date. Same type of reason that men are typically charged harsher than women for certain sentences, or some people get off lighter with the same crime because of their background or where they committed the crime.

Sounds like a problem with the law, not with the women who decide that having a child is a bad decision.

- - - Updated - - -



Never said it didn't. Simply stated DNA is a blueprint.



Never said it didn't contain any. Simply said environmental factors are more significant.

Wanna read my posts next time?

" A zygote does not have a personality "

They do, cauz DNA.

It's just at a level where it can't be expressed

[Deleted]

" A zygote does not have a personality "

They do, cauz DNA.

No they don't, because they are physically incapable of harbouring a personality.

They have the potential to one day develop a personality. You seem to be incapable of comprehending the difference between a blueprint and the finished product.

- - - Updated - - -

What about people that are against abortion but not necessarily interested in outlawing it?

Having a belief but not trying to force it on people whose lives are most affected by it?

That's called 'being sane' and it's not welcome here on the MMOC forums.

[araine]

I think it should be outlawed, not because I'm overly religious but because I think children are precious gifts, not burdens. And that pregnant women in distress are tricked into believing an abortion is in their best interests when in reality they'll regret it for the rest of their lives.

It's like convincing a starving man to swallow poison to sate his hunger. We need to protect women from falling for it.

And before someone calls me a sexist, there are countless women out there who agree. My wife included. As a matter of the fact she changed my mind on the issue.

The talibans share your view, really i dont want taliban laws

[Elim Garak]

Regardless of your opinion on abortion - if you tolerate abortion - you are not a bigot. If you do not tolerate abortion (want it banned for instance) - you are a bigot, regardless of your views on women.

[Powerogue]

I'm somewhere on the fence, which people rarely acknowledge, in that I both agree abortion should be legal, but disagree it should be societally accepted. You're killing a potential human being, and taking that as just "whatever" does seem like it'd devalue human life and family like the conservatives tend to claim. At the same time I'm definitely not someone who'd claim someone who was raped or is going to die from the childbirth should be denied that option.

I'm just in a pretty big minority in thinking when you get pregnant after consenting sex, that's your fault, exactly as much as the man's. So in the same way if he ran off on you he's shirking responsibility, you getting an abortion is similarly shirking responsibility for your actions.

[Stacyrect]

No they don't, because they are physically incapable of harbouring a personality.

They have the potential to one day develop a personality. You seem to be incapable of comprehending the difference between a blueprint and the finished product.

- - - Updated - - -



Having a belief but not trying to force it on people whose lives are most affected by it?

That's called 'being sane' and it's not welcome here on the MMOC forums.

They have a personality cauz DNA. If you really wanna get into the whole brain and nervous system shit, plants respond to both positively and negatively to human stimuli. What scientific, empirical, proof do you have that they do not?

[Elim Garak]

There's DNA in my sperm and my sperm has a potential to become a person, should I stop ejaculating outside a vagina?

[Deleted]

They have a personality cauz DNA. If you really wanna get into the whole brain and nervous system shit, plants respond to both positively and negatively to human stimuli. What scientific, empirical, proof do you have that they do not?

Plants are not only a completely different Kingdom to animals, but I never claimed plants do not respond to stimuli.

I don't know if you think DNA is some magical juice where your soul is stored or something but your personality is constructed from the specifications set in your DNA and shaped by your experiences growing up. The first stage after conception cannot have a personality because it has not yet developed the physical traits necessary to possess one.

It's clear you're out of arguments and are clutching at straws. Repeat your incorrect rhetoric to yourself as much as you like but it'll never be true. As there's nothing more of worth to be said, I'm out. Peace.