Have addons indirectly ruined the game ?

[Deleted]

Right, that's why so many of them have a playerbase as large as WoW... oh they don't and never did?

LMAO!!!!

This question has fukk all to do with popularity.

There are loads of MMOs with awesome boss encounters that are not Wow... only wow fanboys dont agree with that fact.

Look, WoW is in many cases the game every other MMORPG will be measured against, and therefore if you don't allow AddOns and UI customization isn't part of the default UI. You are objectively worse then WoW in that category.

To the question of the topic: Plenty of things have ruined the game for one or more groups of people, maybe AddOns habe for some. But as they have been around from the very first day I assume the group that was pissed off at addons never was really big.

The question is have addons ruined Wow... and the FACT that Wow subs have gone down backs up the answer... yes addons have contributed to ruining Wow.

You see what i did there?

Wows popularity/unpopularity has no reflection on how good or bad other MMOs are... and other MMOs popularity doesnt mean shit to how good or bad their policy on addons is.

[HappyCola]

using addons to bypass intended game design.

Addons are intended game design. Blizzard controls exactly what addons can and cannot do. They don't allow addons that bypass intended game design.

[Deleted]

LMAO!!!!

This question has fukk all to do with popularity.

There are loads of MMOs with awesome boss encounters that are not Wow... only wow fanboys dont agree with that fact.



The question is have addons ruined Wow... and the FACT that Wow subs have gone down backs up the answer... yes addons have contributed to ruining Wow.

You see what i did there?

Wows popularity/unpopularity has no reflection on how good or bad other MMOs are... and other MMOs popularity doesnt mean shit to how good or bad their policy on addons is.

Of course it has to do with popularity, if the encounter are so awesome, okay but what if the rest of the game is utter shit? One feature alone doesn't determine anything.

You didn't even answer the question right. The question sees AddOns as the sole reason, your own answer only give it partial responsibility.
And still, WoW with AddOns is more popular then most other MMORPGs, so maybe AddOns are the only thing saving WoW right now?

[Deleted]

The players that rely on add-ons the most are the ones at the top of the game who need that information to play the class optimally.

Nope i disagree; i am not a top player, i never have been and never will, i raided in MOP, and managed to even do some heroic bosses prenerf, Clicking most of my abilities, without a weak auras type of addon, etc, out of memory and always looking for a sweet spot so i could get the most out of the char.
During WOD i did not raid at all, but i knew from my experience after raiding, i needed keybindings, Weak Auras and Tidy plates.
So i get used to all those addons and the keybindings while leveling all my chars, and yeah looking back at for example the last phase of the thunder king, i played very poorly, in terms of how could i have handled it.
Also, i like to play whatever class i am playing,as optimally as i can, always, even if am just doing a leveling dungeon, it makes the game fun for me, and i can´t do that without addons.

[Deleted]

Of course it has to do with popularity, if the encounter are so awesome, okay but what if the rest of the game is utter shit? One feature alone doesn't determine anything.

You didn't even answer the question right. The question sees AddOns as the sole reason, your own answer only give it partial responsibility.
And still, WoW with AddOns is more popular then most other MMORPGs, so maybe AddOns are the only thing saving WoW right now?

Although the question on this thread is whether addons have indirectly ruined the game... which is all about this game. That has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on other games popularity.

The question doesnt speak about being the sole reason at all.. you invented that.

The question on this thread is asking if in your opinion that you think addons in Wow have contributed to ruining the game overall.

And that question is easy to answer YES.

[Deleted]

You actually just re-phased exactly what I said. We are literally agreeing on the same thing. Am I not explaining correctly? And I do agree with the last paragraph as well.

Sorry but i understood you were saying that because of addons existance, blizz increased the game complexity, while i think it is because the game got more complex that addons started to be mandatory.
Anyway i am happy we agree.

[Deleted]

Although the question on this thread is whether addons have indirectly ruined the game... which is all about this game. That has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on other games popularity.

The question doesnt speak about being the sole reason at all.. you invented that.

The question on this thread is asking if in your opinion that you think addons in Wow have contributed to ruining the game overall.

And that question is easy to answer YES.

My answer is NO, AddOns made the game far better.

No arguments needed, eh?

[HappyCola]

Therefore pretty much every addon makes the game easier.

I don't think anyone is arguing anything else. Take debuffs for example. Optimal play of many specs requires you to track which of your debuffs are active on your target. The only way to find out in the default GUI is to look at the list of tiny icons on the target frame on the top left of the screen. Back in the day you could not even see your debuffs in a raid because there were too many to display, and even today you need to hover over to see everything. That's why people use addons to pull the debuffs they need to track into the middle of the screen and hide other ones they do not care about. Of course it makes the game easier when you can see the information you need, rather than try to dig it out from the convoluted default UI. How exactly do you think that ruins the game?

[Deleted]

Of course it makes the game easier when you can see the information you need, rather than try to dig it out from the convoluted default UI. How exactly do you think that ruins the game?

I would not say easier, but fair, or even playable, if i am procing a debuff on a boss, and i can not track that debuff on the boss, so i can put it to good use, what is the point in that debuff to begin with?.
Same with buffs, what is the point then? i have a buff on myself that i have to use in my advantage, sometimes altering the rotation because of that buff, but there is no way i can track it, so what is the buff for then? for having more stylish spell descriptions?

[Chrno]

Addons and macro's have a very negative effect for sure.
I prefer a game without addons and macro's so everyone is on the same playing field.

That said, i use them allot if they are in the game. People can create amazing stuff, wich in it's turn is really cool and moves the game forward.

[Deleted]

My answer is NO, AddOns made the game far better.

No arguments needed, eh?

And i refer you to my previous point...

It matters because im answering the question on the thread... addons have indirectly ruined the game.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply doesnt understand the full impact that addons have had on Wow gamedesign.

[MattEffect]

Boss encounters can be made a lot more complex, interesting, and fun due to add-ons. Blizzard has stated as such, and have also said that every raid encounter is designed, tuned, and balanced with the assumption that DBM will be used. If not for DBM, encounters would be much more bland and simple.

You're right and we have been gifted a fun, challenging, and exciting Mythic mode. We've also been introduced to LFR, which has most certainly made encounters bland and simple.

You don't seem to understand that full impact of addons on the game design. They have enabled the game to be much better than it would be if we were stuck with the standard GUI. They can have more complex mechanics on bosses, they can have more interesting rotations, addon makers come up with innovations like quest helper, etc.

No one is debating that UI enhancements have a negative impact on the game(I hope). There are addons we can all agree are helpful and visually desired. How have addons influenced class rotations exactly? I'm pretty sure set bonuses have influenced rotations more than addons ever have or will.

You don't seem to understand that the impact addons have can be positive or negative.

[Gorgodeus]

And i refer you to my previous point...

And you are completely misinformed about the matter. Again, Blizzard has stated that they design encounters around add-ons, and that it allows them to make more complex, interesting, and more difficult encounters. If not for add-ons, we would have the same bland run of the mill encounters over and over.

[Deleted]

I don't think anyone is arguing anything else. Take debuffs for example. Optimal play of many specs requires you to track which of your debuffs are active on your target. The only way to find out in the default GUI is to look at the list of tiny icons on the target frame on the top left of the screen. Back in the day you could not even see your debuffs in a raid because there were too many to display, and even today you need to hover over to see everything.

So u completely backup my point *sigh*

According to your own example players used SKILL to monitor thier debuffs in the old days....

And u tell us that addons have improved the game?

What addons have done is made the game EASIER... if u think thats an improvement then thats fine. But u have to be honest with yourself that making the game easier isnt necessarily a good thing.

[HappyCola]

How have addons influenced class rotations exactly?

By making it actually possible to see buffs, debuffs and procs.

You don't seem to understand that the impact addons have can be positive or negative.

Which is why what addons can do is strictly limited. Addon that lets you build a bot to play the game for you would be negative, but they don't let you do that. Addons are limited to basically displaying and hiding information in the UI, and I don't see what negative impact that could have.

[Gorgodeus]

You're right and we have been gifted a fun, challenging, and exciting Mythic mode. We've also been introduced to LFR, which has most certainly made encounters bland and simple.



No one is debating that UI enhancements have a negative impact on the game(I hope). There are addons we can all agree are helpful and visually desired. How have addons influenced class rotations exactly? I'm pretty sure set bonuses have influenced rotations more than addons ever have or will.

You don't seem to understand that the impact addons have can be positive or negative.

What the hell does LFR have to do with anything? It is intended to be very easy.

As far as Mythic goes, the percentage of guilds clearing end game Mythics is no higher than any end game raids all the way back to Vanilla, with the exception of Naxx40. That was more due to the grind factor than the difficulty factor.

[MattEffect]

What about an example like Master Plan? For many of us it was a welcome addition to our UI and our garrison interaction. People have literally stated they cannot play alt garrisons without it. Realistically it played the mini game for us and people made tons of alt garrisons to farm gold, because of this addon. This addon generated gold for you at the touch of a button.

What future effects will this have on the game?
Do you think that developers are likely to spend large amounts of time developing a unique mini game for it to be automated by an addon?

When I started WoD I was obsessed with Followers. I can't explain why, I just was fond of collecting them and gearing them up. 2 months later I am spending 10 minutes "playing" the mini game, and my friend explains to me "Get masterplan to make that sh* easy mode." He was not as interested in the mini game as me and I literally was fuming that there was an addon to automate it. When HFC came out we got the exact same system in the form of boats, it was a huge slap in the face because I worked so hard on my followers. It could have been a more interesting mini game, it could have been something else entirely...but its safe to say, an addon would come out to automate it as well.

[Deleted]

Addons and macro's have a very negative effect for sure.
I prefer a game without addons and macro's so everyone is on the same playing field.

Everyone is on the same playing field, except if they limit theirselves by not using those addons and macros that are available for everyone, but the game is designed to be played with those addons.
We could however discuss why blizz themselves do not implement them in the default UI, or even the need of include something like "challenging content in wow is better done with addons" in the loading screen, but a throng of the youtube videos of raiding include link to addons.

[Astronom]

Blizzard has stated that they design encounters around add-ons

I imagine it would depend on the difficulty level. LFR for example they would presume no addons. Mythic they would presume several addons, particularly DBM or similar.

that it allows them to make more complex, interesting, and more difficult encounters

Yeah I can believe this. Addons wouldn't make Mythic mode easy, they merely make it reasonably achievable. And did someone mention Masterplan and garrisons? Masterplan just reduces the tedium of managing garrisons. Tedium is not equal to difficulty.

[HappyCola]

According to your own example players used SKILL to monitor thier debuffs in the old days....

No, there were addons in the "old days". What I'm saying is that the default UI is crap. I guess you can argue that digging out information from a broken UI takes "skill", but it certainly does not make the game better or more enjoyable.

And u tell us that addons have improved the game?

Yes. To a very great extent.

What addons have done is made the game EASIER... if u think thats an improvement then thats fine.

They have enabled players to focus on the actual game rather than dealing with the broken default UI. And yes I think that's a huge improvement.