Max Camera Distance Addon

[Rehok]

I agree with him just on the context that I never needed it, as a melee, and raid leader. However, I do support having the max camera just because it is for others preferred playstyle. I don't think others get an advantage, which is why I think Blizz's reason is pure BS. On the flip side, I think the concept of needing it is also BS. I see it as a preferred playstyle than an advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I do support the max camera being brought back but I do not support the "I need it" reason.

Ah, Agreed i dont need it i do use it and it does feel weird however i will get use to it, What they should have done before removing it is slowly decrease the cap so people eventually got back to original and people would be use to it or it would seem like a really small change

[Deleted]

Why is it a bad thing to see more though?

Nothing wrong with it. Blizz just don't want people to play with it, because that's not how they designed the fights. What's bad about it is when people lose their mind because they can't do it anymore.

[Jtbrig7390]

Nothing wrong with it. Blizz just don't want people to play with it, because that's not how they designed the fights. What's bad about it is when people lose their mind because they can't do it anymore.

Been in the game 12 years.....

If they really gave two shits about it they would have capped it years ago. No fight has ever been made with it in mind if you believe there BS about people not using it.

[Gorgodeus]

And what was their reasoning again? Cause all i found was the unfair advantage and the "we want players to see our artwork". Unless i missed some other reason plz enlight me.

Making things fair for everyone was but one reason. Most everyone here seems to want to ignore the other reason they stated, because they have no way of arguing against it. They do not like players zooming too far out because it makes encounters easier. Forcing players to actually have to move their toons and camera angle/direction makes things more challenging than simply zooming way out and seeing everything easily.

[Grapple]

Making things fair for everyone was but one reason. Most everyone here seems to want to ignore the other reason they stated, because they have no way of arguing against it. They do not like players zooming too far out because it makes encounters easier. Forcing players to actually have to move their toons and camera angle/direction makes things more challenging than simply zooming way out and seeing everything easily.

this is incorrect. they could have made things fair for everyone by just increasing the default zoom out to match the command. as for zooming out making encounters easier... DBM does infinity more to trivialize fights than zooming out possibly could. zooming out made it so melee isn't staring at a giants foot in some of the larger modeled fights.

[Jtbrig7390]

Making things fair for everyone was but one reason. Most everyone here seems to want to ignore the other reason they stated, because they have no way of arguing against it. They do not like players zooming too far out because it makes encounters easier. Forcing players to actually have to move their toons and camera angle/direction makes things more challenging than simply zooming way out and seeing everything easily.

Source please because I have never seen them state this.

edit: Also if they have to gimp the players playstyle to make fights harder then they got other problems to deal with.

[Squishy Tia]

I agree with him just on the context that I never needed it, as a melee, and raid leader. However, I do support having the max camera just because it is for others preferred playstyle. I don't think others get an advantage, which is why I think Blizz's reason is pure BS. On the flip side, I think the concept of needing it is also BS. I see it as a preferred playstyle than an advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I do support the max camera being brought back but I do not support the "I need it" reason.

Those of us with intracranial issues, such as Meniére's Disease and those with lingering symptoms from concussions definitely need our zoomed out level back. And as an added bonus, I not only have Meniére's Disease, but I have monovision as well, since I'm blind in my right eye, which greatly intensifies the nausea and vertigo caused by excessively close zoom. It's why I'm unable to really play Star Ocean 5 as well (which has a worse camera than WoW does currently, if you can imagine that).

[Freedom]

And part of their reasoning behind the change was people with motion sickness issues... Why does everyone have to accommodate less than 1% of the population? I have ASD, but I don't run around demanding guilds treat me super differently. I'll let them know sometimes in a roundabout way, but I'm not going to go to Blizzard and demand they put in a sarcasm detector for me. Or make every raid solo if I can't handle social dynamics (which I mostly can).

If you have certain bad luck in the dice roll fest that is life, you just can't do certain things. I have a bad sense of smell, so I think I can't become a professional food critic. If you have problems with vertigo etc, play zoomed in.

[Jtbrig7390]

And part of their reasoning behind the change was people with motion sickness issues... Why does everyone have to accommodate less than 1% of the population? I have ASD, but I don't run around demanding guilds treat me super differently. I'll let them know sometimes in a roundabout way, but I'm not going to go to Blizzard and demand they put in a sarcasm detector for me. Or make every raid solo if I can't handle social dynamics (which I mostly can).

If you have certain bad luck in the dice roll fest that is life, you just can't do certain things. I have a bad sense of smell, so I think I can't become a professional food critic. If you have problems with vertigo etc, play zoomed in.

Or there is always that other option....

Don't fuck with something that has been in the game for 11 years and has no negative effect on anyone. Everyone could use the command and everyone can now use the addon. If we are going to start removing things because X player doesn't use it then a lot of stuff is going to be removed from WoW.

The majority of players don't raid mythic so should we remove it since the gear gives them a unfair advantage over others. Should we remove addons for the same reason? Should we remove ultra graphic settings because people on a P4 computer can't run it.

There reason for removing it was a bullshit reason and they got called out for it and ignored it. So once again the community had to fix a problem they made.

[Gorgodeus]

this is incorrect. they could have made things fair for everyone by just increasing the default zoom out to match the command. as for zooming out making encounters easier... DBM does infinity more to trivialize fights than zooming out possibly could. zooming out made it so melee isn't staring at a giants foot in some of the larger modeled fights.

They did increase the max default zoom by about 30%. They do not want it any farther than that.

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Source please because I have never seen them state this.

edit: Also if they have to gimp the players playstyle to make fights harder then they got other problems to deal with.

We strongly believe that there needs to be parity in this area between players who are using the default UI and those who have addons or knowledge of hidden console variables. One option was certainly to just allow the in-game slider to go all the way up to the CVar hardcap. But that scale is beyond the one around which the game was designed at its core. The development team builds the world, its art, its combat mechanics, and other interactions, around the base UI experience and scale.
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...744692#post-18

[Jtbrig7390]

They did increase the max default zoom by about 30%. They do not want it any farther than that.

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We strongly believe that there needs to be parity in this area between players who are using the default UI and those who have addons or knowledge of hidden console variables. One option was certainly to just allow the in-game slider to go all the way up to the CVar hardcap. But that scale is beyond the one around which the game was designed at its core. The development team builds the world, its art, its combat mechanics, and other interactions, around the base UI experience and scale.
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...744692#post-18

That doesn't state in anyway shape or form that it makes fights easier. Also now its a addon and clearly they didn't remove the ability to do this because a addon can. They don't even explain how its unfair when the cam command is a know thing.

Once again 11 years its been in the game and only now its a problem? There reason makes zero sense. Its now a addon and everyone can use it, its on you if u don't.

[Varitok]

Making things fair for everyone was but one reason. Most everyone here seems to want to ignore the other reason they stated, because they have no way of arguing against it. They do not like players zooming too far out because it makes encounters easier. Forcing players to actually have to move their toons and camera angle/direction makes things more challenging than simply zooming way out and seeing everything easily.

The encounters have been fine for 12 years, so nice try.

Oh and your other reason, really? I have to fight the camera while fighting the mobs? Why not remove DBM or Weak auras then hmm? I mean they are giving an unfair advantage as to what buttons I will hit and when the boss is about to use abilities. Again, lets ruin something that 99% of people used for just themselves and the other 1% used for an "unfair advantage" (Which never was a thing)

[Deleted]

I've about had it with this thread at this point.

Kid gloves are off now. Next person who can't discuss the subject without resorting to name-calling and insults gets the hammer.

Seriously people.

[Gorgodeus]

That doesn't state in anyway it makes fights easier. Also now its a addon and clearly they didn't remove the ability to do this because a addon can.

Once again 11 years its been in the game and only now its a problem? There reason makes zero sense.

When they come out and specifically state that they design the world, its combat mechanics, and other interactions around the base UI in regards to camera zoom, common sense will tell you it makes fights easier than intended. One dev even said so in an interview on the matter.

They are removing the ability for add-ons to bypass it via hotfix, and they don't want any add-on to be able to bypass this design intent. Just because it has been around forever does not mean it stays forever. Devs should be encouraged to makes changes they deem needed to futher their designs and future developments. Not blasted and flamed over it.

I have no clue why you state "it makes no sense", when they very clearly have stated why they are making this change, and it does indeed make sense.

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The encounters have been fine for 12 years, so nice try.

Oh and your other reason, really? I have to fight the camera while fighting the mobs? Why not remove DBM or Weak auras then hmm? I mean they are giving an unfair advantage as to what buttons I will hit and when the boss is about to use abilities. Again, lets ruin something that 99% of people used for just themselves and the other 1% used for an "unfair advantage" (Which never was a thing)

Have we been playing the same exact game for 12 years? No. Games change. Games evolve. Get over it.

[Varitok]

That doesn't state in anyway shape or form that it makes fights easier. Also now its a addon and clearly they didn't remove the ability to do this because a addon can. They don't even explain how its unfair when the cam command is a know thing.

Once again 11 years its been in the game and only now its a problem? There reason makes zero sense. Its now a addon and everyone can use it, its on you if u don't.

Its blizzard, they are kings at just doing shit to piss people off in sake of the literally less than a percent of top raiders who would get an advantage. This company fucking confounds me with their stupid decisions.

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When they come out and specifically state that they design the world, its combat mechanics, and other interactions around the base UI in regards to camera zoom, common sense will tell you it makes fights easier than intended. One dev even said so in an interview on the matter.

They are removing the ability for add-ons to bypass it via hotfix, and they don't want any add-on to be able to bypass this design intent. Just because it has been around forever does not mean it stays forever. Devs should be encouraged to makes changes they deem needed to fut their designs and future developments. Not blasted and flamed over it.

I have no clue why you state "it makes no sense", when they very clearly have stated why they are making this change, and it does indeed make sense.

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Have we been playing the same exact game for 12 years? No. Games change. Games evolve. Get over it.

Nice arguement, Wanna try to rebuke what else I said? Or are you just gonna say something of no value and think you win the argument? I would not be surprised that some people are paid by blizz to post, its the only explanation for some of these responses.

[Deleted]

Those of us with intracranial issues, such as Meniére's Disease and those with lingering symptoms from concussions definitely need our zoomed out level back. And as an added bonus, I not only have Meniére's Disease, but I have monovision as well, since I'm blind in my right eye, which greatly intensifies the nausea and vertigo caused by excessively close zoom. It's why I'm unable to really play Star Ocean 5 as well (which has a worse camera than WoW does currently, if you can imagine that).

There is a difference between "illness" and just complaining because your preferred playstyle is gone. Saying your preferred playstyle is "needed" is just pure BS. In the events of an "illness", that is a something that majority complaining do not have. A small minority. Not exactly relevant in the grand scheme of the argument that is happening.

I put "illness" in brackets because I find it convinent that I have never seen it brought up in my history of gaming until now, and only limites to support this. Like I said, I want it back purely so others can have their preferred playstyle (I like to see my toon!) but hiding behind BS reasons is not the way to go. This is just regarding camera zoom as well.

[hulkgor]

just a quick note there were people banned for simple addon usage but that dates back deep into vanilla since there is no harm anymore in mentioning the name ill just do it

the addon was called "superman"

some of the features i remember it had
it let your character basicly fly (turn on and off gravity)
make your character invisible (like gm walk everywhere without drawing aggro or beeing seen)
make your character invincible (no damage taken from what ever source)
teleport your character (you could setup x y z coordinates and teleport to those places including save and load coordinate places
detatch your camera from your camera (actually this is still possible but wont go into details how this is acomplished without blizzard noticing)
in the past it was acomplished by exploiting the headnod variable "headboobing" frequency and amplitude which were accessable for clients so you went into ego mode and just let your had bounce a litte more then 2 cm more like 5 km or something and stopped it while you were in the air

you can imagine blizzards reaction to hits but in a sense you are very close with your statment since even blizzard employies are not aware of that things in the past http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/9499700809 here you can see clearly that even blizzard employies have no clue about the history

there was more stuff like that bulk creation of character exceed the character limit bulk setup of accounts multiple character online at the same time from one account it was needed to do stuff like that
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysid...w_spammer1.jpg
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...sadsadsure.jpg

so next time you know better there were bans for addon usage in the past with good reason

What the hell are you on about?

[Gorgodeus]

Its blizzard, they are kings at just doing shit to piss people off in sake of the literally less than a percent of top raiders who would get an advantage. This company fucking confounds me with their stupid decisions.

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Yes I have, and nice arguement, Wanna try to rebuke what else I said? Or are you just gonna say something of no value and think you win the arguement?

You have already been rebuked. The length of time it has been in-game is not relevant. The design intent going forward is. No one here can argue that being able to zoom out until your toon is a dot does not make things much easier. It is not that hard to see that allowing this to continue impededs on their designs going forward. Proof of this was the number of dungeons and raids you started seeing with narrow corridors, low ceiling etc., that they were forced to use to prevent encounters from being easier than they wanted.

[Varitok]

You have already been rebuked. The length of time it has been in-game is not relevant. The design intent going forward is. No one here can argue that being able to zoom out until your toon is a dot does not make things much easier. It is not that hard to see that allowing this to continue impededs on their designs going forward. Proof of this was the number of dungeons and raids you started seeing with narrow corridors, low ceiling etc., that they were forced to use to prevent encounters from being easier than they wanted.

You still didn't counter my arguements regarding DBM and Weakauras (Which off a way bigger advantage in game). Please stop talking about completely irrelevant things and rebuke me, because you clearly cant.

[Allyosaugh]

Have we been playing the same exact game for 12 years? No. Games change. Games evolve. Get over it.

here's the thing - the game changes, the game evolves, the game goes in many directions. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to complain about it. personally, i agree that the camera distance change was a very bad idea. i don't feel comfortable tanking mannoroth when i can't see around him. that is my opinion. if the majority of other tanks feel that they're fine with the camera changes and don't feel that they need the camera distance to be far enough to see around him, then i will have to suck it up and deal with it. that doesn't mean i'm going to stop complaining.

blizzard seemingly misunderstood, according to some people in this thread (myself included), just how many people disagree with the change. i don't think blizzard expected this much of an outcry at this change.

to use a different example, i personally hate the new models and avoid using them at all costs, but i understand that i'm in the minority. i am still going to complain about the new models to my friends, but i don't expect blizzard to do anything about it because it would take way too much development time and resources to satisfy me, a member of a relatively small minority.

the main point of argument here shouldn't be whether or not the people who disagree with you are stupid, the point of argument should be how many people think this change needs to be reverted. if the vast majority of the playerbase prefers the old camera distance, then blizzard should make the view distance slider go to the old distance. if the vast majority of the playerbase prefers the new camera distance, then blizzard should disable the ability to alter the max camera distance through addons to way beyond what you can normally achieve.