Max Camera Distance Addon

[Einsz]

Going by the logic of some people in this thread
- macros should be disabled because not everyone uses them and it creates unfair advantage
- there should be only 1 resolution of wow to be playable because higher resolution = unfair advantage
- mouses/keyboards with additional buttons should be "disabled" because it creates unfair advantage
- ppl using AHK scripts should be perma banned oh boy thats like 50% of hardcore raiding community going down the drain just like that
should i continue?

[Rizendragon]

Why the hell the camera distance is game breaking and thus the addon must be removed? Have you tried to raid lead from melee range with the new camera?

L2Cameraswivel. Seriously. Is it that hard? Even with the old camera distance I had a raid leader that would Resto Shammy instead of Rogue because he could see the raid easier.

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Going by the logic of some people in this thread
- macros should be disabled because not everyone uses them and it creates unfair advantage
- there should be only 1 resolution of wow to be playable because higher resolution = unfair advantage
- mouses/keyboards with additional buttons should be "disabled" because it creates unfair advantage
- ppl using AHK scripts should be perma banned oh boy thats like 50% of hardcore raiding community going down the drain just like that
should i continue?

That isn't at all the logic. The logic is that having that much camera distance is giving more information than what Blizzard wants us to have. We were getting to the point that rooms needed to be designed to a gigantic proportion to counter balance the view distance. Thok, Garrosh, Twin Shaman, Iron Juggernaught, etc. These rooms were made huge partly because of the camera distance and partly for the mechanics of the boss.

[Mahcake]

This is exactly what I and Blizzard are talking about. They want us moving our camera. They want us to work together more. Not having that camera distance would have made this encounter more difficult in that the pillar may have exploded and killed the raid. There is personal awareness and group awareness. They both factor into the skill cap of a raid group. What I would "rather do" really isn't relevant here.

Are you working for Blizzard that you know that? They never said they "want us to move our camera more" or "want us to work together more", the only thing we know is that it gave "unfair advantage". That's it. So stop with these silly arguments & BS.

These rooms were made huge partly because of the camera distance and partly for the mechanics of the boss.

Seriously? Did you even see those "rooms"? Only room that you could call "slightly bigger" was a Thok's room and that's because Thok was a huge dinosaur.

Your "logic" is completely ridicilous because all they had to do was to make the bosses smaller.

[Rezhial]

L2Cameraswivel. Seriously. Is it that hard? Even with the old camera distance I had a raid leader that would Resto Shammy instead of Rogue because he could see the raid easier.

It's not hard, it just shouldn't be necessary. We should be able to zoom out more. Period.

Tanking at current max distance is abysmal.

[Varitok]

They design encounters around DBM. DBM actually allows them to make more complex and difficult encounters to compensate for it. Weakauras fall into that same category. Neither DBM or Weakauras are hidden behind a console command. Being able to zoom out and see more of the area than they intend is not the same thing. Frankly, many of us are tired of low ceilings and shit being used to negate the camera CVAR.

So why not design fights around large camera distance and put it into the options? I mean as you say "it would lead to more complex and difficult encounters". I can use the same excuse. DBM and Weak Auras are on a site and take the same effort to enable, stop ruining my game with your awful logic.

[Rizendragon]

Are you working for Blizzard that you know that? They never said they "want us to move our camera more" or "want us to work together more", so stop with these silly arguments.

It's called deductive reasoning. Blizzard removes maxfactor 4. People complain and ask for an explanation. Blizzard says having everything on the screen is giving too much information and they want us to interact with the fights more. With this information we can deduce a few things -

1.) They'll either design the environments smaller

2.) Continue to make huge rooms and force us to move the camera around more to obtain the information we had previously.

[precious]

I know its a different thing. Im trying to pinpoint, that half of blizz decisions dont make any sense and they aim to get more new ppl into their game, while failing horribly. And like i said in another thread, down the line all of this wont matter if they keep the camera or not.

A big number of guilds already has shifted to the no melee roster. All i see is guilds that refuse to have more than 4-5 melee in their rosters, and melee players fleeing left and right to range classes. Im not saying its the camera thats the blame. Its also the recent changes to some melee classes like rets or rogues that made easy the decision of some players to switch classes. Very few of melee go again melee especially when the choices are fewer than before.

And then blizzard will wonder why the hell the first 500 guilds that cleared the x raid, out of the 7000 dps only 500 was melee and 90% the same class, and zero participation from some others. Look at BH for example. 9% melee participation and 80% of them a specific class.

The problem is when they do a change, they dont take account the other problems that will rise. Im not talking aboy complains, im talking about gameplay.

If u play a rogue while u DFA or dh while u FEL RUSH u will understand how broken their new cvar options are. Just my 2 cents.

[Rizendragon]

It's not hard, it just shouldn't be necessary. We should be able to zoom out more. Period.

Tanking at current max distance is abysmal.

Again. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean it isn't good for the game to have the maxfactor 4 changed to maxfactor 3.4 or whatever they changed it to. We're at about 2/3's the old max camera distance. It isn't game breaking the way some would imply.

[Varitok]

DBM and WA are timers and bars. They can point to where the bad is coming from or where the guy with bad shit x, y, z debuff that 1hkos you if you're within 7 yds of him, but they don't move your character or turn/zoom out your camera for you if they aren't within your view. People don't want to admit that visual information is more valuable than a bar or a timer because they don't realize how much they absorb, process, and react to what they see within a fraction of a second without having to move their eyes to a bar, read, it, and then react.

I'm one of the few that have accepted Blizzard's response and agree with them. I play a melee. I raid mythics. I get it that having the max viewdistance helps with not seeing the bad's junk, but having a gigantic view distance basically makes you a controllable RTS unit. I keep going back to the room where the Garrosh encounter occurred. Seeing that entire room that was basically 300yds across in one camera view from the center of the room trivialized the stars. I think it's this kind of thing they want to temper. They want you moving your camera. That is part of the skill cap of the game. Looking around you, staying out of the shit, and still executing your priority well while staying vigilant.

Okay, so you'll use the same old "Like an rts unit" logic when that is a terrible arguement. So you're telling me being able to know when, where and how the boss is going to use an ability and in what order and the exact times is less of an advantage than being able to see a room? Or how to play my fucking class with weak auras just telling me what button to hit? Get real. that is fucking ridiculous. To the point of Garrosh, A countdown time going "Stars active in 3 2 1" trivializes it way more than the camera distance. Also, without proof I dont believe you raid Mythic one bit. Seems like you just wanna seem like you do the hardest stuff to seem credible.

Also, You're the type of person ruining the game for thousands of people who prefer it OUTSIDE the raids. I am utterly sick of the fanboys who are ruining the game because they just feel the need to agree with blizzard even if it makes the game worse for everyone else.

[Gorgodeus]

I agree. So much useful information like energy regen or AP or AS. I mean for the love of god, why a rogue would need to see his energy regen so he knows when to stop going for haste. But on the other hand they kept armor cause knowing as a dps how much physical reduction i have, is vital. Its all about the tanking melees.

But they oversimplified stats cause they are expecting the hordes of million new players, and they dont want them to get lost in an ocean of random numbers.

Sarcasm over

The rogue can simply look. Duh. It shows both his haste rating and haste percentage. If the rogue is capable of min/maxing, he will know what rating he needs. With the removal of SP and AP on items, it is no longer needed to be shown on the char panel. You will be looking at your Primary stat instead.

[Rizendragon]

A big number of guilds already has shifted to the no melee roster. All i see is guilds that refuse to have more than 4-5 melee in their rosters, and melee players fleeing left and right to range classes. Im not saying its the camera thats the blame. Its also the recent changes to some melee classes like rets or rogues that made easy the decision of some players to switch classes. Very few of melee go again melee especially when the choices are fewer than before.

Can I ask how long you've been playing for? This shit has been going on for fucking years. YEARS. I have not seen a 25 man raid take more than 5-7 melee (including tanks) since before ICC. Deathbringer Saurfang is a prime example of a ranged favored fight that was designed 8 years ago...

[Varitok]

Again. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean it isn't good for the game to have the maxfactor 4 changed to maxfactor 3.4 or whatever they changed it to. We're at about 2/3's the old max camera distance. It isn't game breaking the way some would imply.

It is absolutely game breaking, you claim you're a Melee dps doing "Mythic". You aren't leading the raid, you aren't tanking the raid, so you are the least important opinion on this matter to be honest (im a melee dps too).

[Mahcake]

I'll just leave this here.

http://imgur.com/a/dcJhQ

[Rizendragon]

Okay, so you'll use the same old "Like an rts unit" logic when that is a terrible arguement. So you're telling me being able to know when, where and how the boss is going to use an ability and in what order and the exact times is less of an advantage than being able to see a room? Or how to play my fucking class with weak auras just telling me what button to hit? Get real. that is fucking ridiculous. To the point of Garrosh, A countdown time going "Stars active in 3 2 1" trivializes it way more than the camera distance. Also, without proof I dont believe you raid Mythic one bit. Seems like you just wanna seem like you do the hardest stuff to seem credible.

Also, You're the type of person ruining the game for thousands of people who prefer it OUTSIDE the raids. I am utterly sick of the fanboys who are ruining the game because they just feel the need to agree with blizzard even if it makes the game worse for everyone else.

Believe it or not there are thousands of players that have WA and DBM that still fail at executing their rotation and fail at moving out of the fire. You can have all the add-ons in the world and still suck if you tunnel like crazy. I guess you're right though. I haven't technically raided Mythics. I raided Heroics before they changed the raid structure.

If you don't raid why do you need Maxfactor 4?

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It is absolutely game breaking, you claim you're a Melee dps doing "Mythic". You aren't leading the raid, you aren't tanking the raid, so you are the least important opinion on this matter to be honest (im a melee dps too).

How is it game breaking? Give me examples that aren't simply personal preference. I could also argue that raid leader's and tank's opinions don't matter all that much because they aren't the ones designing the encounters.

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I'll just leave this here.

http://imgur.com/a/dcJhQ

Terrible example is terrible.

[Mahcake]

Believe it or not there are thousands of players that have WA and DBM that still fail at executing their rotation and fail at moving out of the fire. You can have all the add-ons in the world and still suck if you tunnel like crazy. I guess you're right though. I haven't technically raided Mythics. I raided Heroics before they changed the raid structure.

If you don't raid why do you need Maxfactor 4?

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How is it game breaking? Give me examples that aren't simply personal preference. I could also argue that raid leader's and tank's opinions don't matter all that much because they aren't the ones designing the encounters.

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Terrible example is terrible.

For a lot of us its not *I just simply disagree*, its a matter of being able to play a game without getting sick, eyestrain's and headaches/migraines from being forced to play zoomed in. It does play a factor to the ones that are effected with this dumb cam change. Try reading this instead of dissing us https://developer.oculus.com/documen...ator_sickness/

Terrible example is terrible.

It clearly isn't. If you can't see the difference & look at it in a different perspective, you're just a blinded fanboy/troll at this point. Nothing more.

[precious]

The rogue can simply look. Duh. It shows both his haste rating and haste percentage. If the rogue is capable of min/maxing, he will know what rating he needs. With the removal of SP and AP on items, it is no longer needed to be shown on the char panel. You will be looking at your Primary stat instead.

It says increases attack speed and energy regeneration. There is no mention of how much the actual number is. And sure lets look the primary stat. Why then the rest of secondaries are there? Since main stat is 1EP and there rest follow with 0.6EP and less to all classes atm there is no need to see them cause whatever has higher ilvl and main stat will be the winner.

All this sound very easy if u are just a raider that goes to the x site or uses the x simulation sheet. But for ppl like me and other that we write those codes and maintain the APL for the rest of the world to be able to use AMR/ICY VEINS/SHADOWCRAFT etc plz dont tell me its not important.

Plz step into AMR or WCL discord and ill show u the work its been done there months now while we fight with secret stats.

Anyway rant out, this is not about random addons, this is about camera issue.

[Gorgodeus]

It says increases attack speed and energy regeneration. There is no mention of how much the actual number is. And sure lets look the primary stat. Why then the rest of secondaries are there? Since main stat is 1EP and there rest follow with 0.6EP and less to all classes atm there is no need to see them cause whatever has higher ilvl and main stat will be the winner.

All this sound very easy if u are just a raider that goes to the x site or uses the x simulation sheet. But for ppl like me and other that we write those codes and maintain the APL for the rest of the world to be able to use AMR/ICY VEINS/SHADOWCRAFT etc plz dont tell me its not important.

Plz step into AMR or WCL discord and ill show u the work its been done there months now while we fight with secret stats.

Anyway rant out, this is not about random addons, this is about camera issue.

You might want to look closer. It shows the % plain as day. And if you hover over it, it shows the rating.

[Varitok]

Believe it or not there are thousands of players that have WA and DBM that still fail at executing their rotation and fail at moving out of the fire. You can have all the add-ons in the world and still suck if you tunnel like crazy. I guess you're right though. I haven't technically raided Mythics. I raided Heroics before they changed the raid structure.

If you don't raid why do you need Maxfactor 4?

Because its the way I like to play, experience the world and enjoy my playtime. I like to see the world around me while im doing quests and outdoor content. So you haven't raided this expac on mythic? You shouldn't claim you are a mythic raider then. Also I can counter argue with "There are thousands of people who use the max camera distance and still fail at raids even with it!" See its really that easy to point out the BS anti cam distance players spout. It goes both ways.

Never said I didn't raid but it less important to me in raids than in outdoor world but that doesn't mean people in raids who prefer it should get shafted.

I have to ask one question. Why ruin the game for what is a vast amount of people who want this in? Its completely selfish and stupid.

[FelPlague]

If it shows them how serious we are about wanting the maxdistance back, then yes. I do want them to break the entire Addon API every time one of these pops up. Max distance is more important to me as a raid leader than literally any other addon, considering boss abilities and timers can be largely memorized.

yes because omfg downloading a addon is such a motivating movement, showing how dedicated we are!

[Allyosaugh]

When it comes to raid design. this is that part of the argument that doesn't matter. It literally becomes "adapt or change" at this point. Blizzard has said as much about certain things previously. You can move your camera to see around the big bad which is what Blizzard wants us to do. I'm sure you can see between his legs or around his hip if you swivel the camera around.

what i'm trying to say is you can't see the raid behind him if you swivel the camera around, and during the last phase you can't see where all the gazes are on the map. it makes a difference in his difficulty for sure.