is all specs viable in Mythic+ ?

[frychikn]

Even tho ucandosht might seem like a jerk the guy is actually right in what his saying. I've played beta and been following ele forums during these months and there is really 0% focus on ele from blizzard
The spec lacks a lot more than others and if you care about being competitive you should not be playing elemental
And it hurts me to say this because I really wanted to play the spec in legion



Also this

but every single forum i go to acts the exact same way. why the fuck is everybody going to play legion if supposed every single class is just bad?

[Noxinator]

#102 You are so right. I have been frequenting every class forum for around two months now trying to figure out what I wanted to play, and everyone and their mother is just whining and critizising pretty much everything about their class.
Every classforum is adamant that Legion calls for a reroll because their beloved class now is terrible and pretty much lost.

[Deleted]

#102 You are so right. I have been frequenting every class forum for around two months now trying to figure out what I wanted to play, and everyone and their mother is just whining and critizising pretty much everything about their class.
Every classforum is adamant that Legion calls for a reroll because their beloved class now is terrible and pretty much lost.

but every single forum i go to acts the exact same way. why the fuck is everybody going to play legion if supposed every single class is just bad?

Yes, but other classes don't have dev team apologists.

Every other class stands together and works towards getting fixes or changes. As Shaman you not only have to fight bad design and a terrible reputation - - no, people from your own class will pretend that everything is fine.

I remember the 10 or whatever people on this forum alone who constantly posted how great Elemental is during WoD beta. Guess where those people are now? I dont know also. Never seen one of them again, haha.

[miffy23]

Yes, but other classes don't have dev team apologists.

Every other class stands together and works towards getting fixes or changes. As Shaman you not only have to fight bad design and a terrible reputation - - no, people from your own class will pretend that everything is fine.

I remember the 10 or whatever people on this forum alone who constantly posted how great Elemental is during WoD beta. Guess where those people are now? I dont know also. Never seen one of them again, haha.

The fact that you think a few people on forums liking the spec are the reason for issues with it in progress is just fantasically entertaining.

[Deleted]

The fact that you think a few people on forums liking the spec are the reason for issues with it in progress is just fantasically entertaining.

It were people like you, not people who liked the spec per se. They were idiotic, annoying and stupid dev team apologists. They never added anything to the WoD design process other than saying this spec being fine.

Sounds quite fimiliar, right?

[Noxinator]

I find it extremely unlikely that Blizzards class developers looks at 10 peoples opinions on MMO-Champion and then says "Well it seems the Elemental Shaman is all dandy".
C'mon, they look at all the feedback and takes that into consideration when making decisions. And all the other class forums on this site has people of different opinions - that is how the world works.

[miffy23]

It were people like you, not people who liked the spec per se. They were idiotic, annoying and stupid dev team apologists. They never added anything to the WoD design process other than saying this spec being fine.

Sounds quite fimiliar, right?

There are 10.000 counter examples that flat out disprove your assumption that discordant class feedback or "defenders of bad design" have any impact at all on development. You're simply baiting, as usual.

[Deleted]

There are 10.000 counter examples that flat out disprove your assumption that discordant class feedback or "defenders of bad design" have any impact at all on development. You're simply baiting, as usual.

Now I've the proof that something really went bad in your childhood, dude. I didnt even say once that dev team apologists have an impact on real design decisions, but good that you mentioned it now. You can start naming your counter examples now, but we already have solid proof of players impacting class design in enought cases. Positively or negatively.

It's not even about numbers, more about mechanics. If enought people voice their opinion, feedback will be considered. Hence you get whole class reworks, even several ones for the same class. Or do you think this happens for fun?

It's not a secret that a lot of high profile Shaman left due to no changes and the class being not viable for end game progression or PvP. But you dont understand class design that's why there's no point in wasting more time with you.

[Darleth]

I find it extremely unlikely that Blizzards class developers looks at 10 peoples opinions on MMO-Champion and then says "Well it seems the Elemental Shaman is all dandy".
C'mon, they look at all the feedback and takes that into consideration when making decisions. And all the other class forums on this site has people of different opinions - that is how the world works.

They're more looking into their own forums instead of fansites for feedback. The problem is: not EVERYONE surfs in either one of those. Me for example, I'm never in the official forums; i'm sticking to MMO-C forums most of the time, because I had actually better discussions here than in the official ones in my past.
In regards to Elemental Shamans though... they've been really ignoring them for most of the beta. I remember a LOT of nerfs happening right before the pre-patch hit, that were completely unjustified for ele, while enhancement went unchanged for a really long time (and even then they somewhat nerfbatted the shit out of us right before the pre-patch hit).

I'm pretty sure that they'll buff ele shamans again, like they always have to nowadays... it's frustrating for any elemental shaman main to just be completely trash tier for higher raids (and mythic+ in that regard), just to get buffed weeks or even months later into the expac, because blizzard thought they were "probably" "secretly overpowered".

[miffy23]

Now I've the proof that something really went bad in your childhood, dude. I didnt even say once that dev team apologists have an impact on real design decisions, but good that you mentioned it now. You can start naming your counter examples now, but we already have solid proof of players impacting class design in enought cases. Positively or negatively.

It's not even about numbers, more about mechanics. If enought people voice their opinion, feedback will be considered. Hence you get whole class reworks, even several ones for the same class. Or do you think this happens for fun?

It's not a secret that a lot of high profile Shaman left due to no changes and the class being not viable for end game progression or PvP. But you dont understand class design that's why there's no point in wasting more time with you.

Scroll up 20 cm and re-read your previous 3-4 posts in this thread.

Your assumption is wrong in more than one way. If not enough people are bitching about mechanics, maybe that means enough people are enjoying the spec. And ofc the biggest giveaway - every other class forum, here and elsewhere, has "apologists" and critics of current spec iterations. It has little to no impact on what happens with the spec. Major uproars affect it sure, like ...actually I can't remember the last time a spec got mechanically changed because of feedback. Adjustments for new iterations to make them work, sure. But fundamental mechanical changes because of a vocal minority bitching? Er. You'll have to dig that one out.

How about a drinking game: take a shot everytime UcanDoSht throws personal attacks into his comments instead of arguments.
You're right, there is no point. In case you hadn't noticed, the Elemental-related threads are nearly empty except for you, Deleth and a few others. The theorycrafters are mostly elsewhere now, so are most of the more pleasant players. And with good reason. Probably part of the reason why you feel that all the good players left the spec - they're not here to serve as your audience anymore.

[Deleted]

You just admitted to not even play Elemental. I think this case is closed.

[miffy23]

You just admitted to not even play Elemental. I think this case is closed.

I have played Elemental as my active Offspec for more than half a decade, on progress raid level. You "think" very little.

[Deleted]

I have played Elemental as my active Offspec for more than half a decade, on progress raid level. You "think" very little.

Oh yeah. I forgot that you actually invented the modern definition of bullshit.

[rogas]

Never understood why blizz constantly keeps elem weak? Can't believe they can't make us competitive. It's like they deliberately tune elem to be an average raiding spec. Don't get it.

I'm not making this up. Elem has been average the last 4 expacs. Especially at the start of those.

[dexx]

I find it extremely unlikely that Blizzards class developers looks at 10 peoples opinions on MMO-Champion and then says "Well it seems the Elemental Shaman is all dandy".

More correctly, they look at posts in the beta class forums and then say "Nah, we know better. We'll do it our way".

[Gsara]

From just my bit of experience doing the mythic+ dungeons on beat, there will be a few specs that wont be taken at higher key levels. Off the top of my head, dot specs and weak aoe wont be going to much over lvl 10-12 mythic+. Some things could change as Legion goes on but I dont think it will change much.

[chairmanmao]

Wouldn't you expect Ele's aoe viability to increase as mob hp goes up, letting you drop more EQ and proc more static overloads?

[Lucrece]

Wouldn't you expect Ele's aoe viability to increase as mob hp goes up, letting you drop more EQ and proc more static overloads?

Ele will be a desirable caster for the simple fact you bring heroism (mage being the alternative), an aoe ranged stun, purge, fairly strong sustained aoe against larger HP mob packs, your aoe applies knockdowns which helps tanks immensely, and you also bring stampeding roar via windrush totem.

Ele is also the caster with the shortest interrupt, even shorter than the interrupt cd's of most melee.

[Vorpalspork]

Ele will be a desirable caster for the simple fact you bring heroism (mage being the alternative), an aoe ranged stun, purge, fairly strong sustained aoe against larger HP mob packs, your aoe applies knockdowns which helps tanks immensely, and you also bring stampeding roar via windrush totem.

Ele is also the caster with the shortest interrupt, even shorter than the interrupt cd's of most melee.

Yes, but as things stand, people will bring a fire mage for the good AoE and ST damage, as well as Time Warp. From looking around Beta, there are no shortage of fire mages! I doubt a short interrupt will be enough to get shaman a spot ahead of a mage, or almost any other caster, really.

As for EQ becoming viable AoE when mob health increases, I guess the jury is out on that. EQ damage isn't that great, and there will always be a large ramp up, especially to drop multiple EQs, so I'm really not sure if mob health will ever be high enough to allow us to equal out with more bursty AoE specs. I'd much rather Blizz just drop this failed builder/spender model for AoE damage and make it more fun and competitive with classes that don't have to ramp up. I don't think "class fantasy" should be horrible AoE ramp up.

[Taeron]

Yes, but as things stand, people will bring a fire mage for the good AoE and ST damage, as well as Time Warp. From looking around Beta, there are no shortage of fire mages! I doubt a short interrupt will be enough to get shaman a spot ahead of a mage, or almost any other caster, really.

As for EQ becoming viable AoE when mob health increases, I guess the jury is out on that. EQ damage isn't that great, and there will always be a large ramp up, especially to drop multiple EQs, so I'm really not sure if mob health will ever be high enough to allow us to equal out with more bursty AoE specs. I'd much rather Blizz just drop this failed builder/spender model for AoE damage and make it more fun and competitive with classes that don't have to ramp up. I don't think "class fantasy" should be horrible AoE ramp up.

As the previous poster said, regardless if heroism=timewarp and purge=spellsteal, Ele shams still have an AOE stun, AOE knockdowns, AOE movement speed increase and much shorter interrupt CD over the mage. I've watched Mythic+11 dungeons and the trash is by far the most difficult parts of the run, this kind of utility could mean a win over a wipe.

I've run dungeons as Ele and the ramp up isnt as bad as people are saying. I regularly stack up 3-4x EQ totems without much rampup and often top AOE fights (unless there's a WW monk or DH in the party).

You think ele rampup is bad? Try a Boomy in dungeons. feelsbadman.
Ele feels great unless mobs die in less than 10 sec which wont be the case for any content that matters.