Could a monk use chi in Mok'gora?

[Aquamonkey]

Where in my Post did I say Cairne was dictating the rules? Cairne challenged garrosh, and thus, garrosh was the one who dictated the rules.

That's how Mak'gora works. Its the same way as duels of honor worked in real life, the one being challenged was the one who could pick both the weapon, and the time and place of the duel. The one issuing the challenge then had to choose to either obey those rules, or back down from the challenge, besmirching his own honor and passing as a coward.

No. Mak'gora has set rules. People don't make it up on the fly. Picking location and weapons is not dictating rules.

[Derah]

No. Mak'gora has set rules. People don't make it up on the fly. Picking location and weapons is not dictating rules.

[Citation is needed]

So many people loooooooooooove to say that the use of magic is forbidden in mak'gora, but when it comes to actually provide a source on that, they all flunk out.

Are you gonna flunk out too?

[Aquamonkey]

[Citation is needed]

So many people loooooooooooove to say that the use of magic is forbidden in mak'gora, but when it comes to actually provide a source on that, they all flunk out.

Are you gonna flunk out too?

Rules are described in The Shattering, Bloodsworn, and Blood and Thunder. Rules say nothing about magic.

So many people looooooooove to say rules are made up on the spot. You flunked out.

[Deleted]

If a mage or warlock is challenged, most likely the duel will allow their own spell casting, and then a warrior/rogue could use their weapons, or DK his/her necromantic magic, or monk his/her chi. It's always up to the set rules. No warrior would take honor of winning a mage without the mage using spells. It would be a non-weapon fight and no chi, or a weapon and chi/own resource.

[Derah]

Rules are described in The Shattering, Bloodsworn, and Blood and Thunder. Rules say nothing about magic.

Because the rules say nothing about magic, it stands to reason that their use is neither forbidden, nor frowned upon.

So many people looooooooove to say rules are made up on the spot. You flunked out.

Not really. I provided an example where the one being challenged dictated the terms of the duel. You're the one who is labeling that as "making the rules on the spot".

I simply said that the challenged decides what's forbidden and what isn't. No more, no less. Mak'gora doesn't have all that many rules. Even the wowpedia article only says that each participant must have at least 1 witness, if both refuse to fight they are banished from their clans, each is allowed only one weapon, shaman blessings are allowed but not mandatory, and that thrall made the duel non-lethal though if both participants agreed, this last rule could be overlooked.

[Tome]

Rules are described in The Shattering, Bloodsworn, and Blood and Thunder. Rules say nothing about magic.

So many people looooooooove to say rules are made up on the spot. You flunked out.

No, nothing states that are the set rules. Those are the combatants own rules, and even when Thrall became Warchief he changed the "rules."

We even see Thrall duel Garrosh in a Mak'gora BEFORE the release of Wrath of the Lich King in Orgrimmar arena. Yes, it was Mak'gora, they both were fully armoured, and Thrall was using the elements, this was even shown in-game. The fight was interrupt because of the Lich King pre-event, attacking Orgrimmar.

So no, there are no set rules of Mak'gora anymore. The combatants decide the rules.

- and before you go "but the elements abandoned Thrall because he cheated in Mak'gora!"

No, the elements doesn't care about Mak'gora. The elements doesn't care about mortal matters. They abandon Thrall because he used their powers forcefully to kill Garrosh, without asking for their aid. If Thrall would have asked for their powers instead of taking it, they very well might have declined him.

[Aquamonkey]

Not really. I provided an example where the one being challenged dictated the terms of the duel. You're the one who is labeling that as "making the rules on the spot".

Because you said the challenged "set the rules". Picking weapon and location is not setting the rules. The rules are already set by the fact that it is a mak'gora.

The only rule in Mak'gora, is that the one being challenged sets the rules, and the one issuing the challenge has to obey them.

If I challenge you, then you can dictate what weapons are allowed, what weapons are forbidden, what armor both of us get to wear, etc. And I have to obey, and abide by those rules. If I challenge you, and you don't specify any of the above, then that's an unspoken agreement that there are no rules, and anything goes.

When Cairne challenged Garrosh, it was garrosh who said they'd fight with no armor, and only one weapon, it was also garrosh who said the duel would be to the death.

Garrosh said nothing like this, he just wanted a traditional duel to the death. Cairne was educating Garrosh as to what a mak'gora actually meant.

[Derah]

No, the elements doesn't care about Mak'gora. The elements doesn't care about mortal matters. They abandon Thrall because he used their powers forcefully to kill Garrosh, without asking for their aid. If Thrall would have asked for their powers instead of taking it, they very well might have declined him.

Actually no. The elements haven't abandoned Thrall. In the scenario where enhancement Shamans go after the doomhammer, Thrall is shooting lightning left and right, hewing molten lava, and conjuring giant thunder storms. In the Broken Shore, he's also raising bridges made of stone, and making full use of his shamanistic powers.

Thrall is not de-powered, he simply feels weakened, he can't call to the elements as easily as he could before, and he doesn't know why. All he knows is that its been harder for him to call upon their aid since his duel with garrosh. But that could just as easily be chalked up to him self-handicapping himself due to guilt, or PTSD. It was shown that emotional turmoil dampens your capacity to harness the power of the elements, and its entirely possible THIS is the real reason Thrall feels weakened.

But the elements in no way have "abandoned" Thrall, otherwise he'd be completely unable to use magic whatsoever, and yet he does, at several points in Legion.

[Aquamonkey]

No, nothing states that are the set rules. Those are the combatants own rules, and even when Thrall became Warchief he changed the "rules."

So no, there are no set rules of Mak'gora anymore. The combatants decide the rules.

The rules for mak'gora are spelled out in The Shattering and Bloodsworn. These are not "oh I want the duel to be this way." They are THE rules of mak'gora.

“I am in charge of the Horde now, and I say I will accept your challenge of the mak’gora—the old mak’gora. The way it once was, with all the old rules. All of them.”
[...]
“You know what you need, of course.”
Garrosh hesitated.
“What weapon? What garb to wear? How many witnesses?” asked Cairne.
When Garrosh, his cheeks darkening in embarrassment, shook his head, Cairne snorted. “You call for a traditional fight, yet I, a tauren, understand your orcish traditions better than you!”
--The Shattering

"The rules of the mak'gora are simple. Only one weapon is allowed, and body armor is forbidden. As is custom, this duel is... the mak'gora is to the death!"
--Bloodsworn

[Tome]

The rules for mak'gora are spelled out in The Shattering and Bloodsworn. These are not "oh I want the duel to be this way." They are THE rules of mak'gora.

“I am in charge of the Horde now, and I say I will accept your challenge of the mak’gora—the old mak’gora. The way it once was, with all the old rules. All of them.”
[...]
“You know what you need, of course.”
Garrosh hesitated.
“What weapon? What garb to wear? How many witnesses?” asked Cairne.
When Garrosh, his cheeks darkening in embarrassment, shook his head, Cairne snorted. “You call for a traditional fight, yet I, a tauren, understand your orcish traditions better than you!”
--The Shattering

"The rules of the mak'gora are simple. Only one weapon is allowed, and body armor is forbidden. As is custom, this duel is... the mak'gora is to the death!"
--Bloodsworn

There you have it.

Cairne decided the rules, he wanted to fight the old Mak'gora. Nowhere is that the only Mak'gora rule.

So I don't see what the problem is. Thrall and Garrosh fight a completely different Mak'gora.

[Aquamonkey]

There you have it.

Cairne decided the rules, he wanted to fight the old Mak'gora. Nowhere is that the only Mak'gora rule.

So I don't see what the problem is. Thrall and Garrosh fight a completely different Mak'gora.

No... Garrosh decided he wanted the old mak'gora. Cairne merely described what that meant because Garrosh didn't know. Nobody decided the rules, they went with the rules already established for mak'gora.

[steelballfc]

No... Garrosh decided he wanted the old mak'gora. Cairne merely described what that meant because Garrosh didn't know. Nobody decided the rules, they went with the rules already established for mak'gora.

yes it's the "basic" Duel Mak'gora, but if there was a spell-caster he could use his magic as "weapon", I believe the same acquire for Hunter's.

[Felixon]

As described in The Shattering, Bloodsworn and Blood and Thunder the rules for Mak'gora are:
Each participant is allowed one weapon. A blessing of this weapon by a shaman of their choosing is permitted, but not required.
Body armor is forbidden.
Each participant must have at least one witness.
If both participants refuse to fight one another, they are banished from the clan.[6]
Traditionally, it is to the death, but under Warchief Thrall's rule it became a non-lethal combat, similiar to Warsong's Mak'Rogahn. Participants can choose to forgo this change.[1] However, even when operating under the old rules, the victor can choose to spare the loser's life,[5] though it's considered a grave insult.[7]

Source: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora

[Techno-Druid]

Let me just reiterate that chi is not magic and harnessing it does not require any magic.

Chi is the pandaren word for "Spirit", the same energy used by shamans to heal. It is the primal life force the shaman tap into. Monks harness their inner chi (i.e. inner spirit) to power their abilities, while using their bodies as their main weapon: Chi energy is directed to control the battlefield by enhancing one's movement and restricting foe’s, healing allies while simultaneously damaging enemies, or invoking celestial spirits to aid in battle.

[Kikazz]

So if a Mage gets challenged by a Warrior, does he just lay down and die?

This is a bought of ohnour, a warrior fighting a mage isn't very ohnourable.


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Can you cite a source on that? Because there are ZERO sources stating that the use of magic in mak'gora is forbidden or frowned upon.
What is forbidden, or frowned upon, is using weapons that your opponent is unaware of.
If you coat your weapon with poison, but fail to inform your opponent of it, that's cheating. if you're secretly a spellcaster, but pretend you're just a common brawler only to fry your opponent to a crisp, that's cheating.
The only rule in Mak'gora, is that the one being challenged sets the rules, and the one issuing the challenge has to obey them.
If I challenge you, then you can dictate what weapons are allowed, what weapons are forbidden, what armor both of us get to wear, etc. And I have to obey, and abide by those rules. If I challenge you, and you don't specify any of the above, then that's an unspoken agreement that there are no rules, and anything goes.
Garrosh challenged Thrall to a Mak'gora before. In the Warcraft comic, we see Thrall fighting garrosh mano-a-mano, but when the scourge attack orgrimmar, Thrall decides that defending the city is more important than massaging the ego of an idiot, and swats garrosh like a flea with a single lightning bolt.
Not ONE PERSON questioned Thrall's honor, after all, he was the one being challenged, and he never said "no magic".
When Cairne challenged Garrosh, it was garrosh who said they'd fight with no armor, and only one weapon, it was also garrosh who said the duel would be to the death.
When Thrall challenged Garrosh to mak'gora, garrosh could have used the opportunity to demand that no magic be used, but he said nothing, giving his unspoken approval that Thrall is free to use whatever he wants in the fight. Maybe he was sufficiently maddened by ego and rage to think that he could take on a fully powered shaman with nothing but an axe. The few hits he got in, were mostly because Thrall was holding back.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Mak'gora

Each Participant is allowed one weapon.

clearly states a combat of weapons, not magic's.

body armor is forbidden, it is a combat of Strength not magic.

[Traveler Voltin]

This is a bought of ohnour, a warrior fighting a mage isn't very ohnourable.


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http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Mak'gora

Each Participant is allowed one weapon.

clearly states a combat of weapons, not magic's.

body armor is forbidden, it is a combat of Strength not magic.

never use wowwiki

[Al Gorefiend]

Mak'gora is a challenge of strength. Magic isn't implied to be a characteristic of strength, but rather intellect and wisdom. Therefore magic is against the rules of Mak'gora.

As for Thrall using magic against Garrosh in pre-Wrath event, feels like an oversight to me or not a true Mak'gora as neither intended real harm on the other.

[Kikazz]

never use wowwiki

Wowpedia, and several other sources quote the same thing more or less, that makgora is a challenge of physical strength and not one of magic.

[Felixon]

Wowpedia, and several other sources quote the same thing more or less, that makgora is a challenge of physical strength and not one of magic.

Only the below mentioned rule,might allow such presumption:
Each participant is allowed one weapon. A blessing of this weapon by a shaman of their choosing is permitted, but not required.
There's no such rule,that would clearly state,that "usage of magic is forbidden".Yet,above mentioned allows you to interprete the rule as "the only buff/blessing,can be used/granted,is shamans blessing".
Though,ofc, in movie it appears,that gul'dan was a coward,who managed to beat Durotan only by using his fel magic.This coin has two sides - the first,that as a warrior,you would consider,that only physical weak would use magic and consider it as "cheating". On the other hand,heck,do you really expect a mage to drop his robe and rush towards with his staff?I would really appreciate,if Blizzard would comment on this matter and express is it/isn't it considered as a cheating to use magic during Mak'gora.If it's,heck,that means, that in orcish society only a warrior has a chance to challenge for the clan/Horde rule,since he is the only one,who relies on his strength and weapon mastery alone.

[Deleted]

Only the below mentioned rule,might allow such presumption:
Each participant is allowed one weapon. A blessing of this weapon by a shaman of their choosing is permitted, but not required.
There's no such rule,that would clearly state,that "usage of magic is forbidden".Yet,above mentioned allows you to interprete the rule as "the only buff/blessing,can be used/granted,is shamans blessing".
Though,ofc, in movie it appears,that gul'dan was a coward,who managed to beat Durotan only by using his fel magic.This coin has two sides - the first,that as a warrior,you would consider,that only physical weak would use magic and consider it as "cheating". On the other hand,heck,do you really expect a mage to drop his robe and rush towards with his staff?I would really appreciate,if Blizzard would comment on this matter and express is it/isn't it considered as a cheating to use magic during Mak'gora.If it's,heck,that means, that in orcish society only a warrior has a chance to challenge for the clan/Horde rule,since he is the only one,who relies on his strength and weapon mastery alone.

You have to remember that in orcish society before they came to azeroth, they were a warrior society with shamans as elders. Shamans never issued a mak'gora and it probably would be dishonorable to challenge one as they are respected. If a shaman would want to become warchief he should have the physical prowess to show he's worth it, the elements are still sentient and asking for their aid is like asking someone else for aid.

In the end a mak'gora is a duel about honour and personal strenght, to get support from their clan, using fel magic in a duel is a quick way to not get any support for example

the current mak'gora rules should probably have something about those using the arcane, the only respected form of magic that doesn't require permission from an outside force. But according to orcish culture it probably wouldn't be very honourable for a mage to issue a mak'gora and incinerate their opponent within 5 seconds of the battle.