Pre-patch cinematics [spoilers] (duh)

[thilicen]

I'm getting confused here

Is the broken shore actually live in game or were the cinematics datamined?

Should be live as of today yes.

[Mehrunes]

Cinematic was awesome. But im still believe what Horde betrayed Alliance. Yes i understand what staying on ridge was suicide for them. BUT. While Horde was rekted EVEN before BL reinforces arrived Alliance was high and cool. Varian planned to end this at Broken Shore. And who knows - if Horde stayed and bought them enough time maybe Varian and Alliance could shut down portal and stop Gul'dan. Vol'jin and Horde wasn't ready to sacrifice and pay the price for victory. They just leave. Yea i know Sylvanas used horn and Alliance knew what they leaving - but what it changes? Alliance still was left on their own and Varian was forced to sacrifice himself to get Genn and rest survive.

That could be because Horde faces bigger army. And there's not really a reinforcement, the stream of demon was rather constant. And we do know that even if Horde stayed there would be no victory. The portal wouldn't be sealed without Pillars of Creation so the factions would get fucked by endless stream of demons anyway. Not to mention there's no reason for Gul'dan not to drop the Fel Reaver meteor on top of everyone if things started to look bad for him. Also, given the topology of the battlefield, the Horde was on their own the entire time, the Alliance couldn't offer them help up a cliff. On the other hand, Alliance had support from the Horde raining fire from up above. Horde was fighting on two fronts and the moment they stop babysitting Alliance (because Varian couldn't grab some Night Elf rangers or humans wielding guns) the Alliance immediately withdraws as well. But obviously, a retreat in face of overwhelming army is betrayal, because reasons.

no blizzard simply show again it's poor skill at writing a basic credible story.

How is characters being mortal not a basic credible story?

[Shadow of the Darkspear]

Only GoT can have major deaths? On that matter: did GoT all of a sudden invent that stuff?

Lookin' at history of Warcraft, We can't see such thing happening very often, btw i don't think i'm the only one who finds Sylvanas similar to Cersei and not to mention Varian and high sparrow dying in the same way, that can't be a coincident.

[thilicen]

Lookin' at history of Warcraft, We can't see such thing happening very often, btw i don't think i'm the only one who finds Sylvanas similar to Cersei and not to mention Varian and high sparrow dying in the same way, that can't be a coincident.

So it has to either happen often or not at all? If it doesn't happen often it's more impactful when it does. And I didn't see the high sparrow get ripped apart by fel energy by a Legion maniac. Fel has been green for a long time, you'd rather they changed it to pink to avoid similarities in colors? In fact, GoT making Wildfire green would be the actual ripoff if that was even an issue.

[HordeFanboy]

tell me where were jaina and khadgar wtf

[Shadow of the Darkspear]

So it has to either happen often or not at all? If it doesn't happen often it's more impactful when it does. And I didn't see the high sparrow get ripped apart by fel energy by a Legion maniac. Fel has been green for a long time, you'd rather they changed it to pink to avoid similarities in colors? In fact, GoT making Wildfire green would be the actual ripoff if that was even an issue.

Taking elements doesn't mean copying exactly. I'm not talkin' about color of fel but the elements which have been taken from GoT. just watch the two scenes once more, you clearly see that people at Blizzard are watching GoT little bit too much.

[Raetary]

tell me where were jaina and khadgar wtf

khadgar in kharazan and releasing the demon hunters, i mean really, its obvious.
and im pretty sure i saw jaina with her wings, horns and hooves somewhere in the demon masses

[Shadow of the Darkspear]

tell me where were jaina and khadgar wtf

Jaina is there, but doesn't appear in the cinematic.

I guess Khadgar is busy with Dalaran and the new Demon Hunters.

[thilicen]

Taking elements doesn't mean copying exactly. I'm not talkin' about color of fel but the elements which have been taken from GoT. just watch the two scenes once more, you clearly see that people in Blizzard are watching GoT little bit too much.

Yeah you're gonna have to explain those similarities because apart from them dying and shit being green I'm not seeing it.

[Krazzorx]

That's the point though. Just like in Cata, Malfurion is isolated to the side threat again which to me makes no sense because he was the one leading the charge in WotA and WC3. The main plot here is the legion.

I think the biggest reason for that is so we can have the Nightborne major storyline in 7.0 so they can deal with Gul'dan.

[Shadow of the Darkspear]

Yeah you're gonna have to explain those similarities because apart from them dying and shit being green I'm not seeing it.

They two dying yes, but in an exact same way. Varian doesn't have to be burnt and crushed necessarily even by fel magic. Also That evil enjoyment in Gul'dan reminded me of smile on Cersei's face while watching High Sparrow burning and all these major deaths. I'm pretty sure even people at Blizzard won't disagree on the similarities between the two.

[thilicen]

They two dying yes, but in an exact same way. Varian doesn't have to be burnt and crushed necessarily even by fel magic. Also That evil enjoyment in Gul'dan reminded me of smile on Cersei's face and all these major deaths. I'm pretty sure even people at Blizzard won't disagree on the similarities between the two.

Man you're reaching so hard on this one. If death involving fire and the killer smiling is all you've got then please just drop it already. There are sooooo many other cases like this one in fantasy that you could fill an entire book.

And "The exact same way"? Really?

[Shadow of the Darkspear]

Man you're reaching so hard on this one. If death involving fire and the killer smiling is all you've got then please just drop it already. There are sooooo many other cases like this one in fantasy that you could fill an entire book.

And "The exact same way"? Really?

You'd better go watch those scenes and if you have the eyes you'll see, and everybody knows killing off major characters is G R.R Martin's thing.

[thilicen]

You'd better go watch those scenes and if you have the eyes you'll see, and everybody knows killing off major characters is G R.R Martin's thing.

All I can see is you wanting this to be true way to hard. You're way off on this one. And sure, let's applaud G.R.R.M for inventing major deaths

[Shadow of the Darkspear]

All I can see is you wanting this to be true way to hard. You're way off on this one. And sure, let's applaud G.R.R.M for inventing major deaths

it's true per se, i'm just stating the obvious , and that major death thing is an element in writing.

[thilicen]

it's true per se, i'm just stating the obvious , and that major death thing is an element in writing.

Well a lot of delusions are obvious to the delusional. Keep fighting the good fight.

[jdbond592]

You'd better go watch those scenes and if you have the eyes you'll see, and everybody knows killing off major characters is G R.R Martin's thing.

I read Gardens of Moon a long time ago. Our primary protagonists gets killed in like first 5 chapters. ASoIAF doesn't even come close to sheer brutality and scale as shown in Malazan series. Atleast in ASOIAF, someone is keeping count. All deaths have consequences. Starks are still there. Too many kids, bastard kids, aunts and uncles..ASoIAF would reach Malazan level shock factor if entire Stark family was killed off in first book. Every last one of them. Fat man can kill people because there are so many in line to replace those characters. These dime and dozen characters in ASoIAF don't serve any value and have little "earth shattering" impact if they get killed. Try killing Danerys for example. It will kill the story. No more Targaryens in waiting.

[Shadow of the Darkspear]

Well a lot of delusions are obvious to the delusional. Keep fighting the good fight.

Sure thing, Kiddo.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Great cinematics. The Alliance one especially stands out for being outstanding.

As for the whole "The Horde betrayed the Alliance", no they technically did not. However, that does not mean that the Horde is completely innocent either. I mean seriously, all Sylvanas would have needed to do was to send a messenger to the Alliance forces to explain the situation. Instead she just sounded the horn for retreat with no intention of making sure that it would not come off as them abandoning the Alliance to get slaughtered by the demons.

Heck, she even had Val'kyrs nearby. Just tell one of them to go down there and tell Varian to get out of Dodge and you would have avoided another war with the Alliance. Some simple communication from Sylvanas would have solved everything.

[Magnagarde]

How exactly? They stood below that cliff and saw fuckton of demons advancing on that cliff. What other reason would the Horde have to retreat? Okham's Razor, the simplest explanation is the best. The simplest explanation for military retreat is that you're having your ass handed to you. For the Alliance to see it as betrayal they have to actually reach for some conjured up reasons of their own. There's no insight in the state of individual Horde members needed. No omniscience. They had enough data available to them to realize what's going on up there.

You'd have a point if they didn't see the army of demons because it gave chase to the retreating Horde or specifically stood back to make it look like the Horde retreated over nothing. They didn't.

If the demons' numbers are reason enough to retreat, then why didn't the Horde retreat the moment they saw the gigantic demonic portal opened on the horizon? Why didn't they retreat the moment they landed on the shore? Why didn't they retreat the moment they just arrived to battle? The number of demons visible there is far greater than the number they've encountered during the cinematic.

Yes, fel guards are cannon fodder compared to pit lords and dreadlords. Managing to impale Varian from behind still doesn't make them a greater threat than the Burning Legion's top "officers".

If they had enough data available, then they should've signalled for a retreat while both parties could do so. Instead they got their ass kicked and left the Alliance to fend for their own.

If your interpretation is to have any weight whatsoever, then omniscience is necessary. There was no reason for the Alliance to retreat as long as they think that the Horde is alright and fighting; they've dealt with far greater catastrophes in the past in terms of attacker/defender rates. The point is that they didn't know that the Horde was already beaten to its knees. Therefor yes, only an omniscient Alliance would know why the Horde retreated.