[Balance] Legion Discussion

[MV Kaa]

QoL fixes are just QoL. The fundamental gameplay is fun. Methodical, but fun.

And I also shit all over the other boomkinn in raid tonight because he forgot to put it on after he died on trash

[Acardis]

Are any of the new legendary items sort of 'mandatory' to get for us Boomkins?

[Deleted]

Are any of the new legendary items sort of 'mandatory' to get for us Boomkins?

Asking if something is mandatory out of context makes very little sense. If you're a mythic raider your guild would likely expect you to have one of the three dps legendaries, but if you primarily pvp, or just play the game casually and don't care much about your dps, then they are by no means mandatory to have.

[Birgwow]

How do you guys keep track of the radius around Sunfire, Fire of Elune, Lunar Strike, and which targets will get affected? Do you get used to it or is there another way to know which targets it will spread to? Also wondering if there's a difference depending on how large the target is.

[Juvencus]

How do you guys keep track of the radius around Sunfire, Fire of Elune, Lunar Strike, and which targets will get affected? Do you get used to it or is there another way to know which targets it will spread to? Also wondering if there's a difference depending on how large the target is.

Experience and Nameplate auras.

The size of the target does play a role in a sense of visualizing the radius. The spread radius is from the center, not the edges of the hitbox. So Sunfire on immense targets like Mannoroth will not spread to adds that are 5y from it's hitbox but rather 5y from his center, which makes it harder to calculate without having the hitbox circle helping you.

[Lucrece]

Anyone who is concerned about our survivability should be tweeting Celestalon, WarcraftDevs, HamletEJ and Muffinus on these (and reposting on beta forums):

1- Our resto affinity heals need to be castable in form. The GCD penalty is unacceptable.

2- They need to heal for more than a shaman or spriest spamming their flash heals. Shamans and spriests heal for so much more, it's dumb. We are PAYING a talent for these heals, if we pick resto affinity we should have performance in healing close to a resto druid just like guardian affinity allows us to tank.

3- Barkskin for balance specialization needs a buff up to 40% damage reduction. 20% is just pitiful.

[Keiyra]

Experience and Nameplate auras.

The size of the target does play a role in a sense of visualizing the radius. The spread radius is from the center, not the edges of the hitbox. So Sunfire on immense targets like Mannoroth will not spread to adds that are 5y from it's hitbox but rather 5y from his center, which makes it harder to calculate without having the hitbox circle helping you.

I thought that was changed a while back? (Ii mean I know when on the mage ice lance cleaves off mannoroth to a seemingly huge range). Isn't is something like if the center off the adds hit box is within the 10 yards of the outside edge of the bosses hit box you get the cleave?

- or maybe its from the center of the target hit box to the edge of cleave targets hit box...maybe its that one. (sounds more right - but still sucks for sunfire/LS with their 5 yard radii.)

[Adramelch]

melees just had l2p issues with it tho it was really easy mechanic to do even if 15 raid members were on melee range, the size on fire patch was so small so it was just 1yd left 1yd right sidestepping. Problem at progress was that melees did run around like headless chickens trying to avoid fires (l2p issues). Melees could do what they did on Kargath mythic; stand on one stack and move left, right, left right when 2x fire patches under them.

Except, you know, tempest did AoE damage on spawn as well (45k-ish per spawn iirc, in a 2yd radius).

On Archimonde Mythic with chains and wrought of chaos at same time the balance druids needed external defensive cd's to stay alive. On our raids it was default that Sacs were used to balance druids on chains when wrought was up. Balance druid had to use barkskin, go on bear form etc to stay alive with sac. Now we have 10% flat damage taken reduce which is really good, but I still feel like chain + wrought combo can kill me pretty easily through barkskin and bear form.

Also bullshit. Unless your healers were utter shit and/or you were out of range and/or you were shit at avoiding wroughts, you never had to use anything else other than a well-timed barkskin. Even more so after the ilvl upgrades.

[Deleted]

DH, shaman, DK's all came out really well in design and gameplay.

Druids, warlocks, and warriors came out easily the worst.

yeah, I don't mind about damage balancing and stuff atm, as this is always subject to change.
but I'm not convinced by the balance playstyle atm.
we have 0 proccs, we have nothing in our rotation that is random.
the rotation will be 100% same each fight, that sounds kinda boring

[Lucrece]

Well, there are classes with set rotations, but usually those classes involve more buttons than the pittance balance druids get.

I normally don't agree with much of what Preach says, but I think he encapsulated it perfectly when he said none of our spells are particularly special or have interesting interactions.

Moonfire and sunfire exist for no reason when it could just be condensed to moonfire with baseline spread instead of havint two cloned spells to add to our aoe ramp up. Sunfire only existed for the eclipse mechanic, and it should have died with it.

Starsurge's damage is utterly pathetic, it hits for next to nothing due to the stupid empowerments, and the same goes for our baseline fillers.

What's worse is we lost all utility just to end up as a middling dps spec after all these nerfs in alpha/beta. Not only will we be undesirable in mythic+ dungeons because of our horrible AoE system, but because we simply bring nothing of value to a group besides damage.

DPS with movement is also the worst out of all the caster specs in the game alongside destro warlock. Unlike the warlock, however, our survival is also crap.

[Frostyfire14]

Nature's Balance could have a passive that makes a chance to cause Starsurge to be free :O Emphasizes the "randomness" that people are looking for, as well as fits the purpose of Nature's Balance - Single Target pew pew

[Frostyfire14]

Things to point out:

1) class lacks spontaneity
2) many QoL changes needed. ie Reston affinity global cost or BotA turning off after death
3) Barkskin needs to have a Balance specific modification.
4) Starfall cost needs to be adjusted somehow in some form

[lappee]

@Lucrece, I really havent seen you do anything but whine about everything. Please just reroll if other classes are more to your liking and leave us with our "problems".

[Deleted]

He's spreading baseless nonsense in nearly every class forum. Just ignore him. No one likes him, nor his social environment (if existent at all), whats likely the reason why he's still here and "arguing" about things he has clearly no clue of.

[Deleted]

Except, you know, tempest did AoE damage on spawn as well (45k-ish per spawn iirc, in a 2yd radius).



Also bullshit. Unless your healers were utter shit and/or you were out of range and/or you were shit at avoiding wroughts, you never had to use anything else other than a well-timed barkskin. Even more so after the ilvl upgrades.

Tempest did 0 damage when you avoided it. Sidestepping 2yd is so hard.

Uhm, this is not bullshit. Probably you stacked healers on your raid to cover up the mistakes, but we do archi with 2 healers. Well-timed barkskin can't be used 100% on wrought + chain combo, and of course we avoid other wroughts, it's basics.

Yesterday Archimonde Mythic I got chain during the wroughts, popped barkskin + used tonic when nearly died and still I had to scream to healers to give some external. Of course this problem could be easily be easily avoided by stacking up healers, but we currently have only few healers logging to raids.

[DDM]

Except, you know, tempest did AoE damage on spawn as well (45k-ish per spawn iirc, in a 2yd radius).



Also bullshit. Unless your healers were utter shit and/or you were out of range and/or you were shit at avoiding wroughts, you never had to use anything else other than a well-timed barkskin. Even more so after the ilvl upgrades.

I didn't post anymore, because it doesn't make any sense. Let them keep on whining.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=180300/infernal-tempest
http://www.wowhead.com/guides/raidin...strategy-guide
Every 1.5 seconds for 6 seconds, Velhari will burn all players in the raid with Infernal Tempest
This damage splashes on to other players within 2 yards, so the melee DPS must be moderately spread out to avoid taking heavy damage
When a player is struck by Infernal Tempest, they will create a Searing Blaze at their feet
3 seconds later, the Searing Blaze will erupt in a geyser of flames, dealing moderate damage to players within 3 yards of it and knocking those players through the air

HF doing this in a raid with 3 ranged 3-4 healers and the rest melee/tank.



B2T: Guardian or Resto Affinity for raids? I thought i always have read, that the passive heal of Resto is way to weak and the flat dmg reduction of Guardian is way better. Did this change at some point or did i missread something?

[Deleted]

B2T: Guardian or Resto Affinity for raids? I thought i always have read, that the passive heal of Resto is way to weak and the flat dmg reduction of Guardian is way better. Did this change at some point or did i missread something?

For 10% DR to beat 3% healing every 5 sec, you need to take 30% of your max HP in damage every 5 sec (mitigating 10% of 30% -> 3% mitigated). When it comes to burst damage, 10% DR needs to beat Swiftmend, which heals for ~15% of our max HP. That requires you to take more than 150% of your max HP in damage. You're obviously never going to take that amount of damage in one hit if you execute the encounter properly, which means you would have to take a lot of damage over a longer period of time. While encounters like that certainly exists, they are rather rare. Wrought Chaos on archi did ~50% of your HP per tick, over 12 seconds, but at that point you'd have to include atleast 2 ticks of Ysera's Gift, and you would heal for 15% + 2*3% = 21%, where as Guardian aff would effectively only do 10% of 150% -> 15%. If you had chain on top of Wroughs it might be enough to push Guardian Affinity ahead, or if you were willing to sit in bear form for the 3 sec duration of Frenzied regn. to heal it back up. At some point it just becomes a matter of whether you'd rather sacrifice 0 GCDs (guardian aff and never leave boomkin form), 2 GCDs (resto aff + swiftmend -> boomkin), or ~4 GCDs (guardian aff + bear -> take dmg -> frenzied regn. -> wait -> boomkin)

Honestly they are probably close enough that it doesn't matter much.

[Juvencus]

- or maybe its from the center of the target hit box to the edge of cleave targets hit box...maybe its that one. (sounds more right - but still sucks for sunfire/LS with their 5 yard radii.)

As far as I know, this is how it works.

[Cyous]

Haste > Intellect > Versatility > Critical Strike > Mastery

Stat Weights (Normalized) - Weighted 70% / 15% / 15%
Haste (1.00)
Intellect (0.86)
Versatility (0.74)
Critical Strike (0.65)
Mastery (0.53)

Stat Weights - Weighted 70% / 15% / 15%
Haste (10.19)
Intellect (8.75)
Versatility (7.59)
Critical Strike (6.65)
Mastery (5.43)

* 867.53 ilvl (903 weapon) + T19 + Full Artifact (34 points)
* SimulationCraft Weights: 70% Single-Target, 15% Multi-Target (3 targets) and "HecticAddCleave" mode
* Averages various "viable builds" to achieve average before final weight.
* My APL is much better than yours. Fight me.

_____________

APL that I use...
http://pastebin.com/Eq6PEEVU

[Lucrece]

@Lucrece, I really havent seen you do anything but whine about everything. Please just reroll if other classes are more to your liking and leave us with our "problems".

Given you put problems under quotations, care to dispute which of my "whines" is not legitimate?

Is survivability a "problem"? Are you going to argue that barkskin our our GCD inducing low heals are fine?

Or are you going to argue for Innervate's attractiveness as our beacon of group utility?

I mean, I just told someone we're nowhere near as bad as feral or warlocks.

Really, other than telling people to leave because you don't like their opinions, opinions echoed by people right after my posts, what exactly is your problem other than an axe to grind?