[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Lumineus]

even during HFC, people were crying about ret being a non viable dps for raiding, even though we were among the top for single target dps.

That's because we were hot garbage during progression even after a 5% buff to Sword of Light. We only got to be decent single target with the fully upgraded ring AND another 8% buff to almost all of our attacks that came several months after the fact (which it took them an extra week to apply to Final Verdict, for some reason...)

[Geso]

That's because we were hot garbage during progression even after a 5% buff to Sword of Light. We only got to be decent single target with the fully upgraded ring AND another 8% buff to almost all of our attacks that came several months after the fact (which it took them an extra week to apply to Final Verdict, for some reason...)

Not to mention due to gear fights got so short that we had near 100% uptime on AW

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not to mention due to gear fights got so short that we had near 100% uptime on AW

Everybody gets a hammer!

[snackfeat]

That's because we were hot garbage during progression even after a 5% buff to Sword of Light. We only got to be decent single target with the fully upgraded ring AND another 8% buff to almost all of our attacks that came several months after the fact (which it took them an extra week to apply to Final Verdict, for some reason...)

Not to mention due to gear fights got so short that we had near 100% uptime on AW

Both are wrong. We were never hot garbage during progression in HFC, if you experienced this, then it's nothing more than a l2p issue.

We were also very strong long before we got anywhere near 100% uptime on AW on any fight, maybe except for iron reaver.

[Lumineus]

Classes that aren't struggling don't get 12% buffs. Even your assertion that we're "among the top" for single target damage is laughable. Among the top for runners-up after the outliers Blizzard refuses to fix, maybe. Must be nice playing a version of WoW where you don't have to compete with Mages, Rogues and Warlocks capable of up to double your DPS. :P

[scapeg]

Cons:
-I really dont like Seraphims's Blessing. Its too situational und clunky. 40% Health + 1min cd and 5 sec dutaion. Even if they would double it and lower the cdr, I wouldnt drop my dispel.
- Not Sure why you cant dispel sheep...
- Also not happy with Holy ritual. Even though it procs on dispel, freedom and bop. The heal feels kinda weak compared to Luminescence.
-What really really dont like about ret pvp wise, is that you dont have some kind of tool against caster or magic dmg. I would be happy if i could skill into magic bop even thought it could be dispelled or purged. It would be at least something at all. Also SoV not dispellable would help a lot!!
- Also lvl 45 tier is quite bad desigend. I noticed that when they added cavalier, that a lot of new opportunitys opened up.
Hand down Fist of Justice is too good. It leaves no play for other options. Solution: reduce Hammer of Justice cd to 45 sec? nerf Fist of justice to 6 sec maybe than there is a real choice to make.
- Same goes somehow for lvl 15 tier. Final Verdics is too good to pass up most of the time. Still dont know what came to thier mind when Consecration was added..
- Other spells that can aligne with cons are Greater Judgment and seal of light.
- THey should also buff WoG a little bit more . JV and Eye4nEye are too strong. Raise heal maybe. Needs more impact.

Pros:
- I like the last pvp tier. I think Lawbringer and Divine Punisher are nice choices to make. Hammer of Reckoning should be buffed or changed to be more viable. But I like this tier. It changes the gameplay not to drastically but leaves some room for customisation.
- I really like Law and Order the way it works atm. Hope it will stay that way. Maybe they add a little bit of cdr for Unbound freedom.
- I love Holy wrath I think its realy fun for PvP. I have a blast when I can use it. Maybe they should add that it foucs playes. BM and UH DK pets can fuck it up sometimes.
I think they should add some more effekts that synegize with spending holy power. like Fist of Justice. It feelds quite more rewarding doing TV knowing your stun comes off cooldown
In general I am happy with Ret. So far its the best Ret since Holy Power.

[snackfeat]

Classes that aren't struggling don't get 12% buffs. Even your assertion that we're "among the top" for single target damage is laughable. Among the top for runners-up after the outliers Blizzard refuses to fix, maybe. Must be nice playing a version of WoW where you don't have to compete with Mages, Rogues and Warlocks capable of up to double your DPS. :P

The reason we got buffed mid tier, is because we did not scale as well with gear as some other classes. This did not affect us much during progress due to lower gear levels. So again, if your dps sucked during progress, you are the problem. Also, if you ever got out dpsed after the buffs by any class by such a huge margin on a fight lasting more than 30 seconds, I question why I'm even wasting my time reading your post. You sound who pugs normal and never set a foot inside mythic, let alone cleared it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't really believe we're among the top either. We've always been middle of the pack.

[Lumineus]

The thirty second Fel Lord kills were already starting before we got the second round of buffs, so that's no excuse. Then even if you accept Arcane being ridiculous (which I don't, it's been a problem since WotLK when Street was jamming his thumbs in his ear canals screaming "LALALAMANAMANAGEMENT") it's Affliction(!), Sub and Fire (yes FIRE) far and away above the next spec too, and this was since at least December.

[Alindra]

Honestly I think Storm's critical (although cynical) analysis of Ret is still needed for a balanced approach. But I would encourage basically everyone to look at the spec and think "Here's what I like, here's what I don't like." Reactions like "the whole thing is garbage" should be a personal sign that "maybe I'm playing the wrong class if I hate the whole thing."

I should probably not say this, for a variety of reasons, but... ah hell.

I don't mind critical analysis, critique, or even subjective opinions of Paladin and how they are in Ret. I think it's important to have a balanced outlook on things, too - even if those thoughts and opinions are different than mine. People like and dislike different elements of play and grow attached to different aspects of their character(s) for different reasons, and seeing that thing they like be eroded after years of play is frustrating. I understand that.

That being said, I find Storm's constant snide comments really tiring to read. It's not just the cynicism, but how condescending so many of his posts "sound," especially when he's disagreeing with people. He has made good points and posts before, but man, there is a heck of a signal to noise ratio there that tires me out. I don't have him or anyone else on ignore and don't intend to start, but I do wish he would ease up on his responses.

He's not the only one, mind you, just the most vocal and visible.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I tend to just ignore Storm's snark. I can see what he is saying beyond the snark. I don't blame you for not being able to. He can be pretty overpowering.

[ruiizu]

By the way, just want to share...

Demon Hunter doesn't even feel like you're playing the same game as everyone else. They're so mobile they make Monks look slow. After playing one for a few hours, my Ret felt like Dan Hibiki compared to Shin Akuma/Gouki. My Ret can roll and shake his fist, while the Demon Hunter is teleporting around and slashing everything up.

On the plus side, the Demon Hunter also feels like Shin Akuma in that it takes some pretty insane damage. Felt like everything was kicking my ass and there was like no way to get back HP (granted you only get 2 talents at level 100).

[anaxie]

Everybody gets a hammer!

and none were left to throw in Legion

Threw every last one in WoD.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason we got buffed mid tier, is because we did not scale as well with gear as some other classes. This did not affect us much during progress due to lower gear levels. So again, if your dps sucked during progress, you are the problem. Also, if you ever got out dpsed after the buffs by any class by such a huge margin on a fight lasting more than 30 seconds, I question why I'm even wasting my time reading your post. You sound who pugs normal and never set a foot inside mythic, let alone cleared it.

Ret didn't scale well with gear.

better buff sword of light!

Like EVERY TIER PATCH EVER


Do we still have sword of light?

I'm gonna make a quick call and say it's going to need to be buffed during the middle of the second tier launch.

I would bet your childrens lives on that happening.

As for another clustfuck extravaganza beta development cycle for ret 2 years from now.

If it doesn't happen it's just not Warcraft. it's gonna happen. It ALWAYS happens.

[Deleted]

Do we still have sword of light?

5% at the current state as far as I know.
And welcome back

[anaxie]

5% at the current state as far as I know.
And welcome back

5%. hahahahhahahah those fucking clowns.

don't worry that knob will probably reach 25% before this expansion ends.

Actually without their old mastery its not a hur dur fix anymore for blizzard. So ret is probably fucked.

[Deleted]

5%. hahahahhahahah those fucking clowns.

don't worry that knob will probably reach 25% before this expansion ends.

Actually without their old mastery its not a hur dur fix anymore for blizzard. So ret is probably fucked.

I bet, I am just waiting for it to happen.. but most likely when the general chunk of players get to 110 and the first raid is unlocked

[snackfeat]

and none were left to throw in Legion

Threw every last one in WoD.

- - - Updated - - -



Ret didn't scale well with gear.

better buff sword of light!

Like EVERY TIER PATCH EVER


Do we still have sword of light?

I'm gonna make a quick call and say it's going to need to be buffed during the middle of the second tier launch.

I would bet your childrens lives on that happening.

As for another clustfuck extravaganza beta development cycle for ret 2 years from now.

If it doesn't happen it's just not Warcraft. it's gonna happen. It ALWAYS happens.

Ret is likely going to scale better in legion than previously. The main reason for our bad scaling was that almost all our abilities was AP scaling, but in legion it's mostly weapon damage.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ret is likely going to scale better in legion than previously. The main reason for our bad scaling was that almost all our abilities was AP scaling, but in legion it's mostly weapon damage.

And what about secondaries scaling?

[snackfeat]

And what about secondaries scaling?

We scale very well with haste, with the other 3 being somewhat even, and mastery getting better the more haste you have.

[Morally Grey Storm]

We scale very well with haste, with the other 3 being somewhat even, and mastery getting better the more haste you have.

Haste past 30% looses all value, AFAIK, though