Anyone else happy Sylvannas is the new faction leader?

[anaxie]

The relationship between Cairne and Garrosh in The Shattering totally made me side with Garrosh. Garrosh was trying to learn, and Cairne was an unreasonable asshat for the entire book, never giving him a chance. There was even a point where Garrosh begged Cairne to stay in Orgrimmar as his advisor, and Cairne was just like, "nah, nah, Hellscreams are shits, I'm out." And then Cairne got tricked by the Twilight's Hammer and Magatha and got himself killed.

Blizzard didn't know what the fuck they were doing with Garrosh, and it showed. Half the time he was clever, honorable, and working for the good of the Horde, the rest of the time he was a warmongering idiot for no conceivable reason. And then people hated him so they decided to go all in and make him a villain, and they cranked the warmongering to 11.

Considering how Garrosh Led to wod and Wod lead to this eventual climax in the story.

I'm pretty sure Garrosh's personality change wasnt a "spur of the moment" change.

For everthing "honorable" he did you have to question if he wasn't using his General <in stonetalons case> as a scapegoat to cover up his own malice.

I mean afterall! is the general going to disagree with him? Lets re read the quest transcript.

Overlord Krom'gar says: Watch now, Cliffwalker, as this battle comes to its glorious conclusion.
High Chieftain Cliffwalker says: You are about to cross a terrible threshold, Krom'gar. May the Earth Mother have mercy on your soul.
Krom'gar releases the balloon holding the goblin bomb and sends it towards Thal'darah Grove. On arrival, the balloon drops the bomb directly on it, obliterating the entire area, leaving a large crater behind.
Overlord Krom'gar says: Look upon the world, Cliffwalker, and see the might of the Horde!
A portal from Orgrimmar suddenly forms nearby. Garrosh Hellscream and his guards emerge from the portal.
Garrosh Hellscream says: What have you done, Krom'gar?
Krom'gar bows before Garrosh.
Overlord Krom'gar says: Warchief! I... I was carrying out your command!
Garrosh Hellscream says: My command?
Garrosh Hellscream says: Was my command to murder innocents, Krom'gar?
Overlord Krom'gar says: Warchief... Sir... I...
Garrosh Hellscream says: Am I a murderer, Krom'gar?
Overlord Krom'gar says: No, Warchief!
Garrosh Hellscream says: Then I ask you again: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!
Krom'gar begins to cower before Garrosh.
Garrosh Hellscream says: I sent you into Stonetalon Mountains with an army. Your orders were to secure this land for the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Instead, you laid waste to the land. Murdered innocents. Children even...
Garrosh Hellscream says: I spent a very long time in Northrend, Krom'gar. I learned much about the Horde in that time.
Garrosh Hellscream says: While there, a wise old war hero told me something that I would carry with me forever...
Garrosh Hellscream says: "Honor," Krom'gar, "No matter how dire the battle... never forsake it."
Garrosh Hellscream says: Overlord Krom'gar, you have disgraced the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: You have brought shame to us as a people.
Garrosh Hellscream says: By my right as Warchief, I hereby relieve you of your duty.
Garrosh picks up Krom'gar by the throat and lifts him over the edge of the lift bridge.
Garrosh Hellscream says: YOU ARE DISMISSED.
Garrosh drops Krom'gar off the edge, sending him to his death. He then turns toward the hero.
Garrosh Hellscream says: And you, <race>!
High Chieftain Cliffwalker says: Wait, Warchief! Please! <Name> was the hero responsible for uncovering this corruption. <He/She> tried to stop Krom'gar!
High Chieftain Cliffwalker says: Have mercy, Warchief.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Mercy... Your wife and child were murdered. Your kin wiped out. Your home burned to the ground.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Mercy... Chieftain, on this day I learn from you.
Garrosh Hellscream says: <Name>, Krom'gar's army is no more. Your rank no longer has meaning. If you wish to truly help the Horde, your considerable power could be used in Desolace or in the Southern Barrens.
Garrosh Hellscream says: The choice is yours to make.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Let honor guide you, <name>. Do not forget that Hellscream's eyes are always upon you.



If you you fell for it Garrosh played you like a fiddle.

Look at the generals bewilderment at Garrosh's outrage.

He was saving face with the Tauren if this incident got out they the camels back would of been broken sooner


Also.... i never forget ^_^
I Relished in his death. Consider it payback for dangling the player off a cliff by their throat.

[Zulkhan]

Garrosh was a good guy too, until they decided he needed to die and turned him into a royal ass.

Arthas was a good guy too before he became a royal ass. Well, except the fact that Garrosh was never a proper "good guy" as rather a good-intentioned rotten apple.

If they've got Vol'jin overtly stating that Sylvanas will be the one to save the Horde in its darkest time, then that's probably what's going to happen.

Vol'jin never stated that, he was talking of the events already occurred on the Broken Shore. He was rather vague about anything else.

Still, I agree that the current storyline seems to push Sylvanas quite far from "raid boss" material.

The relationship between Cairne and Garrosh in The Shattering totally made me side with Garrosh. Garrosh was trying to learn, and Cairne was an unreasonable asshat for the entire book, never giving him a chance. There was even a point where Garrosh begged Cairne to stay in Orgrimmar as his advisor, and Cairne was just like, "nah, nah, Hellscreams are shits, I'm out." And then Cairne got tricked by the Twilight's Hammer and Magatha and got himself killed.

Cairne disliked Garrosh's brash and disrespectful behavior. Garrosh never had the necessary humility of someone willing to "learn", in fact he wanted things to go his way most of the times. And despite this, Cairne recognized Garrosh's skills as warrior/commander, as well pointed out to Thrall that exactly because Garrosh had potential but had a lot to learn yet, he couldn't be granted absolute power over the Horde. It was a foolish decision and we all witnessed its consequences. Furthermore, I don't remember Cairne ever desiring to leave Orgrimmar or refusing to be Garrosh's advisor. In fact, Garrosh and Cairne kind of came in decent terms until the Twilight's Hammer screwed things up.

Cairne's opinion of Garrosh was absolutely legitimate given what Cairne witnessed of him during half of the book. However, Cairne's fatal mistake was being struck by a sort of "confirmation bias" the moment he heard of his own people killed by orcs parading themselves as Horde members, screwing the very diplomatic meeting Garrosh, strange case, was vehemently against. Given people's general ignorance about the Twilight's Hammer activities at the time, so many hints, the involvement of Cairne's very people and his bias towards Garrosh, it's no surprise that he got his judgement clouded and made him jump to misplaced conclusions.

This said, while Cairne's challenge would have totally been avoidable (even though, hindsight given, killing Garrosh would have probably been a bless) even more avoidable would have been Garrosh pushing for a "traditional Mak'gora" and so a duel to the death for absolutely no reason, "traditional Mak'gora" of which he had zero clues about moreover, requiring him to be instructed by a tauren about orcish traditions.

Also worth adding: Cairne simply had Hamuul's version of the story to judge, who apparently forgot to mention that to the question "It was Garrosh who sent you?" the orc answered "Who?"; that would have been quite a valuable hint on Garrosh's favor.

[Deleted]

I personally wanted Baine to be the new warchief since I am in need of seeing more taurens in-game, however, I am now happy that Sylvanas is the new warchief since it looks like she has a higher chance of leading the Horde to victory.

[Deleted]

I like it, but i main forsaken and they are my favourite race. I just want a Warchief around long enough and other horde characters can get some lore or time in the spotlight. Hopefully she's stay for the next few expansions

[Zulkhan]

I personally wanted Baine to be the new warchief since I am in need of seeing more taurens in-game

It seems Baine will have things to do during the Highmountain storyline.

[Life-Binder]

Baine will be the next warchief after Sylv has trained him to be her successor

[Mehrunes]

It seems Baine will have things to do during the Highmountain storyline.

Is it accusing them of betraying his father?

[Zulkhan]

Is it accusing them of betraying his father?

No, that's silly.

He immediately starts the purge the moment he sets hoof there.

[Kathranis]

I personally wanted Baine to be the new warchief since I am in need of seeing more taurens in-game, however, I am now happy that Sylvanas is the new warchief since it looks like she has a higher chance of leading the Horde to victory.

I think Baine would objectively be the best leader for the Horde, and would help usher in an era of peace between the Horde and Alliance.

That's exactly why Blizzard can't make him Warchief. Not now, anyway.

[Deleted]

I think Baine would objectively be the best leader for the Horde, and would help usher in an era of peace between the Horde and Alliance.

That's exactly why Blizzard can't make him Warchief. Not now, anyway.

Honestly, that's true. I think Baine would make it peaceful between the two factions and it doesn't look like we are getting that sooner or later. Reason to why Baine should be a warchief now is that he could with the help of Anduin (that also wants peace) bring peace between the Horde and the Alliance.

[Deleted]

Baine's tactic of hugging won't work when Infernals have an Immolation aura.

Good that he knows how to fight enemies then, right?

[Deleted]

He never did anything ever. I honestly didn't know who he was when I first saw the SOO cinematic.

Yes, really sad that Vol'jin gets to do nothing. I love alliance and I am an alliance player but it's so sad when Varian gets a heroic death while Vol'jin dies slowly by a wound.. just like any other soldier there.. There is much about Vol'jin, you just can't see it in-game, you can find it all in the books.

- - - Updated - - -

No, not really.
He hardly has any experience and his fighting skills are okay.

I think Blizzard wants to write a story for Baine that will develop his character and we will see more of him, I am pretty sure he can do more than we know he can.
I heard he will be in Highmountain and do some stuff, lets hope that will be interesting.

[FertsBlert]

Arthas was a good guy too before he became a royal ass. Well, except the fact that Garrosh was never a proper "good guy" as rather a good-intentioned rotten apple.



Vol'jin never stated that, he was talking of the events already occurred on the Broken Shore. He was rather vague about anything else.

Still, I agree that the current storyline seems to push Sylvanas quite far from "raid boss" material.



Cairne disliked Garrosh's brash and disrespectful behavior. Garrosh never had the necessary humility of someone willing to "learn", in fact he wanted things to go his way most of the times. And despite this, Cairne recognized Garrosh's skills as warrior/commander, as well pointed out to Thrall that exactly because Garrosh had potential but had a lot to learn yet, he couldn't be granted absolute power over the Horde. It was a foolish decision and we all witnessed its consequences. Furthermore, I don't remember Cairne ever desiring to leave Orgrimmar or refusing to be Garrosh's advisor. In fact, Garrosh and Cairne kind of came in decent terms until the Twilight's Hammer screwed things up.

Cairne's opinion of Garrosh was absolutely legitimate given what Cairne witnessed of him during half of the book. However, Cairne's fatal mistake was being struck by a sort of "confirmation bias" the moment he heard of his own people killed by orcs parading themselves as Horde members, screwing the very diplomatic meeting Garrosh, strange case, was vehemently against. Given people's general ignorance about the Twilight's Hammer activities at the time, so many hints, the involvement of Cairne's very people and his bias towards Garrosh, it's no surprise that he got his judgement clouded and made him jump to misplaced conclusions.

This said, while Cairne's challenge would have totally been avoidable (even though, hindsight given, killing Garrosh would have probably been a bless) even more avoidable would have been Garrosh pushing for a "traditional Mak'gora" and so a duel to the death for absolutely no reason, "traditional Mak'gora" of which he had zero clues about moreover, requiring him to be instructed by a tauren about orcish traditions.

Also worth adding: Cairne simply had Hamuul's version of the story to judge, who apparently forgot to mention that to the question "It was Garrosh who sent you?" the orc answered "Who?"; that would have been quite a valuable hint on Garrosh's favor.

I still say putting Garrosh in the position of Warchief was a political move to remove the hardliners who WOULD NOT ACCEPT a non-orc warchief, Garrosh just went further than he was intended to.

[scorpious1109]

Prior to Legion cinematics, I would have said hell no. However, they did a good job of showing character growth in Sylvanas. Despite her setbacks, she seems to have learned that she can't do things by herself, and needs not only the Forsaken and entire horde, but knows when she even needs to work with the alliance as well, which is really important for a warchief.

[Kathranis]

Sylvanas and Illidan were/are my favorite characters from WC3; I am happy that she is going to get a turn to be the leader. Hopefully she figures out how to be immortal, or with the power of some Loa spirits, or whatever, becomes a living Elf again.

Well, with the introduction of the Valarjar, I imagine a Sylvanas redemption story would revolve around her somehow being purified by the sunborne val'kyr and finding a way not to cure the undead, but purify them as warriors for the Light. Then it'll be about giving the "worthy dead" a purpose in fighting the Legion and the Void. Something like that.

Would be a good excuse to introduce Forsaken paladins. If they'd even be called the Forsaken after that?

[Life-Binder]

Soon everyone will be light


Dreadlords, Illidan, Sylvanas


poor Void Lords

[Zulkhan]

Baine's tactic of hugging won't work when Infernals have an Immolation aura.

To be fair, Anduin's tactics aren't that different and yet he mimics the High King position of his father as far as we saw.

He hardly has any experience and his fighting skills are okay.

Considered how it's exactly Sylvanas acknowledging Baine as one of the best warriors the Horde has to offer, I say those skills are way above "okay". Kairoz, after all, managed to find a timeline where Baine gave in to anger rather than keep it in check and the final result was a Garrosh torn to pieces and Baine becoming Warchief.