DH lack self sustain?

[jayinjersey]

They just need to believe in themselves.

I laughed much harder than I should have for this

[Zyky]

You mentioned current content with Blackhand.... Not me. Hell thats even easier than current.

EDIT: but instead of making fun of you, I will answer your question. Level 104 talents. Literally an entire row designed to helping us stay alive.

Current content is too easy to need it, and when we do, at legion end game, we have an entire row to help us where we need it.

Apparently you don't know how to read. I said I haven't done LFR in a while and that people died on Blackhand when I use to do it and I had to heal myself to stay alive on it. So I really don't see how you would be "making fun of me". Should probably learn to read posts in full before you make yourself look like a moron.

As for an entire row of literally nothing, Blur only activating sub 35%, immune to damage but can't attack, and leech during a 5 minute cooldown, how are any of those sustainable? In what world do you live in thinking that any of those are good. None of them in the row "help us where we need it". Not a single Demon Hunter in the world who does serious progression raiding is going to save their dps cooldown to heal themselves up. Blur activating at a low health % is just plain awful. And Netherwalk does nothing, it replaces blur, increases the cooldown, and makes it so you can't do anything while its active. None of these are going to help players keep themselves alive when they need to.

They need something they can hit as an "oh shit my health is low and I'm not getting any heals". Like how DKs have Death Strike, its a dps loss and not used in the normal rotation, but it can save a DK from dying. Rogues with the new Vial spell or the old Recoup, rogues use(d) it when they had to dps loss to stay alive, oh ya lets not forget gold ol' Leeching Posion that gives 10% passive Leech. Feral Druid got a dps gain from using Healing Touch in their rotation and it could be used free and instant every 6-7 seconds. Ret Pally has Flash Heal. Warriors have enraged regen. Enh Shaman has Healing Surge. WW Monks have Effuse to heal themselves. So of all the melee only Demon Hunter can't heal themselves of all the classes only Arcane/Frost Mage and Havoc can't heal themselves. At least Frost/Arcane Mage have a massive shield that they can put up. So really your argument is invalid and you're making yourself look like a moron.

[DeuZWw]

Apparently you don't know how to read. I said I haven't done LFR in a while and that people died on Blackhand when I use to do it and I had to heal myself to stay alive on it. So I really don't see how you would be "making fun of me". Should probably learn to read posts in full before you make yourself look like a moron.

As for an entire row of literally nothing, Blur only activating sub 35%, immune to damage but can't attack, and leech during a 5 minute cooldown, how are any of those sustainable? In what world do you live in thinking that any of those are good. None of them in the row "help us where we need it". Not a single Demon Hunter in the world who does serious progression raiding is going to save their dps cooldown to heal themselves up. Blur activating at a low health % is just plain awful. And Netherwalk does nothing, it replaces blur, increases the cooldown, and makes it so you can't do anything while its active. None of these are going to help players keep themselves alive when they need to.

They need something they can hit as an "oh shit my health is low and I'm not getting any heals". Like how DKs have Death Strike, its a dps loss and not used in the normal rotation, but it can save a DK from dying. Rogues with the new Vial spell or the old Recoup, rogues use(d) it when they had to dps loss to stay alive, oh ya lets not forget gold ol' Leeching Posion that gives 10% passive Leech. Feral Druid got a dps gain from using Healing Touch in their rotation and it could be used free and instant every 6-7 seconds. Ret Pally has Flash Heal. Warriors have enraged regen. Enh Shaman has Healing Surge. WW Monks have Effuse to heal themselves. So of all the melee only Demon Hunter can't heal themselves of all the classes only Arcane/Frost Mage and Havoc can't heal themselves. At least Frost/Arcane Mage have a massive shield that they can put up. So really your argument is invalid and you're making yourself look like a moron.

Eye beam stack with Soul Rending, meaning a strong heal every 45seconds.
Blur talent is actually strong if you are not gettin sustained damage to get at 30% or less too frequently.
Besides that, you can get Demonic Appetite. Which it seems it heals you for 10% maxHP(haven't tested it myself tho).
There's also darkness but i don't think it's good enough to count.

Yes, we have alot less healing than any other class. but thats because we are actually supposed to not take damage with our increased mobility.

But yes, i miss the "OHSHIT BUTTON" and sometimes i find myself in a situation where i'm at 30%- HP for quite sometime and have to be extra-careful until i get a heal. But mostly because of my own fault.

[Deleted]

Yes, we have alot less healing than any other class. but thats because we are actually supposed to not take damage with our increased mobility.

Not to sound rude but how is a melee class supposed to not take damage when almost all raid mechanics that do not kill you in mythic are designed to stress healers and apply unavoidable damage, and in pvp half of the classes can hit you for 40 yds, and the others also being melee mean you cannot do damage if you're off in the distance.

[Zyky]

Not to sound rude but how is a melee class supposed to not take damage when almost all raid mechanics that do not kill you in mythic are designed to stress healers and apply unavoidable damage, and in pvp half of the classes can hit you for 40 yds, and the others also being melee mean you cannot do damage if you're off in the distance.

This right here, Mythic raiding is designed to have damage that you can't avoid, even with amazing mobility. Also our advantage in mobility to other melee classes is countered to most other melee having strong abilities that they can spam from far away. Like Shadowstrike for Sub, most enh non-maelstrom consuming abilities, howling blast/outbreak/gripping shadows for DKs is also good if you're constantly out of melee range to just name a few.

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Eye beam stack with Soul Rending, meaning a strong heal every 45seconds.
Blur talent is actually strong if you are not gettin sustained damage to get at 30% or less too frequently.
Besides that, you can get Demonic Appetite. Which it seems it heals you for 10% maxHP(haven't tested it myself tho).
There's also darkness but i don't think it's good enough to count.

Yes, we have alot less healing than any other class. but thats because we are actually supposed to not take damage with our increased mobility.

But yes, i miss the "OHSHIT BUTTON" and sometimes i find myself in a situation where i'm at 30%- HP for quite sometime and have to be extra-careful until i get a heal. But mostly because of my own fault.

Demonic Appetite is currently a dps loss over the other 2 talents. Eye Beam again, relying on a dps cooldown to heal isn't a good concept because no one is going to save it for an "oh shit I'm low" moment. You should never be going under 30% frequently, the design of the talent is garbage. We need an actual heal, something that's a dps loss to use, but doesn't require a shit talent to have.

[eScar95]

they just need to believe in themselves.

raaaaa-merica!

[FobManX]

The soul fragments are nice but I feel like they don't spawn often enough and too many times they're just too hard to see. Now granted I've really only been doing invasions since making my DH, but with all that clutter, it can be hard to see little purple orbs. .

[Lex Icon]

The soul fragments are nice but I feel like they don't spawn often enough and too many times they're just too hard to see. Now granted I've really only been doing invasions since making my DH, but with all that clutter, it can be hard to see little purple orbs. .

that is why it is a dumbass idea.. as soon as you've got more than a handfull enemies around you .. you wont see these things.

[Bosen]

I laughed much harder than I should have for this

I knew it was bad,but I was hoping someone would enjoy it.

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raaaaa-merica!

XD I totally went for it.

[Lucreta]

Meta leech will be more than enough for rares. The orbs are actually insane healing while questing\world quests. Like it honestly puts them, in my book, well above any other class i've played, i'd take healing orbs over like a WW heal or ret heal.

My rogue could easily solo things better than my DH could with Crimson Vial. You don't get Meta Leech until 104 and the orbs from the talent we can get now are incredibly random on whether they will drop or not. Without things to kill you get no guaranteed orbs and if you don't use that talent in the second row you don't even get that.

I'm not saying their healing at 110 isn't fairly decent, but it pales in comparison to multiple specs that can well outheal them. Ret with the Healing strike can heal for WAY more than what the DH can, especially if they get a couple DP procs during a fight, plus they have other self heals/defensive CDs that DH simply don't have.

[Emek]

My rogue could easily solo things better than my DH could with Crimson Vial. You don't get Meta Leech until 104 and the orbs from the talent we can get now are incredibly random on whether they will drop or not. Without things to kill you get no guaranteed orbs and if you don't use that talent in the second row you don't even get that.

I'm not saying their healing at 110 isn't fairly decent, but it pales in comparison to multiple specs that can well outheal them. Ret with the Healing strike can heal for WAY more than what the DH can, especially if they get a couple DP procs during a fight, plus they have other self heals/defensive CDs that DH simply don't have.

I was making my comment in regards to leveling\world quests\solo content. Everything i killed while leveling dropped a soul, 100% of the time. And considering i pull 3+ mobs at a time, that's healing like 90~% of my health.

[Thelxi]

It's not as shit as you would think now in the prepatch, but contrary to short-sighted belief orbs are entirely pointless once you are done leveling, which is pretty damn soon. They are next to useless in pvp, and entirely useless killing things that do not give XP. I did do some testing though and the appetite talent that spawns lesser orbs (15% health) does spawn orbs when you attack low level stuff.

While not terrible, self-healing requires a lot of talent investment and is a bit below mediocre at best. If self-healing is something you value, it is something to consider before maining DH.

[Rekuja]

Demonic Appetite needs a buff... increase drop chance, make it heal for an extra 20% imo.

[Deleted]

Apparently you don't know how to read. I said I haven't done LFR in a while and that people died on Blackhand when I use to do it and I had to heal myself to stay alive on it. So I really don't see how you would be "making fun of me". Should probably learn to read posts in full before you make yourself look like a moron.

As for an entire row of literally nothing, Blur only activating sub 35%, immune to damage but can't attack, and leech during a 5 minute cooldown, how are any of those sustainable? In what world do you live in thinking that any of those are good. None of them in the row "help us where we need it". Not a single Demon Hunter in the world who does serious progression raiding is going to save their dps cooldown to heal themselves up. Blur activating at a low health % is just plain awful. And Netherwalk does nothing, it replaces blur, increases the cooldown, and makes it so you can't do anything while its active. None of these are going to help players keep themselves alive when they need to.

They need something they can hit as an "oh shit my health is low and I'm not getting any heals". Like how DKs have Death Strike, its a dps loss and not used in the normal rotation, but it can save a DK from dying. Rogues with the new Vial spell or the old Recoup, rogues use(d) it when they had to dps loss to stay alive, oh ya lets not forget gold ol' Leeching Posion that gives 10% passive Leech. Feral Druid got a dps gain from using Healing Touch in their rotation and it could be used free and instant every 6-7 seconds. Ret Pally has Flash Heal. Warriors have enraged regen. Enh Shaman has Healing Surge. WW Monks have Effuse to heal themselves. So of all the melee only Demon Hunter can't heal themselves of all the classes only Arcane/Frost Mage and Havoc can't heal themselves. At least Frost/Arcane Mage have a massive shield that they can put up. So really your argument is invalid and you're making yourself look like a moron.

I would love to get into this with someone that doesn't have to throw insults to make themselves feel heard, so I will just say this. I disagree with you as I have made obvious in previous posts. From my testing, on my end, as a half decent player, I am fine. Blur and health pots are enough for me. Alongside with our mobility on top of that! Any more would be stepping into the OP range.

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I was making my comment in regards to leveling\world quests\solo content. Everything i killed while leveling dropped a soul, 100% of the time. And considering i pull 3+ mobs at a time, that's healing like 90~% of my health.

Yea that is how I level and do quests. AoE them down and then nuke the lowest health target for a quick pickup on health.

[Ribesal]

Demonic Appetite is not about self heal, it's about soul fragments without the need to kill something.
There's an artifact trait (Feast on the Souls) which reduces the cooldown of Chaos Nova and Eye Beam by 5 seconds everytime you collect a soul fragment. Yes, even small ones.
Combined with the set bonus (20% more fury generation, +10% crit on chaos strike) and the legendary ring (+1-20 fury from demon's bite) i guess it will be quite good.

If we have a fight where we can cleave most of the time, the chaos cleave talent will make your chaos strike more or less a fury generator.
Both hits crit: 40 fury back (48 with set bonus) and maybe 30 (36) for the fragment, so you use 40 fury, but get 84 back.
More Chaos Strikes -> more soul fragments -> more Eye Beams -> more meta (100% leech talent ;D) -> more haste -> more Chaos Strikes -> profit?

[EliteNightKnight]

I would love to get into this with someone that doesn't have to throw insults to make themselves feel heard, so I will just say this. I disagree with you as I have made obvious in previous posts. From my testing, on my end, as a half decent player, I am fine. Blur and health pots are enough for me. Alongside with our mobility on top of that! Any more would be stepping into the OP range.

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Yea that is how I level and do quests. AoE them down and then nuke the lowest health target for a quick pickup on health.

Yeah, because wow=only solo leveling. What about pvp, raiding, dungeons? Zyky made a very clear statement, that every melee in game, except for DH, has somekind of heal/sustain. Most of these abilities don't have cd and all of them not in talent tree, they can be activated at any time. They don't heal a lot, but it is something.

DH is forced to pick two talents in order to have somekind of healing + this kind of sustain has 45 sec CD + you need target and resources (fury) to get some healing.

Again, what most people trying to say - DH needs small passive/active selfhealing. At least something. I'm not saying "give us Lay on Hands with 10 sec cd".
Maybe small passive leech from autoattacks, just like frost dk talent (shield from autoattacks);
or active, zero cost, moderate cd healing similar to crimson vial;
or instant heal with high fury cost, that will serve as emergency button with dps loss (but hey, dead DH can't dps), or I can use it immediately after raid mechanic to help healers a little bit.
or talent that swaps blur with healing/leeching active/passive ability

My opinion is - Soul rending talent should be reworked to something from my suggestion list.

[Deleted]

It sucks because it sucks for every other class that's not a healer as well. Everyone had their self-sustain nerfed.

[Deleted]

Yeah, because wow=only solo leveling. What about pvp, raiding, dungeons? Zyky made a very clear statement, that every melee in game, except for DH, has somekind of heal/sustain. Most of these abilities don't have cd and all of them not in talent tree, they can be activated at any time. They don't heal a lot, but it is something.

DH is forced to pick two talents in order to have somekind of healing + this kind of sustain has 45 sec CD + you need target and resources (fury) to get some healing.

Again, what most people trying to say - DH needs small passive/active selfhealing. At least something. I'm not saying "give us Lay on Hands with 10 sec cd".
Maybe small passive leech from autoattacks, just like frost dk talent (shield from autoattacks);
or active, zero cost, moderate cd healing similar to crimson vial;
or instant heal with high fury cost, that will serve as emergency button with dps loss (but hey, dead DH can't dps), or I can use it immediately after raid mechanic to help healers a little bit.
or talent that swaps blur with healing/leeching active/passive ability

My opinion is - Soul rending talent should be reworked to something from my suggestion list.

Yea because I said it WoW was nothing but levelling and solo? He made a compelling reason... Sure if you want to go back to where all specs and classes are homogenised .... For my response read the conversations I had with that little angry man. I refuse to repeat myself again.

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It sucks because it sucks for every other class that's not a healer as well. Everyone had their self-sustain nerfed.

Exactly this. All heals a melee have are weak.

[Twistedelmo]

Only played Vengeance in Beta
Question: Does eye beam trigger meta leech?

[Deleted]

if you dont live through questing, do it as vengeance ...you wont die ....ever. simple as that. and store artifact power for your havoc spec.