Why do Jaina and Genn get so much shit?

[Deleted]

All the time I see people giving Jaina and Genn shit for being "Warmongers", but their reasons for hating the Horde are fairly justified.

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

Genn has his city destroyed and raided by the Forsaken, and his son killed by Sylvanas, with Sylvanas as the new Warchief, I can't imagine he'll want peace with the Horde.

Fairly good reasons. Then you have Sylvanas, who everyone seems to love, who just does whatever, essentially becoming like the Lich King. - "The difference warchief, is that I serve the Horde"

Garrosh who has his little fanclub, who was wrecking havoc because "muh orcish horde". The Horde are much worse for instigating war, yet its Jaiana and Genn who get criticized for holding some pretty justified grudges.

[Deleted]

When a character turns stronger and wiser due to hardships, we call it character development.

When a character gets more jaded and pragmatic and renounces some of their past ideals due to hardships, we call it bad writing.

Jaina and Genn are that bad writing. The extreme hardships of losing their family, their land, their friends and family to a clear enemy should have only turned them into better, kinder, more loving people. Just look what happened with Sylvanas after a similar ordeal.

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh

For all intents and purposes it was the Horde military, using Horde equipment, acting on orders from the Horde supreme commander, not just "Garrosh". Theramore got wrecked in Pandaria pre-patch, Garrosh ruled the Horde for almost an entire expansion afterwards, and it's not what he got deposed for (the coup would have never worked out if his "orcish superiority" policy didn't turn more and more insane as time went on. Theramore reaction was just "well, that was kind of extreme, but LOK'TAR!!!").

[Usagi Senshi]

Its just sad seeing bad characters and writing come into play just to fuel an unnecessary faction war for the series RTS beginnings that haven't been in play for 12+ years.

That plus I still can't stand seeing a server player base split by factions anymore, its just a huge waste at this point tbh.

[Deleted]

Anduin, his new king

Idiot or not, Genn is a king. He doesn't "have" a king. Even if Anduin is made the High King for some reason (supreme military commander), the nations of the Alliance are supposed to be sovereign and can listen to him or not if they choose.

With that out of the way... Alliance and the Horde were actively murdering one another literally right on the Lich King's doorstep, there's little reason to believe anything will be different just because some green shiny dudes come to end the world.

[vilememory]

Jaina I dislike because of piss poor writing, that isn't her fault. Genn I have never liked. The Scourge are spreading help us Genn! Genn was all like 'Screw you guys, I'm building a wall'. Oh shit worgen curse spreading, well we can deal with that. Fuck Cataclysm, my wall! Who let all these undead in? NOOO! MY SON! THEY ALL MUST DIE! MAH REVENGE!

[FuxieDK]

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

It's funny, how Alliance fanbois always tend to forget three key factors.
1: Jaina allowed Alliance troops to use Theramore for landfall in Kalimdor, while she claimed neutrality
2: Nuking Theramore was partly revenge for Jaina's father, completely unprovoked, slaughtered Camp Turajo, adults and children alike. A camp without any military presence..
3: Nuking Theramore was a brilliant strategic move by Garrosh (probably the only sane thing he have ever done), but honor even compelled him to give the citizens of Theramore a weeks notice of the attack. Any civilian casualties are not his fault.

[Rorke]

When a character turns stronger and wiser due to hardships, we call it character development.

When a character gets more jaded and pragmatic and renounces some of their past ideals due to hardships, we call it bad writing.

That's an awful way to look at things. So characters in a story aren't allowed to turn heel because its bad writing?

[Typhoria]

He's a king, but he serves THE ALLIANCE. which is RULED by Anduin now. He's disobeying orders and using his resources for some dumb errand while he should be focused on closing the demon gate(Aka the real reason why we go to Stormheim in the first place)

He's the King of Stormwind. The Alliance is a unity of the Dwarves from the Council of Three, Anduin, Genn, Mekkatorque, and Tyrande(Malfurion).

[Deleted]

He's a king, but he serves THE ALLIANCE. which is RULED by Anduin now. He's disobeying orders and using his resources for some dumb errand while he should be focused on closing the demon gate(Aka the real reason why we go to Stormheim in the first place)

The whole Alliance isn't structured like a single nation's army. Anduin cannot order Genn, or Tyrande, or Velen to go to X do Y, like an army sergeant orders a private to clean a lavatory.

If you read up some Blizzard's recent tweets on "high kingdom" they make it quite clear. Best Anduin can do is ask.

[CaptainV]

The same reason Sylvanas gets alot of shit for basically:
- Turning Silverpine into a Forsaken Holiday resort (and killed Kirin'tor mages and an entire kirin'tor town along with gilnean town outside gilneas)
- Turning Hillsbrad into a slime infested waste.
- Turning WPL into a diseased nightmare after the argent crusade and alliance worked to give it some life again.
- Ressurected Galen Trollbane in an effort to take over Arathi that failed.
- Tried to conquer Hinterlands with plague, and was foiled.
- Intended to ressurect allied Horde characters during Siege of Ogrimmar to bolster her own ranks.
- Killed Genn Greymane's son Liam with no real reason but personal amusement.
- Lied to Garrosh about not using plague on Gilneas to turn it into an infested swamp when they realized Worgen couldnt be ressurected.
- Tried to turn her own sister into a forsaken and failed (novel lore).

Theres alot of shit Sylvanas did that gets her crap too, but heres the thing for Genn and Jaina.

Genn Sins:
- Abandoned the Alliance during the second war, third war (a gilnean detachment was sent to hyjal but thats it) and stayed isolated leaving the Alliance to its problems.
- Has many times tried to get revenge on Sylvanas for taking his son, was the only racial leader to consider using the sha when Admiral Rogers suggested they should like Garrosh.
- Has always had a love/hate relationship with Varian though it sort of went better after Wolfheart due to their differences being put aside for a greater good.
- Ignore's Anduin's orders not to seek revenge on the Horde.


Jaina Sins:
- Basically forgets everything she had learned in the third war after Theramore was destroyed, despite completely ignoring most of the Horde war around her until it came to her doorstep.
- Attempted to make Varian -dismantle- the horde.
- Basically commited Stratholme 2.0 against the Bloodelves within Dalaran in revenge after she -tried- to return to peace and Garrosh messed people around in Dalaran.
- Cannot trust the Horde, and will not work with them under any circumstance.
- Will -probably- bring Kul'tiras into the Legion expansion and probably invade the Broken Isles with the intent of destroying Sylvanas and the Legion.


The reasons Genn mostly gets shit is because everyone sees him as the alliance garrosh and the same goes for Jaina. The two are more or less the same in that respect that they want revenge on the Horde (and to some minor extent Moira Bronzebeard who wants to show the Dark Iron can be valeuable as a people to the alliance by destroying the Horde).

Tbh though, im glad we finally get to see the Alliance being the villians. We havent done anything rough yet and truly disasterous, I would like to see the Horde take a hit from the Alliance to balance out the last 3 expansions general hits from the Horde.

Personally, I want Jaina to carpet bomb Thunderbluff to oblivion and thus destroy it completely, since being honest, its one of the only capital cities people would genuinley miss if it was gone.

[HTowN]

Still can't deny the fact that Genn is an idiot. He should have focused his attention to the Legion.

[Airwaves]

Jainas home got nuked, it might have been Garrosh, but the rest of the Horde let it happen, and it's hard to trust a faction that destroyed your home and killed your people.

Because the alliance (ie her) were using theramore as an invasion point into horde lands. If she kept to herself I doubt garrosh would have done anything. But she invaded horde land so garrosh did the right thing and cut the alliance supply line.

[lockybalboa]

Jaina's rage is totally justifiable if you read about what she went through. Most of the QQ about her comes from Horde players though.

[Deleted]

I think that those 2 are currently the best lore characters in the game.

[Airwaves]

Jaina's rage is totally justifiable if you read about what she went through. Most of the QQ about her comes from Horde players though.

She was supplying the alliance a port to invade horde lands... and then it got attacked. What happened to her city was justifiable as well.

[Bigby]

Because Alliance characters who call the Horde out on its shit are very rare, which triggers Horde fanboys because they're not used to the story holding their faction's actions to account beyond a convenient scapegoat instead of telling them how super special and badarse they are... but that they're also good and righteous even whilst they attack the Alliance unprovoked again. LOK'TAR!11!

Also MMO-Champion is notoriously a cesspit for Horde fanboyism. Just look at any Lore thread and Alliance positive posts get drowned out by the Sylvanas Defence Force coming up with some of the most hilariously delusional excuses to defend their waifu at all costs.

People complain about Jaina because they don't like it when a neutral level-headed character gets turned into an unstable homicidal maniac that starts razzia's.

The vast majority of people who dislike Jaina are Horde fans, because she - and Genn - are the only two characters in the whole game who have the sheer audacity to be peeved that the Horde attacks the Alliance unprovoked and gets away with it multiple times. Most Alliance fans like her, because after two expansions of the Horde slaughtering people getting told "oh they're probably good people I guess, don't be mad they just destroyed another town, they're probably good deep down..." it's nice to have a character who doesn't bend over to excuse them.

It's always hysterical to see Horde fanboys call the Alliance 'whiners' but as soon as one Alliance character says so much as a bad word about the Horde you can look forward to literally years of forums being full of "OMG XYZ DESERVED 2 DIE BECUS S/HE SAID A MEAN THING ABOUT TEH HORDE S/HE'S EEVVIILLL!11!1 FIX IT BLIZZ!1"

[Thoughtful Trolli]

Don't forget the most important fail about these characters, sylvanas (After she lost Varimathras) and pretty much the majority of them these days:

Literally no side kick.

Really good characters have a tiny web around them too. Right now the only one that might exist is the racial leader web, which is ridiculous.

At this rate, the Dwarves are #1 and Gelbin Mekkatorque is #2 because he has (or had, not sure) a hostile foil in Gnomeragan.

[Deleted]

Because they're Alliance who don't just sit there and take it from the Horde... well... or at least try to do something about it

And no, characters who go from ''good'' to ''bad'' aren't always shitty characters. If it happens for a good reason, like having your life's work obliterated infront of your face along with countless of innocents, I don't mind. It is why I don't like the Old Gods, all their people are always like ''lel I'm evil now because tentacles and reasons''

Also Stormwind and it's leaders cannot command the other members of the Alliance, they can merely ask.

[lockybalboa]

People complain about Jaina because they don't like it when a neutral level-headed character gets turned into an unstable homicidal maniac that starts razzia's.

You expect her to be calm and level headed after all the crap that she's gone through?

[Bigby]

You expect her to be calm and level headed after all the crap that she's gone through?

Yes, because she's an Alliance character. Don't you know that Alliance characters have to be doormats and excuse everything the Horde does to them or they're EEVIILL and probably D-D-D-D-READLORDS!

All characters must love the Horde, or else they must die for literally being Hitler. If they have a differing opinion it's just bad writing. Also they should die.