Legion: Elemental Specific

[gambit998]

All of this isnt meaningful. We all have to wait for raid logs. Not to mention about possible last minute tuning changes, which could buff/nerf a class.

Not Necessarily, Since leveling speed has a major impact on gearing up. I say that because the quicker you lvl, (With lower downtime) the quicker you can get to Heroics ect. More Tuning should be done for the Leveling Process. I mean if my mage who is an alt in PVP gear is able to global a mob where my shaman takes 3 spells to do so there is a problem.

In Conclusion tho: I like locks and Shamans, if you are looking for better survability lock is your answer and most probably higher damage in the long run. (Pure) vs. Average damage numbers, really high burst and almost non existant survability but can self heal...badly. Go Elemental. (Hybrid)

[Deleted]

Not Necessarily, Since leveling speed has a major impact on gearing up. I say that because the quicker you lvl, (With lower downtime) the quicker you can get to Heroics ect. More Tuning should be done for the Leveling Process. I mean if my mage who is an alt in PVP gear is able to global a mob where my shaman takes 3 spells to do so there is a problem.

In Conclusion tho: I like locks and Shamans, if you are looking for better survability lock is your answer and most probably higher damage in the long run. (Pure) vs. Average damage numbers, really high burst and almost non existant survability but can self heal...badly. Go Elemental. (Hybrid)

U have a pont. Warlocks looks overall better in terms of survability, and they were always a higher dps than most other, atm it was confusing for me to choose

[Algoma0]

Not Necessarily, Since leveling speed has a major impact on gearing up. I say that because the quicker you lvl, (With lower downtime) the quicker you can get to Heroics ect. More Tuning should be done for the Leveling Process. I mean if my mage who is an alt in PVP gear is able to global a mob where my shaman takes 3 spells to do so there is a problem.

I couldnt disagree more. Leveling has basically no impact on gearing up. You have 3 (three!) weeks before mythic starts. That's more than enough time to get the best available gear in every slot for anyone who tries hard. For anyone else, it doesn't really matter if you have 850 or 855.

It's obviously nice to level faster, but it doesn't have a "major impact" on the gearing process.

[freddy090909]

I couldnt disagree more. Leveling has basically no impact on gearing up. You have 3 (three!) weeks before mythic starts. That's more than enough time to get the best available gear in every slot for anyone who tries hard. For anyone else, it doesn't really matter if you have 850 or 855.

It's obviously nice to level faster, but it doesn't have a "major impact" on the gearing process.

Additionally, if you are in a group that is really serious about leveling asap, you'll be doing everything in a party, where class differences mean very little in terms of speed. The primary goal for leveling in this expansion will just be to clear out each zone, getting 110 is trivial.

[Kralljin]

Not Necessarily, Since leveling speed has a major impact on gearing up. I say that because the quicker you lvl, (With lower downtime) the quicker you can get to Heroics ect. More Tuning should be done for the Leveling Process. I mean if my mage who is an alt in PVP gear is able to global a mob where my shaman takes 3 spells to do so there is a problem.

Any person who really cares about gearing ASAP levels as a 5man grp with tank and healer to run dungeons once you hit 110.

Besides, zones will be full anyway during levelling on the first day, you spend more time running around and just tagging stuff rather than actually killing it yourself.

[binkenstein]

Yeah bink, I know that you knew it was more complicated I just think in this instance the conclusion you've drawn is a bit off. Don't get me wrong I normally defer to you and suggest people look at your guides before asking me any particular questions about ele.

No math being required, despite reducing the total % of crits and thus the total% of uptime of elemental focus, haste will increase the raw number of casts that are buffed by elemental focus. Additionally as a secondary effect of increasing the amount of non crit casts, will also increase the effectiveness of those gained focus procs, by reducing the likelihood they will be wasted.

Crit and haste should additively combine to our dps, and I think the post on stats is misleading people as I have already seen people lament on this point. Mastery is the only real problem and the fix being to make it also affect our spenders helps with both the intra class balancing of relative power of spells, but also makes it easier to balance elemental against other specs. PVP tuning knobs now being separate should allow elemental to come out of the dark ages where multistrike / mastery has kept us down because of 'oh noes teh pvpz!'

Yes, haste does increase the raw number of crits, but it decreases the overall crit rate which means proportionally fewer Focus charges. Plus, as I said before, you can't have a charged based buff go over 100% effectiveness. They do combine, there's just a smaller negative feedback loop which makes haste worth less than you'd expect.

The problem with Mastery is that rather than having 2 chances to generate 100% of the resources of the main cast (which are each ~5.26% of the total) it's 1 chance to generate 75% of the resources of the main cast (which is 6-8% of the total). So not only are Overloads generating proportionally less resources vs the main cast, it's usually fewer resources than Multistrikes generated too. Combine that with the fact that overloading spells do proportionally less damage now than in WoD or MoP and that's why Mastery is so weak.

[gambit998]

Yes, haste does increase the raw number of crits, but it decreases the overall crit rate which means proportionally fewer Focus charges. Plus, as I said before, you can't have a charged based buff go over 100% effectiveness. They do combine, there's just a smaller negative feedback loop which makes haste worth less than you'd expect.

The problem with Mastery is that rather than having 2 chances to generate 100% of the resources of the main cast (which are each ~5.26% of the total) it's 1 chance to generate 75% of the resources of the main cast (which is 6-8% of the total). So not only are Overloads generating proportionally less resources vs the main cast, it's usually fewer resources than Multistrikes generated too. Combine that with the fact that overloading spells do proportionally less damage now than in WoD or MoP and that's why Mastery is so weak.

Um in MOP as far as i recall overload is/was exactly the same as what we have now. Then it was Mastery/Haste. I could be wrong. But i cannot find the original wording on our MOP overload. But reading the current Mastery tooltip it sounds EXACTLY the same. (Again i could be wrong. Correct me if it is wrong please)


As a Laymen: I cast 1 spell that generates X Maelstrom it dupilicates and gives me Y Maelstrom because of my mastery. With decent haste i can be hard casting more spells. Therefore i would be generating more maelstrom to build it quicker the higher my mastery and haste would be. We gain no Additional benefit from a critting spell in Maelstrom Generation. (This is why i dont understand the point other than Ascendance to have high crit.) Not even factoring in Vers (I hate that stat but it is important i know.)

[Gaucho-]

Um in MOP as far as i recall overload is/was exactly the same as what we have now. Then it was Mastery/Haste. I could be wrong. But i cannot find the original wording on our MOP overload. But reading the current Mastery tooltip it sounds EXACTLY the same. (Again i could be wrong. Correct me if it is wrong please)

He actually means the resources generated by Overload procs. In MoP we had generally less Fulmination stacks. In SoO they increased it, followed by WoD increase plus Overloads also generating stacks. But now Overloads only generate 75% of the MS the main cast generates, on top of a bigger resource pool.

[Deleted]

how are ele shamans currently comparing to other ranged classes in the current beta build?

in WoD playing ele shaman perfect would still land you in bottom half of dps charts,

that still the case?

[Morg]

how are ele shamans currently comparing to other ranged classes in the current beta build?

in WoD playing ele shaman perfect would still land you in bottom half of dps charts,

that still the case?

Short answer middle of the pack

Long answer wait for 50% to come tell you to re-roll, 50% to say everything is fine and then argue about it for another 30 pages

[miffy23]

Short answer middle of the pack

Long answer wait for 50% to come tell you to re-roll, 50% to say everything is fine and then argue about it for another 30 pages

I don't really see anyone claiming that everything is fine. Similarly the only calls for re-rolls are if you care about being able to rank fotm DPS for the Tier or are planning on raiding highly competitively and are seeking to secure your spot as ranged DPS.

[Deleted]

Short answer middle of the pack

Long answer wait for 50% to come tell you to re-roll, 50% to say everything is fine and then argue about it for another 30 pages

I don't really see anyone claiming that everything is fine. Similarly the only calls for re-rolls are if you care about being able to rank fotm DPS for the Tier or are planning on raiding highly competitively and are seeking to secure your spot as ranged DPS.

so if you are seeking to secure a spot as ranged dps.

ele is a no?

[Deleted]

so if you are seeking to secure a spot as ranged dps.

ele is a no?

Depends of the lvl of your guild and how your officers think of you.

[Deleted]

Depends of the lvl of your guild and how your officers think of you.

lol ok buddy.

[Deleted]

lol ok buddy.

What's wrong with that answer? Long gone are the days of classes being refused because of their spec in general, everyone can raid now. The only guilds who refuse specs are world leading progression guilds. If your average scrub guild doesn't take you for being ele, find a new guild.

[Kralljin]

so if you are seeking to secure a spot as ranged dps.

The only secure spots are mage / warlock / hunter.

[Jotaux]

What's wrong with that answer? Long gone are the days of classes being refused because of their spec in general, everyone can raid now. The only guilds who refuse specs are world leading progression guilds. If your average scrub guild doesn't take you for being ele, find a new guild.

Because the answer was "Join a guild beneath you so you can look decent because you are playing a shitty spec."

[jearle]

Has there been any discussion on Optimal Artifact path for Elemental? So far I have this planned but am curious if there has been discussion or math done on the issue, I could not find anything on Binkensteins blog or elsewhere for that matter.

Going to go the top route and pick up Elementalist and then make my way down toward PoTM and nab Static Overload with the first 13 (easy) traits. My planned progression path from here was to move towards Fury of the Storms because of the flat dmg increase to LB and nature spells.

This looks to be the most sensible path for the first 20 traits but i am curious what the next step from here is. Work on the next 7 for volcanic inferno (getting earth shock buff along the way) or drop 4 to pick up Master of the elements (getting CL buff along the way). The cost really starts to ramp up at this point so i am curious what the thoughts are on this.

If it has been discuss somewhere i apologize and please point me in the correct direction. Also is there an elemental discord channel by chance?

[Gaucho-]

Has there been any discussion on Optimal Artifact path for Elemental? So far I have this planned but am curious if there has been discussion or math done on the issue, I could not find anything on Binkensteins blog or elsewhere for that matter.

Going to go the top route and pick up Elementalist and then make my way down toward PoTM and nab Static Overload with the first 13 (easy) traits. My planned progression path from here was to move towards Fury of the Storms because of the flat dmg increase to LB and nature spells.

This looks to be the most sensible path for the first 20 traits but i am curious what the next step from here is. Work on the next 7 for volcanic inferno (getting earth shock buff along the way) or drop 4 to pick up Master of the elements (getting CL buff along the way). The cost really starts to ramp up at this point so i am curious what the thoughts are on this.

If it has been discuss somewhere i apologize and please point me in the correct direction. Also is there an elemental discord channel by chance?

Elemental Artifact Trait Path by Binkenstein

Have fun.

[jearle]

Elemental Artifact Trait Path by Binkenstein

Have fun.

Thank you for the link.