No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[4dahorde]

Since everything indicates Legion is going to be WoD 2.0, whatever little content you want to "enjoy", will soon feel like beating your head on the wall.

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A fair point: How many invasions one must fight in order to complete the set?

I have played the beta..for many months. Legion is in NO WAY WoD 2.0....no idea where you get your information. Legion could possibly be the best expansion for my playstyle since BC.

But hey, if you want to think that, and not play it..doesn't hurt my feelings one bit.

[SirCowdog]

TBH, I don't care if people on the internet..specifically ANY game forum adds me to any sort of ignore list.

I have read most, if not all the reasons given in the past 500 threads on this topic. Most are nothing more than a personal idea on how they want to play the game. Flying is completely unnecessary for this game to function, yet some people act like it is the end all and be all of their enjoyment of the game. I can not and likely will never understand why flying on a mount as opposed to running on the ground is this big a deal to people, no matter how many posts I read about it. All flying does is make getting to things faster...in a game that is MEANT TO TAKE TIME to get things achieved. ALL flying does is make content more insignificant faster...then people will be bitching there is nothing to do. There is seriously NOTHING in any post I have ever read that is anything more than a personal preference on a means of travel.

I am in no way spouting hate or trolling...I simply disagree with peoples opinions..you said it "free country". I am able to disagree with what you are saying, as you are with what I am saying. The problem is..when I disagree in a topic that is FULL of pro-flyers, I am being a troll. The only opinion that matters in this discusion is the pro-flyers.

Maybe if you people would stop complaining on the forums, and bashing every person that disagrees with you, maybe YOU will see there is alot more to the enjoyment of the game outside of flying around on a flying mount. The world looks so much bigger and exciting from the ground instead of looking at it from the tree tops.

Look at the tone of your post earlier in the thread. You opened with a dismissive attitude, then went on to male a bunch assumptions about the current discussion(which were wrong, BTW), and even admitted to not reading.

What exactly were we supposed to think?

Since it seems you're reading now, let me go ahead and provide you with some more up-to-date info , to help dispel some of the false assumptions you seem to be laboring under.

First, we don't simply want flight so we can just skip past and cheat the content. We want the content to take flying into account so that it doesn't break just because we're using the mounts we gathered over 7-8 years.

Second: many of us want the game to continue to use the flying that's been a part of the game for those same 7-8 years because it's what we've come to think of and expect wow to be. Blizzard is trying to put the genie back in the bottle.

Third: I agree flying is not absolutely necessary to the game. But neither is fishing, dungeons, pvp, raids, add-ons, quest tracking, or mouse movement. Just because something isn't absolutely necessary doesn't mean it has no value.

Fourth: It's clear that there are just as many people who like flying as those that like grounded content. The two are not mutually exclusive, and I think you'll find that most people who want flight also want better ground content. One of the most recent discussions was coming to that conclusion, with sever good ideas on how to implement the concept.

Lastly: This is not a simple issue, and breaking it down into stereotypes doesn't help anything. I welcome intelligent, we'll written posts from people who promote the ground game. A lot of my current view of a mixed approach has been refined from such posts, even though I disagree with a ground only design. But posts that just mindlessly lash out at an opinion that isn't liked doesn't help anything.

So, welcome to the discussion. Post wisely.

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A fair point: How many invasions one must fight in order to complete the set?

Hmm...maybe 3-4, depending on how lucky you get with drops. Costs 200 shards to buy the item to unlock the full set appearance, and you can get about 50 per invasion pretty easily.

[Connll]

I have played the beta..for many months.

*Many* months. Alright mate. How convincing.

Legion is in NO WAY WoD 2.0...

Lol.

Legion could possibly be the best expansion for my playstyle since BC.

"Enjoy".

[4dahorde]

*Many* months. Alright mate. How convincing.



Lol.


"Enjoy".

I did not write down on my calendar the day I began. I started the beta sometime in April. Like it matters.


What makes you think it is...the ONLY thing that even REMOTELY resembles ANYTHING in WoD is the mission table..and in "many" months of playing the beta, I spent a grand total of maybe an hour at that table.


I plan to.

You obviously have NOTHING intelligent to add to this particular exchange based on this response, so my time is not worth responding any further to your nonsense.

[Connll]

What makes you think it is...the ONLY thing that even REMOTELY resembles ANYTHING in WoD is the mission table..and in "many" months of playing the beta, I spent a grand total of maybe an hour at that table.

Lol.

Suuuuure mate.

You obviously have NOTHING intelligent to add to this particular exchange based on this response, so my time is not worth responding any further to your nonsense.

I wish anti-fliers were able of let go of their projection...

[Lumineus]

Unless you were suggesting unlimited teleportation without cooldown? I did that in City of Heroes and it was kind of fun, honestly, but never gave the same feeling of freedom and enjoyment that flying did.

Has flying a cooldown?

I think in order to understand his point, you have to understand how teleportation worked in CoH. It wasn't instant transit to a point on the map, it was more like Blink, except it worked in all three dimensions and provided you with a short hover buff. So you would just keep spam-blinking your way across the map Nightcrawler-style. This was balanced by the fact that it cost a lot of endurance, so you basically couldn't fight and teleport at the same time unless you had high level equips, and at that point it was no more powerful than any other travel skill, except maybe super-jump which was novel but lame. Actually super speed (the "ground mount") was the munchkin power because it gave a substantial dodge buff while active and increased your con to mobs so they couldn't detect you unless you stood right on top of them.

[rebecca191]

TBH, I don't care if people on the internet..specifically ANY game forum adds me to any sort of ignore list.

I have read most, if not all the reasons given in the past 500 threads on this topic. Most are nothing more than a personal idea on how they want to play the game. Flying is completely unnecessary for this game to function, yet some people act like it is the end all and be all of their enjoyment of the game. I can not and likely will never understand why flying on a mount as opposed to running on the ground is this big a deal to people, no matter how many posts I read about it. All flying does is make getting to things faster...in a game that is MEANT TO TAKE TIME to get things achieved. ALL flying does is make content more insignificant faster...then people will be bitching there is nothing to do. There is seriously NOTHING in any post I have ever read that is anything more than a personal preference on a means of travel.

I am in no way spouting hate or trolling...I simply disagree with peoples opinions..you said it "free country". I am able to disagree with what you are saying, as you are with what I am saying. The problem is..when I disagree in a topic that is FULL of pro-flyers, I am being a troll. The only opinion that matters in this discusion is the pro-flyers.

Maybe if you people would stop complaining on the forums, and bashing every person that disagrees with you, maybe YOU will see there is alot more to the enjoyment of the game outside of flying around on a flying mount. The world looks so much bigger and exciting from the ground instead of looking at it from the tree tops.

And that's where individual opinions come in. It's subjective which way the world looks better. I think it looks better from the air, it feels very claustrophobic and isolated, with such a limited view from the ground. The zones honestly may as well all have been on separate continents and not attached to each other, I literally never traveled on my own from one zone to another, I got to all of them via the FP I automatically was given from Dalaran. Highmountain was a beautiful zone, which I leveled through on beta, yet I honestly don't even feel like I saw half of it even though I completed the full storyline. Honestly, getting to max level felt anticlimactic if anything. All the damn mobs leveled up along with me and travel is just as much of a pain as before, even if you grind the rep to get the whistle to teleport back to the FP after questing it would save very little time over hearthing and taking a FP from Dalaran. I basically lost interest at 110 because it was the same old and I didn't feel any more powerful or like I achieved anything from getting to max level.

Just to say something positive, I did really enjoy the storyline and if flying patch is on the PTR within a timeframe that is acceptable to me (it would need to be less than a year, closer to 6-9 months) I will likely purchase the expac and start working on the achievements at that point. If it's a lot longer than that, I'm just going to wait until it's free. I can't raid anymore because of real life obligations, so playing it late makes no difference to me if it means a better, more enjoyable experience.

[SirCowdog]

I think in order to understand his point, you have to understand how teleportation worked in CoH. It wasn't instant transit to a point on the map, it was more like Blink, except it worked in all three dimensions and provided you with a short hover buff. So you would just keep spam-blinking your way across the map Nightcrawler-style. This was balanced by the fact that it cost a lot of endurance, so you basically couldn't fight and teleport at the same time unless you had high level equips, and at that point it was no more powerful than any other travel skill, except maybe super-jump which was novel but lame. Actually super speed (the "ground mount") was the munchkin power because it gave a substantial dodge buff while active and increased your con to mobs so they couldn't detect you unless you stood right on top of them.

Yeah, I guess I kinda assumed that reference to CoH teleport would make sense. Thanks for explaining in detail.


IIRC all travel powers in that game slowed down drastically when in combat, and also cost enough endurance to not be sustainable very long without REALLY high end gear.

Wonder if something like that could be adapted to wow...

[Deleted]

All the invasions are near a flightpoint. Riding from arathi to hillsbrad as alliance is probably the furthest away - and its a straight path into tarren mill from there

Problem is - they have removed the availability of all flight points from characters at some time. (Because "not intended"... yeah, whatever. Been in the game quite a while, nobody bothered, but now it's suddenly a problem, just like flying. The only problem is, that unlocked flight paths before level 60 and flying when unlocked save us time, and they don't seem to like it.)

So, have fun travelling on foot from IF to TM with a character who has never been there before, because I have done the quests on so many characters in the past 11 years, that I have switched to exclusively instance leveling since WoD.

Honestly, repetition of tedium is a perfect receipe how to kill fun in a game. This is what we have to cope with each and every day of our lives because chores and jobs don't magically go away (as long as you don't have the money to be able to idle around and pay servants to do your bidding). We don't need this in the game save for small doses to simulate a part of this feeling, but not all of it. Some people enjoy simulation games, but this is not everything what RPGs are about. This is the reason why we don't have extensive physical mechanics here, or a in-depth simuation of fatigue of a character (else, your plate wearers would not be able to jump around like Yoda).

The focus lies on the adventure, and on epic heroes, and epic heroes don't have to slog mindlessly through respawns etc. Respawns exists due to the MMO nature of the game, they are not part the RPG aspect. Flying helps to overcome aspects of an MMO which are detrimental to the RPG feeling, besides many other functions and benefits.

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Just to say something positive, I did really enjoy the storyline and if flying patch is on the PTR within a timeframe that is acceptable to me (it would need to be less than a year, closer to 6-9 months) I will likely purchase the expac and start working on the achievements at that point. If it's a lot longer than that, I'm just going to wait until it's free. I can't raid anymore because of real life obligations, so playing it late makes no difference to me if it means a better, more enjoyable experience.

This time frame is a bit long. If they manage to get out a major content patch in that time frame and unlock flying right away, I could accept this, but I expect them to be malevolent at this point in this matter. Honestly, they behave like assholes to all people who like flight.

[wing5wong]

Problem is - they have removed the availability of all flight points from characters at some time. (Because "not intended"... yeah, whatever. Been in the game quite a while, nobody bothered, but now it's suddenly a problem, just like flying. The only problem is, that unlocked flight paths before level 60 and flying when unlocked save us time, and they don't seem to like it.)

So, have fun travelling on foot from IF to TM with a character who has never been there before, because I have done the quests on so many characters in the past 11 years, that I have switched to exclusively instance leveling since WoD.

If you're level 40 (whatever Arathi is these days), and anywhere near TM/arathi though, you will have the flightpath. natural quest progression sends you there.

If you think you should be able to visit all the invasion sites at low levels, whenever you like, that obviously hasnt been the intention. They are there as a bonus, and are entirely optional

[Lastgope]

Since everything indicates Legion is going to be WoD 2.0, whatever little content you want to "enjoy", will soon feel like beating your head on the wall.

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A fair point: How many invasions one must fight in order to complete the set?

A few months into WoD I was bored to death. Few months playing the Legion Beta and I am still having a blast.

You can take the WoD 2.0 and shove it.

[Darkguyver2020]

Since everything indicates Legion is going to be WoD 2.0, whatever little content you want to "enjoy", will soon feel like beating your head on the wall.

I wish anyone that says Legion will be WoD 2.0 would have their hands crushed between two bricks so they can't type out dumb shit like this.

[Connll]

A few months into WoD I was bored to death. Few months playing the Legion Beta and I am still having a blast.

You can take the WoD 2.0 and shove it.

No need to. It seems you have done the job yourself, admirably. Lets just hope you have shoved it down your own throat, and not the other place.

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I wish anyone that says Legion will be WoD 2.0 would have their hands crushed between two bricks so they can't type out dumb shit like this.

Hm. How curious.

Most Internet Tough Guys I have met threathen to do bodily harm () personally.

Now the above specimen seem incapable of that, wishing that others fulfill his masturbation fantasy.

...

Creepy.

[Mafic]

I wish anyone that says Legion will be WoD 2.0 would have their hands crushed between two bricks so they can't type out dumb shit like this.

Legion is going to be WoD 2.0. But most people are too distracted by shinies to realize it so far.

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Problem is - they have removed the availability of all flight points from characters at some time. (Because "not intended"... yeah, whatever. Been in the game quite a while, nobody bothered, but now it's suddenly a problem, just like flying. The only problem is, that unlocked flight paths before level 60 and flying when unlocked save us time, and they don't seem to like it.)

So, have fun travelling on foot from IF to TM with a character who has never been there before, because I have done the quests on so many characters in the past 11 years, that I have switched to exclusively instance leveling since WoD.

Honestly, repetition of tedium is a perfect receipe how to kill fun in a game. This is what we have to cope with each and every day of our lives because chores and jobs don't magically go away (as long as you don't have the money to be able to idle around and pay servants to do your bidding). We don't need this in the game save for small doses to simulate a part of this feeling, but not all of it. Some people enjoy simulation games, but this is not everything what RPGs are about. This is the reason why we don't have extensive physical mechanics here, or a in-depth simuation of fatigue of a character (else, your plate wearers would not be able to jump around like Yoda).

The focus lies on the adventure, and on epic heroes, and epic heroes don't have to slog mindlessly through respawns etc. Respawns exists due to the MMO nature of the game, they are not part the RPG aspect. Flying helps to overcome aspects of an MMO which are detrimental to the RPG feeling, besides many other functions and benefits.

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This time frame is a bit long. If they manage to get out a major content patch in that time frame and unlock flying right away, I could accept this, but I expect them to be malevolent at this point in this matter. Honestly, they behave like assholes to all people who like flight.

The removal of flight points was probably a move done assuming players leveled through dungeons so such a convenience was no longer "necessary". Bad news though is players without heirlooms or level capped characters aka new players experience the game with unneeded time sinks, sheer boredom, and feeling lacking in power compared to players in full heirloom gear once they do decide they want to run some dungeons.

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Which is logical: Once you have done the quest for the lore, the only possible reason to repeat this is the fun factor involved (after all, any gear gotten in those quests will be obsolete in less than a month... assuming is was an upgrade in the first place).

The outcry was so great they reverted some of the changes and increased the XP from taking down the NPCs from the invasion spawn point. Players are not going put up with unneeded time sinks and Legion no flying at launch is going to hit the devs like a tonne of bricks.

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Maybe it would be stupid if all the super duper new content and features would be available for a short perid of time. But that is not the case. I have started playing MoP literally the last month of it's lifecycle after patch 5.4 and didn't feel i missed anything. In fact there have been only advantages: leveling was faster, bugs have been flushed out and all the content was there...... plus i paid 5 bucks for the expansion at a local electronic store.

But to be honest: calling someone stupid because you can't or don't want to understand their reasons to do or not do something is pretty much the definition of being stupid. At least pretty ignorant. Everybody plays for their own reasons. And if they don't like the decision to take their favorite movement mode out of the game for some time, and they think they can enjoy the game more when it is in, than it is totally fine.

You don't need to understand it, as it is simply non of your dawn business. It is Blizzard how is missing out on money, and looking at what happend during WoD i hope they have learned their lessons about flight, no content, forced timed gates on everything and long droughts.

Yeah waiting it out seems the smart decision to me.

First season of PVP has always been a train wreck, and there is still countless bugs.

If their intention is mid expansion than my wallet will stay closed till mid expansion as well. Simple as that.

[Hexxidecimal]

No need to. It seems you have done the job yourself, admirably. Lets just hope you have shoved it down your own throat, and not the other place.

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Hm. How curious.

Most Internet Tough Guys I have met threathen to do bodily harm () personally.

Now the above specimen seem incapable of that, wishing that others fulfill his masturbation fantasy.

...

Creepy.

I am genuinely curious here Connll. Have you played the beta? What part did you find to be WoD 2.0ish? Lastly, have we had this conversation before?

[Darkguyver2020]

I am genuinely curious here Connll. Have you played the beta? What part did you find to be WoD 2.0ish? Lastly, have we had this conversation before?

Don't feed the troll. It's clear these no life WoD 2.0 Doomsayers don't have a clue in their primitive neanderthal brains.

[Connll]

I am genuinely curious here Connll. Have you played the beta?

I have not played the beta. My information comes from:

1-Developer info (Videos, blue posts, patch notes, and the like);

2- Articles about the game;

3- Videos of beta testers playing; as many as I can find.

Alone, those aren´t enough data to make an educated guess. Together, however...

What part did you find to be WoD 2.0ish?

1- The entire no-flight debacle is developing in awfully similar ways to when it did in WoD, up to and including the develpers less than "transparent" approach;

2- The Order Halls are all too similar to Garrisons, down to the mission table;

3- World quests follow a very similar design to Apexis Dailies;

4- The world itself follows a similar maze-like design as Draenor, wtih a few elements that will potentially make it even more frustrating to navigate, namely level scaling (which will make mobs dismount you more), verticalized landscape (wich will make navigation harder), and mob density (in some places, it seems excessive)

5- It has been mentioned more than once, that Legion and WoD started development more-or-less at the same time; if that is true, then it stands to reason that Legion has been designed VERY similarly to WoD. The devs mentioning that they were "happy" with how WoD turned out (ATTENTION: my memory of this particular claim is vague; I might be wrong), also suggests that they see little reason to deviate from WoD´s formula.

Those are the ones i can think right now. Possibly there are others I am overlooking)

Lastly, have we had this conversation before?

I don´t think so.

I am pretty sure I have mentioned those reasosn before, but not specifically to you.

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Don't feed the troll.

Then why are you here begging for attention, Mr. Internet Tough Guy?

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The outcry was so great they reverted some of the changes and increased the XP from taking down the NPCs from the invasion spawn point. Players are not going put up with unneeded time sinks and Legion no flying at launch is going to hit the devs like a tonne of bricks.

This is true, but lets face it: Pre-expansion events are, by nature, temporary, so I doubt the dev team feels passionately about its rules, one way or another.

Can the same be said about Flight? I feel that, like in WoD, they won´t budge until the outcry reaches such an enourmous level that their superiors force their hand. Problem is, there is a good chance that, since WoW has lost so many players, there simply won´t be enough voices.

[Biggles Worth]

if you are quitting the game cause of "NO FLYING" you probably never even played it.. cause you wont quit raiding cause of no flying and you wont quit PVP cause of no flying.. so if you werent raiding nor you were pvping what the heck were you even doing in the game?

For real too. It isn't even like WoWs flying is fun anyways. I'd like for someone to name one time when they were pumped up to log into world of warcraft to go flying. I wouldn't even call it flying anyways, just floating. Much float, very fun, wow. Amiright. The people who log into WoW soley to have fun flying are probably the same group of people who find WoWs fishing fun. People need to have their fun meters checked.

[Hexxidecimal]

I have not played the beta. My information comes from:

1-Developer info (Videos, blue posts, patch notes, and the like);

2- Articles about the game;

3- Videos of beta testers playing; as many as I can find.

Alone, those aren´t enough data to make an educated guess. Together, however...



1- The entire no-flight debacle is developing in awfully similar ways to when it did in WoD, up to and including the develpers less than "transparent" approach;

2- The Order Halls are all too similar to Garrisons, down to the mission table;

3- World quests follow a very similar design to Apexis Dailies;

4- The world itself follows a similar maze-like design as Draenor, wtih a few elements that will potentially make it even more frustrating to navigate, namely level scaling (which will make mobs dismount you more), verticalized landscape (wich will make navigation harder), and mob density (in some places, it seems excessive)

5- It has been mentioned more than once, that Legion and WoD started development more-or-less at the same time; if that is true, then it stands to reason that Legion has been designed VERY similarly to WoD. The devs mentioning that they were "happy" with how WoD turned out (ATTENTION: my memory of this particular claim is vague; I might be wrong), also suggests that they see little reason to deviate from WoD´s formula.

Those are the ones i can think right now. Possibly there are others I am overlooking)



I don´t think so.

I am pretty sure I have mentioned those reasosn before, but not specifically to you.

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Then why are you are begging for attention, Mr. Internet Tough Guy?

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This is true, but lets face it: Pre-expansion events are, by nature, temporary, so I doubt the dev team feels passionately about its rules, one way or another.

Can the same be said about Flight? I feel that, like in WoD, they won´t budge until the outcry reaches such an enourmous level that their superiors force their hand. Problem is, there is a good chance that, since WoW has lost so many players, there simply won´t be enough voices.

Ahhh. Well a few things. I'll only tell you my experience. I have had beta for a bit, one month now I think, maybe only like 3 weeks. Not very long at any rate. I leveled to 110 and have had about two weeks worth of world quests to mess with and messed a plenty with the Order Halls.

Firstly. The mission table is not used much at all. You only have 6 real followers and a bunch of disposable ones if you choose to make them. Over all there are far far fewer actual "quests" to send followers on. It takes up waaaay less time. It's main purpose is progress your order hall quest line which has you out and about doing stuff far more than just staring at the table. It does have optional quests to send your disposable followers on if you like but it's pretty much optional and honestly shouldn't even bother. As it takes up resources to make disposable units that are better spent else where. So the fella who said he only spend an hour at his board, honest to god could be telling you the truth. If all you do is the Order hall missions, it's as simple as walking up to your order hall every 8-48 hours sending your guys on one mission and walking away.

All and all the table/follower system is Garrison Table Ultra Light with a few improvements in that the Order Hall Mission and story line isn't just quests on a board. It also has you doing stuff in the world. Additionally it has attached to it a cool story as well if you are into that (if you don't mind spoilers check out that Death Knight Order Hall Missions stuff for an example). Additionally the other mission content is optional, and not even optimonly optional either. Completely ignorable.

World Quests I can't say aren't like dailies. But lets not act like apexis dailies were something new and bad to WoD. They are just dailies. Like they always have been. That said there are some good things about them and some bad things in regards to world quests.

Pros:
-There are metric ton of them, been doing them for just over a week so far and no repeats.
-They are extremely varied. If you have something you like doing in this game outside of instances, world quests probably have you doing it at one point or another.
-Scale-able rewards are niiice.
-Unlike apexis dailies you can do or not do quests entirely based on the reward it gives you. With Apexis stuff, your goal was apexis, so all the dailies needed to be completed. Not here, which is nice.

Ok onto the Cons.

Cons:
-Quests are spread out, you do far more travelling doing world quests. As you said zones can be dense and some zones can be a bit of a pain to navigate, though I have found it generally less annoying than WoD zones. Most layouts give you a good idea of where you need to head too if you take a moment and look around. Still more travel time + no flying = more annoyance.
-New Questing pace. I think it's safe to say that, in general, not always but in general when you are questing in a zone for the first time it can take a little longer. In part because you dont' know the zone and in part because you don't know the quests. With the many new quests helping to give your day to day a new feel, they also take longer. This can be good or bad depending on you.

The lay of the land is generally, easier to navigate than WoD. The zones are fewer than what WoD had but honestly feel bigger. Or at least better layed out. I had a much easier time navigating every zone in Legion than I did Tanann Jungle. This is my personal opinion however and may not reflect your experience.

In the end I am not trying to convince you, just relating my personal experience and wanted to let you know it's worth trying. In the end it didn't feel like WoD to me. Between the World Quests being over all better than apexis dailies in my experience and Suramar being there at the start, not to mention Mythic + Dungeons which give an ever scaling difficulty with five mans from the get go, it already feels like there is as much end game content as WoD if not more (well except in number of raids). The biggest sin with WoD is that it felt like it was abandoned and half assed. Legion honestly doesn't feel that way to me.

As far as flight is concerned it's planned. When is it planned? No one knows which is a source of annoyance for me. At least this time we don't have to wonder if it's coming, only when.

You should give it a try at least. There is only so much info like videos and developer info can convey without playing it.

[Connll]

In the end I am not trying to convince you, just relating my personal experience and wanted to let you know it's worth trying.

Fair enough.

However, If it is true that Blizz focus is now Box sales and faster expansions instead of long-term commitment (subscriptions), If I buy Legion, the devs have what they want from me. If so, what incentive they have to do better?

In the end it didn't feel like WoD to me. Between the World Quests being over all better than apexis dailies in my experience and Suramar being there at the start, not to mention Mythic + Dungeons which give an ever scaling difficulty with five mans from the get go, it already feels like there is as much end game content as WoD if not more (well except in number of raids). The biggest sin with WoD is that it felt like it was abandoned and half assed. Legion honestly doesn't feel that way to me.

Remember, WoD felt like an awesome expansion in the first month, too. Some time was necessary to see exactly how shallow it actually was.

As far as flight is concerned it's planned. When is it planned? No one knows which is a source of annoyance for me. At least this time we don't have to wonder if it's coming, only when.

The WoW developers are, in a nutshell, being less than transparent towards the playerbase. The question then, is: Is that acceptable?

You should give it a try at least. There is only so much info like videos and developer info can convey without playing it.

I believe the core of your message can be summed as: "Give Legion (and its developers) the benefit of doubt".

But I ask you: after the way the handled WoD, after the way they handled Flight, do they deserve the benefit of doubt?

Trust, once broken, must be earned back. Is they way they are behaving now, enough to earn back yours?