Aetna to exit nearly 7 in 10 Obamacare plans

[Thoughtful Trolli]

It's pretty simple really.

Anyone who decided to start a war with insurance companies before figuring out a way to prevent them from just charging people more to pay for that war is a dipshit.

That's why the socialism healthcare plan people are hated, and rightfully so. Their signature quote right now would be "Oh gosh, I didn't know that they insurance companies could just require everyone to pay them more. Golly jee." Interposed with the potential quote "Yah we know this we wanted this fuck all of you." Which is worse.

[Endus]

It's pretty simple really.

Anyone who decided to start a war with insurance companies before figuring out a way to prevent them from just charging people more to pay for that war is a dipshit.

That's why the socialism healthcare plan people are hated, and rightfully so. Their signature quote right now would be "Oh gosh, I didn't know that they insurance companies could just require everyone to pay them more. Golly jee." Interposed with the potential quote "Yah we know this we wanted this fuck all of you." Which is worse.

I'm not sure you understand what single-payer is.

The insurance companies wouldn't be part of the equation. At all. They'd only cover what few non-essential services aren't covered by the single payer system, things like some prescription coverage (for the secondary meds not covered, like pain meds) or upgrades to a private room if you're admitted, that sort of stuff.

All of which you can pay for out of pocket, without insurance.

Check here, for health insurance quotes for Canada; the three options you get to pick are what kind of dental coverage you want, what kind of prescription coverage, and whether hospital room upgrades are included. That's it. Because everything else is already paid for.

So I'm really not sure what you think the insurance companies are going to do to jack up prices on something they don't have any role in.

[Orlong]

Yeah and if we have single payer, aka "medicare for all" that literally can't happen...

The government will be their ONLY customer... So when the government "lowballs" them... They can either take it or....... Cease to exist as a business.

Thats true, and many will say it isnt worth it. US doctors make 50% more than doctors in the UK and if they took that kind of a paycut they would just quit and then we have a doctor shortage creating longer waits. Its bad enough we are starting to have to wait longer now that the ACA allows more people access to doctors, we dont need more of a shortage

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It's always pretty telling when you contradict your own claims, right in the next sentence.

"Profit margins" are set by greed, fundamentally. In a relatively free market system, prices will be as high as they can expect enough people to pay. Production cost of the good or service only matters for determining when it price reductions render it unprofitable; they do NOT determine price. If they can charge $60,000 for a pill, because it cures cancer, for-profit health care says they should charge $60,000, even if that puts it out of the reach of 99% of those who could benefit from it. Even if said pill costs them $0.30 to produce, even rolling in R&D costs for the sake of argument. And patent laws and such prevent anyone else from reverse-engineering the formula and selling it themselves.

In short, for-profit health care has a face, and that face is Martin Shkreli. If you think that dude's a smarmy greedy asshole, you should have issues with the entire idea of for-profit health care.

But there is a big difference between making a reasonable profit and being a greedy bastard milking all the money that they can out of the customers. Many people here are acting like insurance companies should be a zero profit business where they exist solely to break even.

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You know what the best way to establish preventative care as a concept is?

Don't put barriers between people and going to see their doctor. The costs associated with that, in the USA, are why people let things go until they're urgent. If the trip to the GP costs you nothing, you've got no reason NOT to go, other than potentially wasting your own time.

Sure, you get the occasional hypochondriac who'll waste the doctor's time and the taxpayer's money, but the savings on everyone else for catching stuff early more than offsets that, both in terms of effectiveness and cost.

And if there is no cost barrier, then youll have doctors office packed full of hypochondriacs and people who go to the doctor once a week because they got a small pain or runny nose, which is a waste of services and time that could be used on people that actually need it. There NEEDS to be a disincentive to go to the doctor for every little thing that could be treated with a bottle of Motrin or Nyquil

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I never understood why dental as seen as "optional" and not covered as part of basic health care. You need your teeth to eat properly. An untreated tooth infection can friggin kill you if it reaches your brain. Dental health is just as important as the rest of your body imo. So why does it get separated most of the time?

Because its cheaper to pay for a set of dentures than pay for cleanings, cavities, root canals, braces, xrays, caps, bridges, crowns, implants, and all the other costs having teeth incurs. Most people dont want to pay for dental insurance for 60 years when they can just get their teeth ripped out and get dentures that require little maintenance. All you have to do is put them in a glass of water every night

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

you guys should really copy Canada's healthcare plan. richer Canadians pay more for it, average wealth Canadians pay much less for it, and if u are poor then you dont pay anything. there are no bills unless u need things like glasses/contacts or dental work covered.

I'm in the US, and my plans are already similar to this. I pay almost nothing for healthcare. I pay almost nothing for dental work unless its extreme, and I get a free pair of glass every year; I get special contacts and those are only covered for 9 months out of the year. I just stretch them a little to last the year. I dunno... sounds pretty decent to me.

[Shadowferal]

That's what we have now.

That depends on which state.
I live in NJ and that's nothing as you describe.

[Endus]

But there is a big difference between making a reasonable profit and being a greedy bastard milking all the money that they can out of the customers. Many people here are acting like insurance companies should be a zero profit business where they exist solely to break even.

There is no "difference". Milking the most money out of the customer is exactly what businesses are expected to try to do, in a capitalist system. That's literally what the term "profit motive" means. The ONLY reason a company will lower price is if 1> they can get more customers, and make more profit through greater sales volume, or 2> they have competition they need to undersell to maximize sales. At least, the only reasons if we're talking about capitalist motives; there are plenty of humanitarian reasons they might act against capitalist principles.

And if there is no cost barrier, then youll have doctors office packed full of hypochondriacs and people who go to the doctor once a week because they got a small pain or runny nose, which is a waste of services and time that could be used on people that actually need it. There NEEDS to be a disincentive to go to the doctor for every little thing that could be treated with a bottle of Motrin or Nyquil

I'm not sure why people say things like this. We blatantly know that this stuff is not true, because there are countries that don't have such a cost barrier, like Canada, and this doesn't happen. At least, not in any appreciable volume.

Because its cheaper to pay for a set of dentures than pay for cleanings, cavities, root canals, braces, xrays, caps, bridges, crowns, implants, and all the other costs having teeth incurs. Most people dont want to pay for dental insurance for 60 years when they can just get their teeth ripped out and get dentures that require little maintenance. All you have to do is put them in a glass of water every night

Your argument here is exactly the same as that expressed by Shkreli.

[Shadowferal]

Martin Shkreli? I think we can safely categorize him as "greedy bastard."

Most hated man in the US and no one will mourn him if he dies in prison.

[zEmini]

They arent greedy. They arent non profit organizations. Tylenol cost 12 bucks in a hospital because they need to recoup the costs that they never get from the cheapasses who refuse to buy insurance and go to the emergency room every time they get the sniffles and then never pay

Found one part of the problem right there.

[Orlong]

Found one part of the problem right there.

Would you run a business with no expectations that youll make a profit?

[Vash The Stampede]

Should have voted for Bernie when you had the chance. Hopefully Hillary Clinton is going to do something like Universal Health Care, but I doubt it. The healthcare system is going to crash in America, and the sooner the better. Besides the auto industry which will also crash cause nobody can afford $35k $40k cars, and the housing market will also crash yet again.

I never smoked, never drank, and nowdays I eat salads and hard boiled eggs with a daily dose of resveratrol and astragalus root. And I jog 3 days a week, at night. I don't plan to get sick ever again. I'm prepared for the inevitable health care system crash. No PILLS HERE! for me.

[Endus]

Would you run a business with no expectations that youll make a profit?

You do realize there's an entire sector of business that operates on exactly that principle, right? They're called "non-profits".

It doesn't mean those working there don't draw salaries. It just means that any extra revenue gets rolled back into the business.

[purebalance]

(source)

The best argument for a single-payer health plan is today’s decision by giant health insurer Aetna to stop participating in Obamacare health exchanges in all but four states. If follows a similar move by UnitedHealth Group, the nation's largest insurer. Both say they’re not making enough money because too many people with serious health problems are using the exchanges and not enough healthy people are signing up.

It all proves that a healthcare system run by giant for-profit firms is a system designed to avoid sick people.

Meanwhile, giant health insurers are consolidating into two or three behemoths. Aetna itself is trying to buy Humana. So the real choice for the future is either a public single-payer system or a hugely-expensive for-profit single-payer monopoly that will try to avoid people who need health care.

What do you think?

People who are obese and refuse to treat that as the source of their issues should be able to be denied coverage.

Smokers who refuse to quit and have health issues as a result should be able to be denied coverage.

Obamacare has essentially made it that if I want to get an STD every day of the week I can never be denied coverage or hell if I want to have the STD and only get treated for the problems that arise later(similar to obesity).

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Should have voted for Bernie when you had the chance. Hopefully Hillary Clinton is going to do something like Universal Health Care, but I doubt it. The healthcare system is going to crash in America, and the sooner the better. Besides the auto industry which will also crash cause nobody can afford $35k $40k cars, and the housing market will also crash yet again.

I never smoked, never drank, and nowdays I eat salads and hard boiled eggs with a daily dose of resveratrol and astragalus root. And I jog 3 days a week, at night. I don't plan to get sick ever again. I'm prepared for the inevitable health care system crash. No PILLS HERE! for me.

The healthcare system worked fine before Obamacare.

[Kujako]

The healthcare system worked fine before Obamacare.

Liar? You must know that's not true...

[Theodarzna]

Healthcare should not be a for-profit business, it creates absolutely perverse incentives on absolutely vital services.

[Tinykong]

The healthcare system worked fine before Obamacare.

Going bankrupt because you came down with a rare illness is fine. That'll teach people to be poor.

[Theodarzna]

Would you run a business with no expectations that youll make a profit?

Any business that is effectively a vital service necessary for the enduring survival of a society should not be left up the greedy to manage.

[Vash The Stampede]

The healthcare system worked fine before Obamacare.

The healthcare system before Obamacare was far worse. Remember, you could be denied and you weren't covered as a new insurer until 6 months to a year of making payments. But I don't plan on Hillary Clinton to fix the healthcare system, nor do I expect people like you to understand how stupid it is to let the free market control our health system. A for profit company will always be FOR PROFIT, and they have no regard about your well being.

This is why I'm putting my hope towards technology and not politics. So long as politics and technology stay separate, then I'm totally fine with this situation. Cause once the right technology comes along and has a universal cure for everything, the health insurance companies will crumble and cry foul in the process. The problem is this technology is at least a good 2 decades away from being reachable to the average consumer. Hence why I'm keeping myself as healthy as possible.

[Sykol]

The healthcare system worked fine before Obamacare.

"I just broke my leg, buuuut...I think I'm good not going to the hospital. I'll just walk it off. I'm sure it'll set properly on its own."

People in the US go into debt for having cancer, and after they die their family has to foot the bill for treatment. There isn't any part of that sentence that should exist in a reasonable society.

[Orlong]

"I just broke my leg, buuuut...I think I'm good not going to the hospital. I'll just walk it off. I'm sure it'll set properly on its own."

People in the US go into debt for having cancer, and after they die their family has to foot the bill for treatment. There isn't any part of that sentence that should exist in a reasonable society.

Only if they were cheapskates and never paid for insurance and then tried to buy it after they got cancer or broke their leg. I could get cancer tomorrow and I would be covered in full paying maybe $25 per visit for copays. Hardly bankrupting me. Responsible people who plan for future problems dont have to worry about high medical bills. Everyone else, its their own damn fault for not being responsible and insuring themselves.

Also when someone dies, their families arent responsible for a dime of it. The only thing the families lose is any money that they would have inherited which goes to pay off the debts first and they get any leftover monies.

[I Push Buttons]

Only if they were cheapskates and never paid for insurance and then tried to buy it after they got cancer or broke their leg. I could get cancer tomorrow and I would be covered in full paying maybe $25 per visit for copays. Hardly bankrupting me. Responsible people who plan for future problems dont have to worry about high medical bills. Everyone else, its their own damn fault for not being responsible and insuring themselves.

Also when someone dies, their families arent responsible for a dime of it. The only thing the families lose is any money that they would have inherited which goes to pay off the debts first and they get any leftover monies.

Yeah those cheapskates that insurance companies refused to sell insurance to because of the liability of their pre-existing conditions...