Is killing Demons in the Twisting Nether to banish them forever now irrelevant.

[Dys]

I would think, at the very least, it'd take an intact planet, with a functioning core to be fel-saturated enough for demons to be slain there. Literally a planet with fel coursing through its veins instead of minerals, which happens after it's been thoroughly corrupted. I don't think dead areas would be able to supply the energy they need to maintain their soul's existence in that area.

The Twisting Nether is obviously saturated enough, so there's your marker for how much it takes at most. I don't know much of anything about the lore of the Twisting Nether though, so I can only speculate on how the fel energy is fueled there. But, I don't think that it would be just be a stagnant force, it's most likely originating from some point in there, with that point acting as the fel core that is keeping the energy flowing and alive to be used by the demons.

Just think of it like a battery, if it can't hold a charge, it's useless.

[Qualia]

Sargeras is not a demon.

True. He can still be summoned, though, just like us.

They take their power not their soul.

As for sel saturated areas Outland SHOULD be one since its in the Twisting Nether but Blizz conveniently forgot that because it would mean no Illidan.

It isn't inside the Twisting Nether. It's still - at very least - part of reality. They implied it back in TBC, and more recently, in the "Illidan" book too. Its position probably like Argus, hovering between the Nether and the Great Dark Beyond, but doesn't fully belong to either.

[Ealyssa]

no we dont.
we steal or consume the demons power.
not its soul.

That guys is either a troll or really childish. Pretty obvious now. 10+ people proved him wrong with sources and he's still "nahnahnahnahn I'm right".

[lakisa]

Demon hunters don't take souls of demons, it is their souls morphing/corrupting to demon state that gets alter ego in their minds when they eat demon flesh

[Mjolnir84]

Demon hunters don't take souls of demons, it is their souls morphing/corrupting to demon state that gets alter ego in their minds when they eat demon flesh

In the Illidan novel, it's stated that Demon Hunters kill a demon and consume (read: eat) its heart, in order to bind the demon's soul to the soul of the Demon Hunter.

[purebalance]

True. He can still be summoned, though, just like us.


It isn't inside the Twisting Nether. It's still - at very least - part of reality. They implied it back in TBC, and more recently, in the "Illidan" book too. Its position probably like Argus, hovering between the Nether and the Great Dark Beyond, but doesn't fully belong to either.

No he cannot be summoned.

People really need to learn the difference between PORTAL and SUMMON. Sargeras can only enter via a portal. Archimonde came to HFC via a portal(that Gul'dan only redirected residual DP energies to open not of his own power). In WC3 however, Archimonde was summoned.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

It was their respawn point before Sargeras smashed it, he intentionally made it that so that he could contain them there.
We know therefore that Mardum can't be such a "fel saturated" area that kills demons, because otherwise Sargeras would easily have just killed them instead of imprisoning them. He created it when he wanted to destroy the demons, after all!
Illidan wasn't alive back then :P

When Sargeras abandoned the Pantheon and searched for an army to help him scour the universe of all life and prevent the efforts of the void lords and their Old God creations, he returned to Mardum. Over the eons, the prison had become bloated, the presence of countless demons warping the world into a nightmarish realm constantly bombarded by torrents of fel energy and bathing the captive demons in a sea of volatile magic.

What I meant is that this sounds exactly like what you would assume a "fel-saturated" world would be, except it clearly isn't because nothing that died on it died permanently, so it must mean something more than just "a place where a lot of demons were".
Something separates Mardum (a place a lot of demons were kept) from Argus and Nathreza (a place a lot of demons intentionally lived) which means that they can be killed permanently in one but not the other.


As an aside, demons just reappear "within the twisting nether" and not on their home planet. What exactly this means isn't entirely clear, but I imagine that after "respawning" they have to be summoned back to their homeworld rather than naturally forming there.

They weren't killed in Marduum, were they? They were killed somewhere in the Great Dark and Sargeras somehow trapped them in the pocket dimension of Marduum. AFAIK this invasion is the first time there has been actual combat there.

[purebalance]

In the Illidan novel, it's stated that Demon Hunters kill a demon and consume (read: eat) its heart, in order to bind the demon's soul to the soul of the Demon Hunter.

I had actually thought this was the case, but hadn't read the novel and only heard what you said was in the novel so had no place to make this statement.

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It was their respawn point before Sargeras smashed it, he intentionally made it that so that he could contain them there.
We know therefore that Mardum can't be such a "fel saturated" area that kills demons, because otherwise Sargeras would easily have just killed them instead of imprisoning them. He created it when he wanted to destroy the demons, after all!
Illidan wasn't alive back then :P

When Sargeras abandoned the Pantheon and searched for an army to help him scour the universe of all life and prevent the efforts of the void lords and their Old God creations, he returned to Mardum. Over the eons, the prison had become bloated, the presence of countless demons warping the world into a nightmarish realm constantly bombarded by torrents of fel energy and bathing the captive demons in a sea of volatile magic.

What I meant is that this sounds exactly like what you would assume a "fel-saturated" world would be, except it clearly isn't because nothing that died on it died permanently, so it must mean something more than just "a place where a lot of demons were".
Something separates Mardum (a place a lot of demons were kept) from Argus and Nathreza (a place a lot of demons intentionally lived) which means that they can be killed permanently in one but not the other.


As an aside, demons just reappear "within the twisting nether" and not on their home planet. What exactly this means isn't entirely clear, but I imagine that after "respawning" they have to be summoned back to their homeworld rather than naturally forming there.

While it wasn't fel saturated then(since Sargeras himself created it and contained them there), it is now as it is a Burning Legion base. Any base of operations for them is fel saturated. Hell people have even said as an aside since they didn't make a 2nd cinematic to show Archimonde died in the nether(which is canonical being mythic mode) that perhaps his actions in HFC fel saturated the land enough.

Fact of the matter is that Mardum is now a legion world and it counts for demon perma death.

[Qualia]

No he cannot be summoned.

People really need to learn the difference between PORTAL and SUMMON. Sargeras can only enter via a portal. Archimonde came to HFC via a portal(that Gul'dan only redirected residual DP energies to open not of his own power). In WC3 however, Archimonde was summoned.

Why not? No one has tried to summon him yet, but I don't believe that it was stated anywhere that he can't be summoned. The only reason I see that he hasn't been summoned yet is because no one gathered enough power to summon him. Otherwise, what sets him apart from us? If we - non demon mortals - can be summoned, why can't he?

[Sanguiris]

They take their power not their soul.

As for sel saturated areas Outland SHOULD be one since its in the Twisting Nether but Blizz conveniently forgot that because it would mean no Illidan.

Well technically Illidan isn't a demon, nor is he a night elf. He's something different, something more..

[purebalance]

Why not? No one has tried to summon him yet, but I don't believe that it was stated anywhere that he can't be summoned. The only reason I see that he hasn't been summoned yet is because no one gathered enough power to summon him. Otherwise, what sets him apart from us? If we - non demon mortals - can be summoned, why can't he?

Is lock summoning as far as other people canonical is the first question you have to ask yourself. Hearthstones for example are canonical, but EXTREMELY rare. So in canon we don't all walk around with hearthstones. Every attempt to bring Sargeras here has been portal based and probably that way for a reason. To summon Archimonde which only happened once took several powerful artifacts.

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Well technically Illidan isn't a demon, nor is he a night elf. He's something different, something more..

Nope they've retracted that. His soul is demonic hence Maieve kept his body in stasis so it couldn't come back to it. He has a demon soul now and as such (sigh) demon rules apply to him.

[Sluvs]

that's not really destroying the demon's soul, it's adding more explosives to a pile of ticking time bombs.

but, they seem to have stepped on their own lore again in the demon hunter starting zone. if you sacrifice yourself, you see that you do have an immortal demon soul. but... we're on mardum. something that is a floating chunk of fel, above a planet that seems to be nothing but fel. the explosion of mardum is what infused fucking sargeras with fel.

yet our demon hunter doesn't die permanently. we just go back to our body like illidan tells us. they said that a demon dying in a fel saturated place would kill it. either that's not the case, or mardum isn't sufficiently fel saturated(i don't really understand how that could even remotely be the case), or a demon hunter's demon soul is special for some reason.

Well, it does look like a plothole. But I will say this, the mardum that we are in is just a fragment of the original. Sargeras smashed the prson when he released the demons, so there are a lot pieces of mardum floating around. You could also say that their soul as used to power the gateway, therefore sent somewhere else.

THough if we were to ask a Dev he would probably say the demon hunter soul is a bit different.

IMO it's a plothole though.

[Deleted]

if we look at the spider area of mardum, you kill the rare spider guy and the female spider demon becomes enraged saying she will avenge him. now, would she care so much if he wasn't dead for good? i don't think so, honestly.

the dh is probably just mortal enough to make it out.

That's what I was trying to say.
More than an Elf but not quite a demon.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Why not? No one has tried to summon him yet, but I don't believe that it was stated anywhere that he can't be summoned. The only reason I see that he hasn't been summoned yet is because no one gathered enough power to summon him. Otherwise, what sets him apart from us? If we - non demon mortals - can be summoned, why can't he?

His massive power is why. He is a fallen titan after all.

[Lodreh]

Pretty sure having to kill Demons in the Nether is now irrelevant because if a Demon Hunter kills the Demon they can just take their soul and fel energy and use it as their own so we can now just kill Dreadlords, Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden, Mannoroth, Moon Boy etc. wherever we want.

I feel this is a failing of the lore in the DH starting zone. No other area does this happen.

[Imnick]

They weren't killed in Marduum, were they? They were killed somewhere in the Great Dark and Sargeras somehow trapped them in the pocket dimension of Marduum. AFAIK this invasion is the first time there has been actual combat there.

He cut the planet in half with his sword and then it exploded and mutated him. Everything in it would have died at that point, and then not returned if Mardum counted as a fel-saturated area that killed demons permanently.

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While it wasn't fel saturated then(since Sargeras himself created it and contained them there), it is now as it is a Burning Legion base. Any base of operations for them is fel saturated. Hell people have even said as an aside since they didn't make a 2nd cinematic to show Archimonde died in the nether(which is canonical being mythic mode) that perhaps his actions in HFC fel saturated the land enough.

Fact of the matter is that Mardum is now a legion world and it counts for demon perma death.

It literally says "the prison had become bloated, the presence of countless demons warping the world into a nightmarish realm constantly bombarded by torrents of fel energy and bathing the captive demons in a sea of volatile magic."
It was already as fel-saturated as it was going to get at that point. It didn't get more saturated by being destroyed, at which point it would have fewer demons on it.

There's no "fact of the matter", nothing has said in game that anyone we killed on Mardum is forever dead.
They might be but they probably aren't.

[purebalance]

He cut the planet in half with his sword and then it exploded and mutated him. Everything in it would have died at that point, and then not returned if Mardum counted as a fel-saturated area that killed demons permanently.

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It literally says "the prison had become bloated, the presence of countless demons warping the world into a nightmarish realm constantly bombarded by torrents of fel energy and bathing the captive demons in a sea of volatile magic."
It was already as fel-saturated as it was going to get at that point. It didn't get more saturated by being destroyed, at which point it would have fewer demons on it.

There's no "fact of the matter", nothing has said in game that anyone we killed on Mardum is forever dead.
They might be but they probably aren't.

That's nice. They said fel saturated works. IT was clearly fel saturated when we were there as DH. Mardum is a fel world now. It was not a fel world at the time. It was still controlled by Sargeras who was not corrupted.

[Qualia]

Is lock summoning as far as other people canonical is the first question you have to ask yourself. Hearthstones for example are canonical, but EXTREMELY rare. So in canon we don't all walk around with hearthstones. Every attempt to bring Sargeras here has been portal based and probably that way for a reason. To summon Archimonde which only happened once took several powerful artifacts.

I believe that Warlock summoning is canon, though, given that Warlock class information on Bnet site stated that "Warlocks are adept at summoning their allies to their presence, whether said allies are other heroes or bloodthirsty demons.". I actually didn't count warlock's summon at first, as they open a portal there. Rather, I was thinking about the cases of Worgen being summoned, Krasus summoned Rhonin away from the battle in "Day of the Dragons", and Antonidas summoned the rest of the Kirin Tor with one hand in "Beyond the Dark Portal". I don't know if summon Sargeras is theoretically possible, or how much power it requires, but summoning non-demonic beings isn't unprecedented.

His massive power is why. He is a fallen titan after all.

Yeah, that could definitely be the reason. I was just playing with the Bumbac's hypothetical situation that we'd summon the leaders of the Legion to Warlock's class hall to kill them one by one. Of course, it's not practically possible - both that we'd need a lot of power for that, and then we'd need to defeat them at their full strength.

That's nice. They said fel saturated works. IT was clearly fel saturated when we were there as DH. Mardum is a fel world now. It was not a fel world at the time. It was still controlled by Sargeras who was not corrupted.

If current Mardum is considered saturated by Fel enough, then how did the DH character come back from dying there? Illidan told the character that we have an immortal demon soul, after all.

[Imnick]

That's nice. They said fel saturated works. IT was clearly fel saturated when we were there as DH. Mardum is a fel world now. It was not a fel world at the time. It was still controlled by Sargeras who was not corrupted.

You're just pulling this out of your ass.
The Chronicle, which is canonical, says that before it was destroyed it was overflowing with fel energy. That's literally what the word saturated means.
Clearly it was not saturated in such a way that it could permanently kill demons regardless, because they didn't die when it blew up.

The only places outside the Nether we have been told canonically, definitely, demons can be killed on are Nathreza and Argus.
As we've not been to either, and don't know what they were like, we can't compare them with Mardum. We don't know what a place that counts actually looks like, because no source has actually said that Mardum is such a place.

It was such a fel-corrupted world when Sargeras wrecked it that destroying it is what mutated him.

Again, here's what the canon says:

Over the eons, the prison had become bloated, the presence of countless demons warping the world into a nightmarish realm constantly bombarded by torrents of fel energy and bathing the captive demons in a sea of volatile magic. Sargeras tore the prison asunder, unleashing the demons and causing an explosion of violent energies that transformed him into a horrid being of endless, burning hatred.

That's before he destroyed it. It was already overflowing with fel energy, and as it was the sole place demons could respawn, contained far more demons than it did when we visited a small floating piece of it as a Demon Hunter!
So clearly there's some difference between "places that are fucked up because there have been a lot of demons" and "places where demons can actually die".


And frankly, the fact that it isn't even a planet any more is probably a large factor as well. It's a bunch of floating rocks, it's destroyed.
It isn't a "world" at all.

[Nathreim]

True. He can still be summoned, though, just like us.


It isn't inside the Twisting Nether. It's still - at very least - part of reality. They implied it back in TBC, and more recently, in the "Illidan" book too. Its position probably like Argus, hovering between the Nether and the Great Dark Beyond, but doesn't fully belong to either.

Argus is not in the nether Outland is. People say Outland is only floating on the Nether as if that means something. If you're floating in water you are still IN the water.

Argus while fel corrupted is not in the Nether Outland is because the magic of the hundreds of portals tore a hole in reality and sundered the planet sending Outland into a different reality.

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Well technically Illidan isn't a demon, nor is he a night elf. He's something different, something more..

Yeah he is. A demon is any creature with a soul rooted in the nether through fel magic.

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In the Illidan novel, it's stated that Demon Hunters kill a demon and consume (read: eat) its heart, in order to bind the demon's soul to the soul of the Demon Hunter.

You must have missed the part when the MC realized their was never a different demons soul inside him it was his own soul that had turned demonic.