Illegal Immigration

[Barnabas]

Essentially what it comes down to is that the view that most Americans have of immigration is completely skewed because of the government's long standing policy of preferentially admitting Europeans for the blatant purpose of skewing the demographic balance to be more white. The patterns of migration that we have seen since we adopted fairer immigration policies essentially reflect what America should have looked like all along. It is pretty tough for some people to wrap their heads around the idea that the 70-80% white America they were used to was an unsustainable construct propped up only by racist immigration laws, but that is the truth.

I just want citizens and here you are turning it into race.

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam...t-TableIII.pdf

[sarahtasher]

I just want citizens and here you are turning it into race.

Sure, people are not raging about Hispanic citizens that vote Democrat Sure

[Barnabas]

Sure, people are not raging about Hispanic citizens that vote Democrat Sure

Hey if they are citizens and want to vote in "institutional racism" then by all means. Have fun being arrested, beaten, shot and pulled over more because of your race. It also affects you financially as well in the form of more expensive loans etc. Just keep the blame in your party though.

[Macaquerie]

I just want citizens and here you are turning it into race.

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam...t-TableIII.pdf

Children of illegal immigrants are citizens, are they the same in your eyes as your own children?

[nanook12]

There is no doubt that there are some more rural areas where some jobs have far more applicants than available positions, of course, it's not 100% equal. That's not the same as his alarmist ranting that illegal immigrants here are preventing people from getting jobs. More people = more consumption = more tax revenue = more jobs needed to support.

You are assuming that demand and job creation rates have a 1 to 1 correspondence when in reality they do not. For ever 2 new immigrants in the country only 1 new jobs is created leading to a net loss of jobs for the total populace.

http://cis.org/for-every-new-job-two-new-immigrants

Also read this!
http://cis.org/all-employment-growth...-to-immigrants

My case rests. I have covered all bases that I know of. If all the links I have provided in this thread doesn't make it clear that illegal immigration is harmful to jobs for native Americans, then I don't know what will.

- - - Updated - - -

Children of illegal immigrants are citizens, are they the same in your eyes as your own children?

They are more of an exploitation of the 14th amendment by their illegal parents.

[kail]

You are assuming that demand and job creation rates have a 1 to 1 correspondence when in reality they do not. For ever 2 new immigrants in the country only 1 new jobs is created leading to a net loss of jobs for the total populace.

Of course it won't. 100% employment rate is practically impossible, even more so when production is becoming more efficient. The sources you linked is related with all migration (legal and illegal) and simply reflects population growth. And that's mostly what they are, a population growth.

Mass deporting them would actually lead to a negative impact to our economy as a whole. In the end, the hate towards illegal immigrants (or any immigrants) is very predispositioned and unreasonable. The only difference between an illegal and a citizen is the paperwork.

https://www.oecd.org/migration/mig/O...Numero%202.pdf

[nanook12]

Of course it won't. 100% employment rate is practically impossible, even more so when production is becoming more efficient. The sources you linked is related with all migration (legal and illegal) and simply reflects population growth. And that's mostly what they are, a population growth.

Mass deporting them would actually lead to a negative impact to our economy as a whole. In the end, the hate towards illegal immigrants (or any immigrants) is very predispositioned and unreasonable. The only difference between an illegal and a citizen is the paperwork.

https://www.oecd.org/migration/mig/O...Numero%202.pdf

I respectfully disagree. I hold firm in the majority of studies do support the notion that both illegal immigration and over immigration contribute more harm than good to a society. This is not a matter of hate, this is a matter of stoic acceptance of the hard facts that lay before us. The world is not all rainbows and butterfly some facts are very difficult to swallow, but they are still true nonetheless.

[May90]

I respectfully disagree. I hold firm in the majority of studies do support the notion that both illegal immigration and over immigration contribute more harm than good to a society. This is not a matter of hate, this is a matter of stoic acceptance of the hard facts that lay before us. The world is not all rainbows and butterfly some facts are very difficult to swallow, but they are still true nonetheless.

Even these "facts" you laid out are a matter of debate, and a lot of those claims rely on the confusion between causation and correlation. I can find you just as many "facts" on the Internet confirming that illegal immigration, let alone legal one, does much more good than harm. What is the reality? The reality is complicated, it doesn't allow for description in terms of "good" or "bad".

One thing I recommend you do is research what immigration is all about. Why do top countries encourage massive immigration? There is a variety of reasons, but they are all based on the same idea: diversity is an essential component in a society desiring to move forward.

Is illegal immigration a negative thing? Probably, yes, it is definitely worse than legal immigration. Does illegal immigration harm the American economy more than it benefits it though? Even if so, the impact doesn't appear to be significant. While the impact of attempting to deport all illegal immigrants... Well, that would be pretty catastrophic.

[zenkai]

So why become a citizen if you pay more? Wouldn't it be better to remain in limbo if it benefits you more?

There is your answer in bold, benefits, that is why they would want to become a US citizen.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course it won't. 100% employment rate is practically impossible, even more so when production is becoming more efficient. The sources you linked is related with all migration (legal and illegal) and simply reflects population growth. And that's mostly what they are, a population growth.

Mass deporting them would actually lead to a negative impact to our economy as a whole. In the end, the hate towards illegal immigrants (or any immigrants) is very predispositioned and unreasonable. The only difference between an illegal and a citizen is the paperwork.

https://www.oecd.org/migration/mig/O...Numero%202.pdf

Try using less rhetoric in your post. No one is saying they are against immigration so your last argument is ignorant. Illegal immigration hurts the economy, worse you're advocating people living on slave wage labor.

The only difference between an illegal and a citizen is the paperwork.

No, that's not even remotely true, doing the paper works helps weed out the people would be nothing but a burden on society, or worse could be a criminal threat.

[May90]

There is your answer in bold, benefits, that is why they would want to become a US citizen.

As I understand, a much bigger reason is that, while they don't have a legal status, they can be deported at any moment, if their status is found out. Plus, at this stage you are pretty much blocked from pursuing any kind of meaningful career and are stuck working low paid jobs.

[zenkai]

As I understand, a much bigger reason is that, while they don't have a legal status, they can be deported at any moment, if their status is found out. Plus, at this stage you are pretty much blocked from pursuing any kind of meaningful career and are stuck working low paid jobs.

That's why they should enter legally or stay in their country.

[May90]

That's why they should enter legally or stay in their country.

That's irrelevant with regards to people who are already in the country illegally. Why they do what they do is another matter.

[tankbug]

- Poor, uneducated people get lots of kids. When immigrants aren't all poor and uneducated anymore, they will not continue to have lots of kids.
- Robots will destroy the market for unskilled labor (amongst others), so they will not be able to "steal" non-existing jobs in the future. This will probably slow down illegal immigration.

[zenkai]

That's irrelevant with regards to people who are already in the country illegally. Why they do what they do is another matter.

It's even more relevant, this isn't "oh you broke the law but if you aren't caught in a certain amount of time you get off scott free". Anyone here illegally should be deported, they already show they have 0 respect for our laws. Rewarding people who break our laws does nothing but encourage others to do the same.

[Gorgodeus]

- Poor, uneducated people get lots of kids. When immigrants aren't all poor and uneducated anymore, they will not continue to have lots of kids.
- Robots will destroy the market for unskilled labor (amongst others), so they will not be able to "steal" non-existing jobs in the future. This will probably slow down illegal immigration.

It slowed down several years ago. More are leaving the country than entering it, and it has been this way each year for the past several years. There are roughly 3 million fewer illegal immigrants now than before.

[Kraenen]

That's irrelevant with regards to people who are already in the country illegally. Why they do what they do is another matter.

This may sound naive but they should just leave the country and say "sorry, we broke into your country, we'll go back home". I mean if they don't respect the country like that what business do they have?

[May90]

It's even more relevant, this isn't "oh you broke the law but if you aren't caught in a certain amount of time you get off scott free". Anyone here illegally should be deported, they already show they have 0 respect for our laws. Rewarding people who break our laws does nothing but encourage others to do the same.

Nobody is rewarding them. But you aren't going to deport them all anyway, without turning the country into an Orwellian state, with checks for IDs every 50 meters. So we might as well deal with their impact on the economy, without all this pointless idealism.

This may sound naive but they should just leave the country and say "sorry, we broke into your country, we'll go back home". I mean if they don't respect the country like that what business do they have?

Well, they don't think they should do that.

[zenkai]

It slowed down several years ago. More are leaving the country than entering it, and it has been this way each year for the past several years. There are roughly 3 million fewer illegal immigrants now than before.

Reminds me of that southpark episode were the government screwed our country up so much they all started migrating back lol .

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody is rewarding them. But you aren't going to deport them all anyway, without turning the country into an Orwellian state, with checks for IDs every 50 meters. So we might as well deal with their impact on the economy, without all this pointless idealism.


Well, they don't think they should do that.

If you give them legal status you are. I am not saying start checking every-ones green card, I am saying though it can easily be fixed by punishing those who hire them or lets them attend school.

I will give you a good example this actually happened last month in my town.

This guy in my town owns 2 Mexican restaurants, the other day I was eating there, he wasn't at the front taking money, he was in the kitchen cooking, I thought wow he must have been short staffed. Turns out he got raided in the INS or what ever the new acronym for them is these days.

What was his punishment? It wasn't jail time. Was it a fine? If it was I bet it was less than what he saved in labor. It will only be a matter of time before he gets more, at least my meals there are cheap compared to other local restaurants, yay slave labor wages. /sarcasm. When you hire anyone illegal, not only can you charge cheaper wages, you don't have to pay insurance on them.

[May90]

If you give them legal status you are. I am not saying start checking every-ones green card, I am saying though it can easily be fixed by punishing those who hire them or lets them attend school.

I will give you a good example this actually happened last month in my town.

This guy in my town owns 2 Mexican restaurants, the other day I was eating there, he wasn't at the front taking money, he was in the kitchen cooking, I thought wow he must have been short staffed. Turns out he got raided in the INS or what ever the new acronym for them is these days.

What was his punishment? It wasn't jail time. Was it a fine? If it was I bet it was less than what he saved in labor. It will only be a matter of time before he gets more, at least my meals there are cheap compared to other local restaurants, yay slave labor wages. /sarcasm. When you hire anyone illegal, not only can you charge cheaper wages, you don't have to pay insurance on them.

I see your point. I can agree that the system can be revamped, so less illegal immigrants stay in the country at a time. I don't think it should be a priority of the government or anything, but, indeed, it can be done.

[DeadmanWalking]

Illegal immigration can be resolved without building a wall or deporting a single person.

You put people who give illegals jobs in prison and the jobs will dry up and they will chose to return to their home country of origin.

Illegals don't steal jobs, that is just rhetoric which sounds great, the reality is Americans give them jobs because they don't want to pay another American a fair wage for services. Stop fining people for hiring illegals and put some asses in prison, jobs will dry up fast for illegals. If a company gets fined $10,000 for hiring illegals but they save $25,000 a year hiring them then it only makes fiscal sense to continue to break the law. They are still saving $15,000 a year.

They come here because as one Illegal told me, "I can work for 6 months and buy an 8 inch black and white TV or come here and work for 6 weeks and buy a 90 inch HD color TV." Basically this is where the money is and to them it is a no-brainer to go where the money is. Make the money go away and the problem resolves itself without needing to spend billions of dollars for infinity to build and maintain a wall and forces to patrol it.

Problem solved, but people only want to punish brown people, not business men.